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Title: NEW.SCORPIO 2.9 12V ULTIMA PROBLEMS, HELP Post by dogma on Feb 18th, 2007, 4:52pm HI, IM NEW TO THIS SITE AND YOU ALL SEEM TO KNOW WHAT YOUR TALKING ABOUT SO PLEASE HELP HAHA. I SAVED UP MY PENNIES AND BOUGHT A P REG SCORPIO 2.9 12V ULTIMA AUTO. GREAT CONDITION BUT ONCE ID PICKED IT UP I NOTICED IT WAS VEY LOW ON FUEL, I FILLED IT UP ABOUT HALF WAY AND ONCE HOME I NOTICED THAT IT WOULD TICK OVED AT AROUND 500 RPM FOR APROX 2 SECS THEN UP TO 1000RPM FOR 2 SECS THEN BACK TO 500 RPM. I TOOK IT OUT FOR A DRIVE AND WHILE WAITING AT A JUNCTION IN D AND FOOT BRAKE ON IT STALLED AND TOOK A BIT TO RESTART :o. ABOUT 5 MILES LATER WHILE GOING DOWN A HILL IT AGAIN STALLED AND THANKS TO ANOTHER SCORPIO DRIVER HELPING ME PUSH IT OUT THE ROAD IT ONCE AGAIN STARTED:-[. I GOT HER HOME AND NOTICED THE STRANGE TICK OVER LISTED ABOVE. IT ALSO IS A BIT SLOW ON ACCELERATION AND TOOK AGES TO REACH 80 MPH NOT THAT I SPEED LOL.I HAVE CHECKED THE PLUGS AND AIR FILTER WHICH SEEM OK. IF ANYONE CAN HELP ID HAPPILLY BUY YOU A BEER. MANY THANKS[font=Verdana][/font] |
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Title: Re: NEW.SCORPIO 2.9 12V ULTIMA PROBLEMS, HELP Post by TiberiuS on Feb 18th, 2007, 5:54pm Hello mate, don't panic ;) Had a similar idle problem on my 2.3 16v at one point, when cold it would start to hunt then gradually get worse until it stalled. Cured it when I did some work on the throttle body, this may well be where your problem is. The idle speed control valve and the throttle position sensor are sometimes culprits, could also be a leaking vacuum hose although I'm not sure about the 12v ;). Hope this helps. Regards, Bruce. |
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Title: Re: NEW.SCORPIO 2.9 12V ULTIMA PROBLEMS, HELP Post by Spannerdemon on Feb 18th, 2007, 6:00pm Just solved some problems with my own 12v 2.9, and Bruce is right. Try removing the plug from the Throttle position sensor. Tie up the plug so it can't get caught in the belts. This is under the idle Control Valve, and has three wires/ pins. I'd suggest that you pull the clip that holds the plug in with pliers, as if you drop the clip into the engine compartment it's an absolute sod to retrieve. Then try driving the car again. If there's an improvement, then you almost certainly need a new TPS (about £40.00). The idle control valve may well just need a good clean. ALWAYS use new gaskets on both components. Any air leak will prevent you from getting the idle correct. DON'T go messing with the throttle control screw (which should have an anti-tamper cover on it anyway). This will not solve your problem, and will probably make things worse. The TPS gasket is about £9.00 from Ford. Easy to cut one yourself for about 3p out of some gasket paper (most accessory shops have this). If it's not this, then it could be other things, but need more info from you when you've checked this. Don't panic though. One way or another we'll get you sorted. Welcome to the site. :) |
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Title: Re: NEW.SCORPIO 2.9 12V ULTIMA PROBLEMS, HELP Post by derekne on Feb 18th, 2007, 11:14pm Hello Did this sort out your problem or is it still happening regards Derek |
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Title: Re: NEW.SCORPIO 2.9 12V ULTIMA PROBLEMS, HELP Post by dogma on Feb 19th, 2007, 7:32am MANY THANKS FOR YOUR HELP, WILL GIVE IT A GO TODAY, NEED TO GET A MANUAL AS THIS CAR TOTALLY BAFFELS ME HA HA, WILL LET YOU BOTH NO VERY SOON, BIG THANKS AGAIN, I OWE YOUS A BEER |
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Title: Re: NEW.SCORPIO 2.9 12V ULTIMA PROBLEMS, HELP Post by scorpio_man on Feb 19th, 2007, 7:38am hi there no manual is available for the scorpio. all the ford workshop data is on the main website. hth |
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Title: Re: NEW.SCORPIO 2.9 12V ULTIMA PROBLEMS, HELP Post by Spannerdemon on Feb 19th, 2007, 9:02am There are quite a lot of people now selling the Ford Scorpio Manuals (all types) on CD, on Ebay...............Naughty, as it's copyright, but Ebay seem to be turning a blind eye to it. There's even one guy selling it complete with the Ford logo on it. Last week there was a genuine (?) Dealer disc on there for all the current models. Ebay 260085911804 and Ebay 130081502467 for example. :o You'll still get ALL the information about your car here on this excellent site, and because we are real life owners of the car, we do know (between us) an awful lot about it. You can't have a discussion with a bit of plastic disc!! You'll find the guys here much more friendly and knowledgeable than any workshop manual, and there's usually someone around to help you with any problems, day or night. :D |
