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        General >> Problems >> Cooling fans dont run
        
(Message started by: Terje on Feb 2^nd, 2007, 3:41pm)

Title: Cooling fans dont run
Post by Terje on Feb 2^nd, 2007, 3:41pm

Hi, Thanks for this site, it's great, thanks to it i have now been able to fix my problems with the heater blower.

Now I also have another problem.
My cooling fans do not run at all, my car is a DOCH 2.0 95 Classic model. As sayd it newer runs, even if the engine is really hot. I have checked all the nessesery fuses (37, 40) and replaced a couple of relays (R34), no help. I've also replaced the ECT. No help unfortuantly.

Unfortuantly i dont have an volt meter to messure the ECT.

I have also taken a close look at the Multiplugs, but again i have no test lamp or volt meter to see if it actually gives out any voltage.

Anyone have any ideas or suggestion on howto troubleshoot further.

NB. Sorry about my english spelling.

Again thanks alot for the service you guys deliver!

Title: Re: Cooling fans dont run
Post by scorpio_man on Feb 2^nd, 2007, 8:16pm

hi there

this might help a bit.

http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/coolfans.htm

hth

Title: Re: Cooling fans dont run
Post by jonnycab on Feb 3^rd, 2007, 1:52am

Hi there, & welcome to the site

Is the engine over heating ?......if not, then are you sure that the fans aren't working ?.....They are very quiet (I never hear mine) ;)

Also, have you tried pulling the multiplug off the ECT whilst the engine is running. The fans should come on at full speed after a few seconds :)

Title: Re: Cooling fans dont run
Post by Terje on Feb 4^th, 2007, 2:53am

Hi, no the engine is not overheating, so possibly it's simply that I newer check the fans in the right time and that they are endeed working.

Thanks for both suggestions

EDIT: I will try to remove the multiplug for the ECT later today to see if they start spinning up for me :)

Title: Re: Cooling fans dont run
Post by sector-9 on Feb 5^th, 2007, 5:30pm

There are two thin wires connecting the big green relay to the ECU (black/red and black/green I think) - ground either one of them to bring the fans on.

Alternatively, if you have air conditioning, just switch that on and the fans will either start up straight away or a short while later.

Darren

Title: Re: Cooling fans dont run
Post by DazRSK on Feb 7^th, 2007, 2:31pm

Terje - you mention that you have checked fuses 37 & 40. Have you also checked fuse no. 39 ?

One thing I would suggest - I had an issue with my fans packing up last year. I didn't actually know they had packed up until I saw a dangerous needle in the temp guage. Until that time, I assumed that the fans worked but never had I observed them work - except for when on aircon. It was only when I went into the tescos to fill up on one occasion and I then had to wait for the mrs to come out of the shop, I realised a cooling fan issue - and that was after 20-25 mins of idling.

So the fact that your car is not overheating - don't be too surprised if the coolant isn't reaching a temp that triggers the fans into motion.

As Darren suggests - put the aircon on as this enforces both fans to turn at slower speed.

If not, check the relay behind the o/s front light and take it out of its housing. It's easier if you undo the fixing screw and pull it away from inner wing.

You should find 2 permanent lives - if you don't, either one of both fuses 37 & 39 have given up or the wiring from the fusebox to relay has shorted / severed / is causing the issue.

Sorry - cannot remember the colour codes on the wires - once you have established the 2 permanent lives, there is a thick black (earth) and another thick wire (which is a switch live) which also feed into the relay. Make up a link wire and connect one permanent live to the switch live wire to test the remainder of the circuit to the fans. Check the other permanent against the switch wire - you should notice a difference between the permanents - slow and fast speed fans.

If still no joy - take the multiplugs off the back of each fan and directly connect live and earth to the battery. This should isolate whether the fans have had their best days.

Good luck - I had to daignose / do all of this on cold (and sometimes wet) nights in November - not much fun.

