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        General >> Problems >> HELP! again! :( speedo/gear changing/tacho/stallin
        
(Message started by: jenks on Feb 12^th, 2007, 5:30pm)

Title: HELP! again! :( speedo/gear changing/tacho/stallin
Post by jenks on Feb 12^th, 2007, 5:30pm

hi guys,
As i mentioned to you before about the car driving but wont change up into 4th gear, whilst this is happening the speedo is sat at 0mph when moving.
Some suggested a VSS (What is this???? mechanic doesnt know what it is) others said about gearbox working on vacuum for 4th gear.

OK heres the symptoms etc;
Started happening whilst driving along speedo just dropped off. A long time before the tacho started dancing about. Tacho still dances about now and speedo is dead - hence computer thinks car is stationary which might be why it stalled whilst going along at 60mph the other day whilst speedo was dead. Odo doesnt count so guess computer thinks car is stationary.
Linked with this is the fact that its much more difficult mainly impossible to get 4th gear whilst this is all going on.
I disconnected the battery and replaced it because it didnt seem to hold the charge and I went out to it one morning and had no power.
So got new battery put that in and was fine for about 3 weeks. Then out of blue it all happened again!! Then on motorway speedo came back and all was fine, then about 50 mles later its gone again.

Now i have no 4th gear intimittently, no speedo, car stalls (rarely), tacho dances.
Someone said in a different post that the needles dance with low power coming from battery - but mines new so would all this be down to some other electrical component perhaps the alternator?! I'm thinking electrical problem because its all linked with the speedo dropping off.
I can live with a dancing tacho but not going along on the motorway and not knowing how fast im going and having the risk of a stall! Not to mention the fuel economy and engine stress of having no top gear available.

Sorry to waffle on but wanted to explain best i could.
All your help in the past has been invaluable and i thank you all in advance for your help, thats what makes this site the best of all owners clubs for any vehicle!

cheers peeps

Chris

ps. looking fwd to sorting this out and getting my scorp back ;D so i dont have to drive other halfs fiat punto >:(

Title: Re: HELP! again! :( speedo/gear changing/tacho/sta
Post by scorpio_man on Feb 12^th, 2007, 5:37pm

hi there

most of the gearbox issue can be pointed to a faulty vss.
see it here. (http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/manual/autotrans/RenewDrivePinion.pdf)

fix this first, then look at the other things.

hth

Title: Re: HELP! again! :( speedo/gear changing/tacho/sta
Post by Highlander on Feb 12^th, 2007, 5:39pm

on 02/12/07 at 17:30:42, jenks wrote:

Some suggested a VSS (What is this???? mechanic doesnt know what it is)

GET ANOTHER MECHANIC!!! ;D

Title: Re: HELP! again! :( speedo/gear changing/tacho/sta
Post by TiberiuS on Feb 12^th, 2007, 6:09pm

Ditto on the VSS, this will also cause loss of overdrive (overdrive is electronic, no vacuum involved ;)). If you're getting a dead battery, get it checked for current drain - sometimes one of the modules can go wayward and cause grief, or you might have a dodgy or shorting loom.

Regards, Bruce.

Title: Re: HELP! again! :( speedo/gear changing/tacho/sta
Post by jenks on Feb 12^th, 2007, 9:15pm

great and can i get a new vss unit from ford? from one of you guys? or is it a scrap yard job?

Title: Re: HELP! again! :( speedo/gear changing/tacho/sta
Post by jenks on Feb 12^th, 2007, 9:15pm

mines a 12v 2.9 think it is vacuum on mine bruce - others aren;t (so i was told anyway)

Title: Re: HELP! again! :( speedo/gear changing/tacho/sta
Post by mike on Feb 12^th, 2007, 11:40pm

2.9 12V gearbox management is carried over from granada: first three gears are controlled by vacuum and governor while overdrive and torque converter clutch are electronically controlled by EECIV via solenoids.
All your symptoms point to a faulty VSS (Vehicle Speed Sensor). This thing lives on the extension at the back of the gearbox and is held by a single 10mm (?) bolt. Replacement is a 5mn job if you can crawl under the car.
Mike

Title: Re: HELP! again! :( speedo/gear changing/tacho/sta
Post by jenks on Feb 15^th, 2007, 6:48pm

hi guys, well 65 quid later i now have a new VSS that i fitted myself - took me quite a bit longer than 5 mins ha ha im no mechanic obviously.
Problem still exists only now the speedo is a little more lively - the tacho still dances, and speedo randomly goes to 90-mph and to 140mph whilst idle or moving very slowly - honest gov.