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Title: Re: NEW.SCORPIO 2.9 12V ULTIMA PROBLEMS, HELP Post by dogma on Feb 19th, 2007, 10:02am yes not good, no manual nor will there ever be, well ill have a play and see what happens lol, wish me luck, here i go |
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Title: Re: NEW.SCORPIO 2.9 12V ULTIMA PROBLEMS, HELP Post by dogma on Feb 19th, 2007, 12:11pm WELL ITS ME AGAIN, WELL WITHOUT A MANUAL I COULDNT WORK OUT WHAT WAS WHAT SO I BOUGHT SOME CARB CLEANER AND BASICALLY REMOVED THE PIPES FROM THE AIR FILTER BOX AND WHAT I THINK IS THE THROTTLE HOUSING (DER THE NEXT BIT ALONG WITH TWO HOLES WHICH OPENS AND CLOSES WITH THROTTLE) AND SET TO WORK WITH CAB CLEANER AND AN ANGLE GRINDER, ONCE CLEANER, I REPLACED AND SEALED WITH HERMATITE RED, I ALSO REMOVED A SMALL CYLINDER ITEM WHICH WAS SEPERATED BY TWO SCREWS AND CONTAINED A KIND ON BAR ON A SPRING, ALL OF THE ABOVE WERE SOOTY, THE RESULT WAS THAT THE CAR NOW TICKS OVER BETTER BUT SUDDENLY FOR A SPLIT SECOND DROPS REVS AS IF MOMENTARYLY THE FUEL IS BLOCKED, I REALLY APPRECIATE YOUR PATIENCE WITH HELPING ME, IM NOT A TOTAL DIM WIT HAHA :P |
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Title: Re: NEW.SCORPIO 2.9 12V ULTIMA PROBLEMS, HELP Post by Spannerdemon on Feb 19th, 2007, 3:30pm Glad it's improved. Quote:
Don't take an angle grinder near these components as their adjustment is critical... The throttle housing is indeed the chunky part that comes after the air cleaner hoses. with 'the two holes'. The butterfly valves and the spindle which open and close as you use the throttle should be nice and clean, and the 'Cylinder' is the IACV (Idle Control Valve). That too needs a gasket to ensure it's airtight. On one side of the Throttle housing, you have the springs and levers that actually open the throttle. The shaft runs right through the body of the Throttle Housing, and, at the other end, is the TPS (Throttle position sensor), which is the bit I was telling you about earlier. This is an 'electronic' part, and is held on with two very small bolts (7mm). Try testing it in the way I suggested , which is to remove the 3 pin plug from the TPS (not the TPS itself), and drive the car. If you notice a significant improvement, then there's a good chance that you've found the problem. Can I finally just kindly point out to you that when you TYPE IN CAPITALS, it is the Web equivelant of "SHOUTING" at people............. :) Come back if you need any further help. ;) |
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Title: Re: NEW.SCORPIO 2.9 12V ULTIMA PROBLEMS, HELP Post by dogma on Feb 20th, 2007, 7:31am How do you guys know all this lol, your better than a mechanic i know, was only joking about angle grinder ha ha and sorry about the capitals, its a habit ive got into, many thansk again and now i know a bit more i wil have a better look in some depth, big thanks again and if you guys are ever near thurrock let me know and ill buy a round, will post more results soon, ;D |
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Title: Re: NEW.SCORPIO 2.9 12V ULTIMA PROBLEMS, HELP Post by Spannerdemon on Feb 20th, 2007, 8:41am Glad to help. I've been working on my own cars and motorcycles for over 40 years....you learn a lot doing it yourself, like the satisfaction of doing it properly, and not getting ripped off by garages. ;D That's the beauty of this site. We all try to help each other, and I'm sure that as you get used to your own car, you'll be able to help others in due course. Believe me, there's a lot of very good and very nice guys on this forum. :D |
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Title: Re: NEW.SCORPIO 2.9 12V ULTIMA PROBLEMS, HELP Post by dogma on Feb 20th, 2007, 10:36am Hi all, well i did what you guys said and this was the results - After a good clean up with carb cleaner the idle seemed a lot better but every now and then would suddenly drop quickly and then return. I dissconected the ICV but this made it worse and only tick over at 500 RPM and cut out when it was given a few revs. After re-pluging it back in it seemed ok again and so I took her for a quick 5 min drive, on returning it was almost idling perfect and so far still is, will keep a close eye on it and will report back soon, many thanks ;D |