Title: Re: Cooling fans dont run
Post by Terje on Feb 15^th, 2007, 10:43pm

on 02/07/07 at 14:31:35, DazRSK wrote:

If not, check the relay behind the o/s front light and take it out of its housing. It's easier if you undo the fixing screw and pull it away from inner wing.

You should find 2 permanent lives - if you don't, either one of both fuses 37 & 39 have given up or the wiring from the fusebox to relay has shorted / severed / is causing the issue.
.

I can't find the relay you are mentioning, excactly where is it located ?

I can add that I have endeed checked all fuses mentioned in this post, to be honest I have checked all the fuses there are, just to make sure i don't have other problems to.

My car has been on for 45 minuttes with my heating fan on (no ac)... Nothing happends..

I tryed to spin the fans with my hands, the one fan where almost "locked" indicating to me that these fans haven't been spinning for a long time.

Also, i dont know if this matters but the thick "hose" leading water on battery side (LHD) is very hot, The thick hose on the driver side (the one all down in the bottom) is cold.

I even tryed to disconnect the hotplug for the ECT module, and this did nothing.

Where do I go from here?
And where do i find that relay ?

Thanks alot for all the help given so far.. great!

Title: Re: Cooling fans dont run
Post by pappa on Feb 16^th, 2007, 6:47am

Hi, I have a problem with my cooling fans too and it is yet to be sorted out. I got some
very good advice from this site. Now all I need is the time to dig into the car.
Fortunately it is winter and my cooling fans work when the A/C is turned on.

The temperature difference between upper and lower water hoses could indicate
a clocked (stuck) thermostat. I'm not sure about it, but that would be worth checking.
It doesn't solve the mystery of the fans not working, because to my knowledge the
temp sencors for that are on top of the engine and they should tell the ECU when the engine is hot.
How is your temp needle reading?
Will it go above halfway? Mine never does even though the OBDII is showing engine
temperatures above 93C if I leave it running idle and the A/C (the fans) is not
turned on.
The relay is located - looking nose to nose your car - behind the left headlamp
(for U.K. it means on the driver side and for the rest of the Europe it's the passenger
side). And usually it is so dirty that it looks more grey than green.
It is screwed into the body, lying there on it's back.

Good luck!

Title: Re: Cooling fans dont run
Post by Terje on Feb 16^th, 2007, 7:20am

My temp needle newer goes over half.... rarely even up to half.

When I started troubleshooting this problem a good while ago I did endeed find a blown fuse, I beleive it was fuse 40 or 37, cant really remember. But that fuse have been replaced and rechecked again and again.

Title: Re: Cooling fans dont run
Post by pappa on Feb 16^th, 2007, 9:15am

Terje, try following this link, there's quite a lot of information on what to try:

http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=Problems;action=display;num=1164910109

Title: Re: Cooling fans dont run
Post by Terje on Feb 16^th, 2007, 10:41am

Thanks for all the tips.

So i have just connected live wires from the battery to the first multiplug (disconnected it and connected the live wires) The fans emediatly started running.

Now, since im pretty clueless to cars I dont really know what that tells me other than the fans there selves are ok

Can anyone please suggest the next step to test? :)

Title: Re: Cooling fans dont run
Post by Kjetil S on Feb 16^th, 2007, 11:17am

on 02/16/07 at 07:20:38, Terje wrote:

My temp needle newer goes over half.... rarely even up to half.

Couldn't that be the reason for the fans not running?
(The fans won't come on until the temp is creeping above "normal" (which I believe is somewhere around 90-100 degrees, but I may be wrong).
Personally, I would check the thermostat.

Title: Re: Cooling fans dont run
Post by Terje on Feb 16^th, 2007, 1:20pm

on 02/16/07 at 11:17:16, Kjetil S wrote:

It's possible, I don't really know, all i know is that i drive atleast 1 hour rush traffic every day, driving in slow moving traffic would trigger the fans sometimes wouldent it? As i described earlyer when spinning one of the fans with my hands it seemed it had not been spinned for a long while as it gave more resistance than it should.