On inspection the gearbox oil seems very high - almost a centimetre above the max mark. im checking it having gone up and down through the gearbox 3 times with the engine running then switching off - correct so i'm told but pls correct me if wrong!
I'd love to hear from you guys, it appears to me that you on here know more about the car than anyone else even ford mechanics.
Could this high oil level be my problem??

Cheers,
Chris

Title: Re: HELP! again! :( speedo/gear changing/tacho/sta
Post by jenks on Feb 15^th, 2007, 6:49pm

and if yes - wheres the drain plug to get the bloody stuff out!?! >:(

Title: Re: HELP! again! :( speedo/gear changing/tacho/sta
Post by Snoopy on Feb 16^th, 2007, 8:30am

The correct method of checking the oil level in the AUTO BOX is ....

get it HOT then put through the gears two or three times and then into PARK.

LEAVE THE ENGINE RUNNING and check level.. and of course the car should be on level ground. but the engine MUST be running and up to working temp , otherwise you will get a false reading.

There are no drain plugs on the auto box the only way to get some oil out is to disconect one of the cooler pipes and runn the engine and collect the over fill if that is the cause.....
You symptom do sound like either the VSS or a wiring fault.

Title: Re: HELP! again! :( speedo/gear changing/tacho/sta
Post by jenks on Feb 16^th, 2007, 4:31pm

thanks for the advice dave, I was checking the level right and have spoken to various mechanics now who dont think the level is really an issue. We're onto the type now. One motorfactors says CTV oil and the other says dextron 2 ATF oil. Apparently CTV is a manual gearbox oil - this is the stuff i topped up with as advised correct stuff by the first motorfactors. Now mechanic saying wrong oil and may have screwed gearbox. aaggggggggggggghhhhhh!!

The speedo thing started a while a go, is intermittent and sometimes the needle wallows around the clock like a dodgy electrical connection could be at fault. If im going to check wiring is there anywhere obvious to look first? I am getting the vss wiring checked to make sure thats all ok, if it is i guess im then looking at wiring earthing out because the insulations melted or something?

Or is it best to just take it to an auto elctrician and pay through the nose for diagnostics etcetc?
Problem is really frustrating and because of the lack of 4th gear is making car VERY expensive to run, PLEASE help- dont wanna scrap her yet!! :(

Title: Re: HELP! again! :( speedo/gear changing/tacho/sta
Post by tintin on Feb 16^th, 2007, 4:58pm

Hi mate,

Sorry to hear of your woes, this is more of a support message than anything useful.

Firstly, there are a few guys on here which know all about autoboxes. Im sure given the new information they can tell you what effect the wrong oil will have, and if this would be causing these symptoms, or if the electrics were suspect.

Secondly, i thought it was the end when my box lost drive. I managed to get another good s/h box from someone on this forum, and had it fitted (by an autobox specialist), about £350 all in, so hopefully not a write-off if yours is broken.

Hope it works out for you,

Title: Re: HELP! again! :( speedo/gear changing/tacho/sta
Post by jenks on Feb 16^th, 2007, 5:09pm

thanks mate - i tell you one thing if it weren't for the experts and the like minded people on here who recognise a decent spec for the money, i'd have probably taken everyones advice - "time to get rid of it it isn't it"!
Your right of course, its not the end of the world and I'll get it sorted, these pessimists don't know what its like to drive the scorp so dont appreciate why we put up with these niggly things that go wrong. All part of the character of the car I guess!

Love it - and show me another car that has such a following as the scorp does right here!

Title: Re: HELP! again! :( speedo/gear changing/tacho/sta
Post by mike on Feb 16^th, 2007, 6:19pm

Sorry to read your problems are still there!
If you put manual gearbox oil in the auto you will have to drop the pan and even flush it as described in http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/aboxfilters.htm.
How much of the stuff did that top up take?
The right fluid is Dexron II or better Dexron III.
Re your electrical troubles: are you sure your new battery is not defective? It is strange that both your speedo and tacho are affected.
Don't scrap it yet! I'm sure it can be sorted out. :)
Cheers, Mike

Title: Re: HELP! again! :( speedo/gear changing/tacho/sta
Post by fordloon52 on Feb 17^th, 2007, 7:34pm

Hi Chris, I just fixed the same problem on my 24V today. It was a high resistance connection in connector 113. That is the square block under the power steering reservoir. Pull the reservoir up to dismount and lay it out of the way so you can access the 10mm bolt in the center of the connector. Undo the bolt and the connector comes apart. Swill out the inside with carb cleaner or contact cleaner. When it's nice and clean and dry reconnect and take your car for a drive. Mount the reservoir before you do. If that's fixed it you need to get hold of some connector grease, from Ford. disassemle the connector again and grease up. Hope this helps
Paul

Title: Re: HELP! again! :( speedo/gear changing/tacho/sta
Post by jenks on Feb 17^th, 2007, 8:17pm

thanks paul sounds like a pretty good shout mate! will try that.