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Title: Re: NEW.SCORPIO 2.9 12V ULTIMA PROBLEMS, HELP Post by dogma on Feb 20th, 2007, 2:38pm Disaster struck about two hours ago, on my day off and thought id take my misses out in the car. We pulled up to get fuel only for the car to again start idling up and down again, then it cut out. Managed to restart but had to keep revs up to stop it stalling. After a while it ticked over poorly but didnt cut out. About 25 miles later we stopped for some lunch and it again cut out. This time it took ages to start and finally cut out and wouldnt start at all. 30 min later the RAC arrived and althought he got it started said that he could not tell me what was actually wrong without a diagnostic which FORDS charge 76 pound for. Said to also try and clean out the ICV again which im about to do. Any more ideas guys as im now going bald. :-/ |
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Title: Re: NEW.SCORPIO 2.9 12V ULTIMA PROBLEMS, HELP Post by Snoopy on Feb 20th, 2007, 2:59pm OK Does sound as though you have done something when messing about with the IACV.. On the 12v there is a small black vacum pipe fitted under the IACV which is crucial in the running of the car. It fits onto a clear plastic fitting and can easily be left off. If this is not fitted then you will experience very poor running difficult staarting and possible no 4th gear. well worth checking this first. This pipe is on the 2.9 v6 12v engine ONLY just to help out here is a PICTUREhttp://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0UABADk4Yy!xhLXv6rJA68tN9rTrDz4zWysISr43vPqF9wgpC8ZqTWoJ46dArRMA681fK7kYeR0YQ75QnuxkT9EFASaFXGtXB9E6vQXbeMsjY3YD6t4Z5dXiCQA4EcEAO/Vacum_pipe.JPG?dc=4675611254003435024 |
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Title: Re: NEW.SCORPIO 2.9 12V ULTIMA PROBLEMS, HELP Post by Simmo on Feb 20th, 2007, 3:00pm Check through This (http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/faultfinds.htm) list and see if it helps. The IACV can be crucial to the running. Did you replace the gasket ? if not it could be an air leak. Regretfully sometimes the only cure is to replace the unit. |
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Title: Re: NEW.SCORPIO 2.9 12V ULTIMA PROBLEMS, HELP Post by Spannerdemon on Feb 20th, 2007, 10:20pm Quote:
Please re-read my post. I didn't say disconnect the ICV. I said disconnect the TPS Plug. This is UNDER the Idle Control Valve, and has three (3) pins. The plug is held in place with a spring clip. Pull on the spring clip, (see my previous post to avoid losing this), and disconnect the plug. Then make sure the plug is well out of the way of any rotating belts, by taping it to something, and try the car again. If the car runs better, there's a good chance that your TPS sensor is faulty. ;) |
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Title: Re: NEW.SCORPIO 2.9 12V ULTIMA PROBLEMS, HELP Post by dogma on Feb 21st, 2007, 1:40am Hi again, I will try that tomorow as not had a lot of time today, I was looking at the wrong thing lol, well atleast the ICV is now very clean, ill dissconnect the plug you mentioned (if im looking at the rite thing the unit itself is aprox an inch long and is bolted on by two what could be 6-7 mm bolts with the black oval shapped plate bent over at each end to possibly prevent the bolts loosening. With regards to the kind info sent by snoopy I checked and all the pipes are on, once again guys a big thanks and I know you must be getting bored of me by now, if not my technical discriptions lol, but your help is much appreciated ;D |
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Title: Re: NEW.SCORPIO 2.9 12V ULTIMA PROBLEMS, HELP Post by Spannerdemon on Feb 21st, 2007, 11:50am Hi again. :D No..we're NOT getting bored of you. We all help each other here, and that's what makes it such a great site. It might me ME that needs help tomorrow. :o You have correctly identified the TPS sensor!! YIPPEE. We're getting there. You do NOT need to remove the sensor (in fact there's no benefit to doing so, as you will disturb the gasket and possible make things worse, so for the time being LEAVE IT ALONE). Simply disconnect the plug, being careful not to lose the spring clip which will try to 'ping' off and hide under the