Title: Re: Cooling fans dont run
Post by pappa on Feb 17^th, 2007, 7:30pm

Terje, if you could get it scanned - the scanning would tell if the temp is rising enough to trigger
the fans. In my car the coolant temp goes well above 93C if I run it on idle and the A/C is not
turned on (the fans are silent). The temp needle stays the halfway even though the OBD scanner
is saying that coolant is 93C. If I ground the temp gauge lead, the needle goes all the way
up to super hot and the fans don't do anything. So I would not trust the temp needle on this one.
I have changed the thermostat on my car, it had the ballooned rad.

I'm going to follow the link I sent earlier for you and try all the advice given in it. First thing
to do when I get the time for it.

Title: Re: Cooling fans dont run
Post by DazRSK on Feb 21^st, 2007, 12:47pm

Sorry guys - I have only just picked this up.

Right - the relay that you are looking for is just behind the offside (or as you sit in the car - the right hand side) headlamp. Open the bonnet and you should see this sitting on top of the inner wing, at the very front, to the rear of the headlamp. The screw I mention to release the relay - you need a long screwdriver as the washer bottle filler is obstructing clear accessibility of the screw.

Terje - guessing from your user name and other things I have noticed - are you in the UK or are you driving a left hand drive car ? Apologies if I have got this wrong - but just in case you are, just check that Ford did not change the layout of the car in a different way for left hand drive vehicles and that the washer bottle and the relay is not on the other wing behind the other headlamp. It is unusual of Ford to change the cars significantly for left and right hand drive vehicles - but you never know.

The other thing I have picked up here - and probably is a big indicator as to why your fans are not working - you state that the top of the rediator is hot but the bottom is cold. There is something not right with the coolant flow there and I would have this checked out. I agree that the purpose of the radiator is meant to cool the water, however, when idling and the temperature guage is reaching the normal / near normal mark, the top and bottom of the radiator (and top and bottom hoses) should be nearly the same temperature.

My TD has a switch halfway down the radiator which registers the temperature and sets the fans in motion via this. I know that the other Scorpio variants do not have this switch - but there would be a temperature reading taken from the radiator / coolant somewhere. Could this all be part of the issue with yours - the fan temperature reader (and more seriously - your temp guage in the car) maybe permanently in a cold spot / cool spot because the coolant is not flowing around properly - meaning that both are getting false readings ?

Not trying to alarm you - but just a thought.

Title: Re: Cooling fans dont run
Post by DazRSK on Feb 21^st, 2007, 12:52pm

Just another thought - when you put the heater on full heat, how hot is it ? This is a very difficult thing to guage as I realise different people have different understanding of heat.

When my car started overheating, due to the fans not working, I was using the car heater to add assistance to cool the engine. The air blowing out of the vents was burning hot. What is yours like ?

This gives a vague indicator that the coolant in flowing around OK. If it is cold - then you do have a problem.

Title: Re: Cooling fans dont run
Post by Terje on Feb 22^nd, 2007, 1:56am

Ok, so I have tried some different things here, and finally I have gotten only one of the fans working, so atleast one is working, it was my understanding that the one would not work without the other!? but atleast in my car it does.

And by the way, i live in the hard and cold winterland Norway, so I have a left hand drive.

Now, thanks alot for all your tips and assistanse, i am very greatfull. btw don't ask me how I got the one fan spinning again, but I did. .. I sprayed alot of WD40 in multiplugs and cleaned of all the corrosion where the ground where connected, possibly this was what got my one fan spinning again.

Title: Re: Cooling fans dont run
Post by jenks on Feb 23^rd, 2007, 9:50pm

dunno if anyones mentioned this (sorry if they already have) but when i first got my car i noticed the wiring from one of the fans had come away from its "trunking" on the fan mounting and was being melted/worn through by something else - your wiring all in the right place??