Watch this whole gearbox oil issue cos that manual oil was what motaquip supplied for my car and they still maintain it's what their book states is correct for my AUTOMATIC box! stupid prats.

Title: Re: HELP! again! :( speedo/gear changing/tacho/sta
Post by scorpdane on Feb 20^th, 2007, 8:27am

Hi jenks & fordloon52. Having the same problems as you jenks. I have also swilled the connectors, unfort. with no effect!! Any other suggestions?? What about the fusebox?

Title: Re: HELP! again! :( speedo/gear changing/tacho/sta
Post by jenks on Feb 20^th, 2007, 6:52pm

hey scorpdane, i too have tried the connector clean and no such luck. Its starting to cost me a fiar bit now too.

Sorry to bleat on about this guys but you (the experts among us) are the only people i can turn to.
So far I have fitted a new VSS, cleaned this connector block as fordloon suggested and dumped all the gear oil and refilled. STILL the speedo drops off to zero. Tacho is (and always has been) dancing still but dont think the two are neccessarily connected. PLEASE help guys nearly at the end of my tether could it be the signal getting to and from the vss???

Title: Re: HELP! again! :( speedo/gear changing/tacho/sta
Post by jenks on Feb 20^th, 2007, 7:10pm

if your fusebox is dry then i cant see it would be that scorpdane, if it were a fuse that had blown the speedo wouldnt work at all. Mine drops after 5 miles approx, and comes back for 5 miles half an hour later so this is an intermittent electrical problem which is why i think its a bad earth or connection somewhere i just dont know where to look next!

Title: Re: HELP! again! :( speedo/gear changing/tacho/sta
Post by mike on Feb 20^th, 2007, 9:02pm

There should be 3 wires issuing from the VSS connector. One (black) goes to ground, one (white/red?) to pin 3 of the ECU and one (violet?) to fuse 37 in the battery fusebox.
How about checking these connections?
Keep the spirit high!
Cheers, Mike

Title: Re: HELP! again! :( speedo/gear changing/tacho/sta
Post by jenks on Feb 23^rd, 2007, 10:03pm

I tell ye these bleeding cars have a mind of their own i swear they are really alive. huhu,m anyway, now ladies and gents the car will run FINE one day, all day, then the next day the speedo drops to zero again, ONLY this time we have 4th gear (since i changed the fluid i think) but to get 4th one has to be very sheepish on the throttle at first.
The wiring you suggest mike seems fine :( so no luck there.

Has everyone drawn a blank on this one?
I urgently need to get this sorted as today i was on the motorway (in germany of course mr policeman) pacing a BMW in front (as i dont have a speedo) and all of a sudden speedo works for ten mins initially showing up to be doing 110mph (i swear it felt more like 80) anyway - cant afford to loose licence.

Cheers for your ideas
Chris

Title: Re: HELP! again! :( speedo/gear changing/tacho/sta
Post by scorpdane on Mar 12^th, 2007, 12:17am

Hej Guys.
Last week all driving was done in third. Tonight it was washed. Suddenly 4.th was back. But speedo at zero and no tacho. During start the warning for low petrol comes on, even though tank is full!!

Title: Re: HELP! again! :( speedo/gear changing/tacho/sta
Post by scorpdane on Mar 14^th, 2007, 11:16pm

Hi - sorry - on & on.
Now the d... thing runs well again, except the speedo. When pressing the brake: speedo goes to zero.
How come?

Title: Re: HELP! again! :( speedo/gear changing/tacho/sta
Post by dogma on Mar 14^th, 2007, 11:29pm

Hi mate, i know little about the autobox but would a full diagnostic be a good idea. With regards to stalling and the tacho dancing, i had the same problem and it was throttle idle valve, i cleaned it out with carb cleaner and although its stillnot perfect the stalling stopped and the tacho is nearly perfect, sorry i cant be much more help, just an idea
jim :'(