engine......I know....I've done it!! >: USE PLIERS. Make sure the cable can't dangle in the belts, cos it will make a horrible mess of it when you start up!! }{ Then run the car again for a few miles. it will run fine without the plug connected, and you hopefully will notice a big improvement to your idle problems. IF that's the result, then your TPS sensor is probably faulty. They are about £40 from Ford, and you need a gasket (make your own as they are £9.00)!! Even the guy in the parts department couldn't understand why a tiny little gasket cost anything like that.....but there you go. You can't repair a TPS sensor. They are plasti-sealed electronic units. Don't even bother. Give the pins inside the plug a good clean whilst you've got the plug off. I gave mine a good spray with some WD40 and then let it dry off. I have exactly the same car as you, so know quite a lot about it. I also had a Granada 2.4i Ghia and the engines are not so far apart. Hope you get sorted, and don't worry about returning as often as you need to. :) |
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Title: Re: NEW.SCORPIO 2.9 12V ULTIMA PROBLEMS, HELP Post by dogma on Feb 21st, 2007, 1:16pm Hi, I did exactly what you said to do, the car did start but died streight away, once restarted it idled at about 500 RPM and was struggling to tick over, even with a few revs it then cut out but was easily restarted only to do the same as above, somthing I read in a members problem page was that he has problems with the car thumping into gear, mine does that to if this is any more help ;D |
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Title: Re: NEW.SCORPIO 2.9 12V ULTIMA PROBLEMS, HELP Post by Spannerdemon on Feb 21st, 2007, 7:13pm OK. Now try this. Disconnect your battery for about 2 minutes, and then re-connect it. When you re-start, all the needles on the dash will fly around. The ECU is re-setting itself. drive the car for a few miles to settle it down again, and then report back. If your idle is still going up and down then it's probably the ICV or the TPS or both. These cars are about 10 years old now, and these are both critical components. They don't unfortunately last for ever. I got an ICV off Ebay. Guy said it was an unfitted one off a Ford Ka, but the guy at the Ford dealers here says that virtually ALL ICV's that have the same Throttle plate design will do. It works anyway. ;) |
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Title: Re: NEW.SCORPIO 2.9 12V ULTIMA PROBLEMS, HELP Post by TiberiuS on Feb 21st, 2007, 7:46pm Dogma, sounds like your problems certainly come from the throttle body area - bad idle/stalling is normally a vacuum/idle valve problem, the TPS can go faulty too (like old hifi volume controls go crackly/intermittent) but if you have a multimeter (preferably a good digital and a cheapo analogue one) you can check it for proper operation if the correct voltages are listed on site. You can check the 'idle' and 'full throttle' voltages with the digital one (more accurate than the analogue one) and then check the sweep of the needle of the analogue meter as you press the throttle...should be a nice clean sweep across the scale if the TPS is in good order. The Ford diagnostic the RAC man was talking about is just to read fault codes (check out the DIY diagnostic unit on the give advice section), you don't need this diagnostic carried out if there are no component faults. Nope, Spannerdemon is right - DO NOT try and repair the TPS, do NOT try and drill a 1mm hole into it to squirt switch cleaner in to - I, your honour did this and drilled straight through one of the tracks...not fun if your sensor is £140 a time from the main dealer 30 miles away :( ;D Hope you get it sorted mate :). I was in Thurrock yesterday, pass through there every couple of weeks (Long lane area, come through Orsett down torwards Lakeside) and always notice any Scorpios I pass - let us know the colour/reg of your car and I'll give you a flash next time I see you :D I'll be in my black 'counterfeit Scorpio' aka Jag XJ, reg N674ELT...give us a flash and I might even let you buy me a pint of single malt ;D ;) Regards, Bruce :) |
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Title: Re: NEW.SCORPIO 2.9 12V ULTIMA PROBLEMS, HELP Post by dogma on Feb 22nd, 2007, 3:34pm ;D Hi guys, due to the dreaded work ill give that a go in the morning, I know when I bought her it had a flat battery then, but anything is worth a go, My reg is P468 BMO and is a black/ dark purple saloon if anyone sees me, iv given a nod to a few scorpios but only got a "what the hell are you looking at" look back ha ha. Any one who has been great in helping will definatly have a beer waiting. Also was wondering. I have a GUNSONS FAULT FINDER, model 4152 which has the 3 pin plug, this is easily removed and wondered if it would work if i replaced it with a plug that would fit the scorp, and if so where could i buy a plug. Just an idea 8) |
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Title: Re: NEW.SCORPIO 2.9 12V ULTIMA PROBLEMS, HELP Post by dogma on Feb 23rd, 2007, 1:57pm Hi again, well I dissconnected the battery and waited a few minutes, it did as you said it would, took it for a drive but not really any differant from before, what I have noticed is that its worse when I have the a/c on, if im stationary and the a/c clicks in the revs drop so much that it sometimes stalls, with the a/c off and sitting in D with foot brake on it idles at around 500 RPM but hasnt stalled for a few days, does anyone elses scorp idle drop when doing this, thanks for your help again ;D |
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Title: Re: NEW.SCORPIO 2.9 12V ULTIMA PROBLEMS, HELP Post by Spannerdemon on Feb 23rd, 2007, 3:04pm Don't know what else to suggest here, although i have a feeling that it's your TPS. We are currently having test kits made for the 12v 2.9 so it might be worth your while reading the post regarding that. The three pin tester that you mention will NOT fit the Scorpio, neither will it adapt for it. I actually asked Draper about this some weeks ago. They do not do any test equipment suitable for the 12v Scorpio. Their Customer service guy emailed me a while back and when he saw what was needed, he accepted that their info ref the three pin tester was incorrect. You may still be in time to buy one direct on the site. Have a word with Highlander or Harry. ;) |
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Title: Re: NEW.SCORPIO 2.9 12V ULTIMA PROBLEMS, HELP Post by TiberiuS on Feb 23rd, 2007, 3:37pm Hi. The ICV should compensate for loads like the AC switching on, if the engine is stalling then it's a possible culprit. On my car it's like a stepper motor, the solenoid with the valve pintle at the end moves in and out to open/close the bypass on the throttle bore. If the motor can't move properly then it WILL have stability problems, if engine runs smoothly at part throttle then I'd bet my life it's down to the valve :) Anyone know what type of valve is used on the Scorp, like either stepper motor or solenoid? Would help to know what type it is. If you're handy with a multimeter you can test the TPS beyond doubt, voltages are somewhere on site :) Regards, Bruce. |
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Title: Re: NEW.SCORPIO 2.9 12V ULTIMA PROBLEMS, HELP Post by dogma on Feb 23rd, 2007, 4:12pm NICE ONE, thanks guys, my dad has a 2.3 auto which he cant get to start, its listed here under my user name, I might crawl and see if I can borrow the TPS and TIV and see what happens, Im guessing they shoul be compatable, knowing my luck im wrong lol, I recently donated 4 pound through paypal, sadly only a small ammount as times are hard, but also I just bought a new time clock for my scorp only to find mine was not plugged in, (yes I know what your thinking), if anyone who has helped me needs it please let me know and ill post it to you as a thanks, jim |
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Title: Re: NEW.SCORPIO 2.9 12V ULTIMA PROBLEMS, HELP Post by dogma on Feb 23rd, 2007, 8:13pm It gets better, just went out to use the car and took a lot of turning over to get it started, could this still be the ICV or TPS, im giving up the will to live. ??? |
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Title: Re: NEW.SCORPIO 2.9 12V ULTIMA PROBLEMS, HELP Post by TiberiuS on Feb 23rd, 2007, 8:24pm Try holding the throttle open a bit, this will let air in if the valve isn't opening, engine won't start without air :) |
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Title: Re: NEW.SCORPIO 2.9 12V ULTIMA PROBLEMS, HELP Post by dogma on Feb 23rd, 2007, 8:42pm Thats what I did my friend and it finally started, it puzzling me now, wondering if the ICV and the TPS would or could also affect the starting now, it was somtimes hard to start streight after the car had be used but never after it had been sat for a few hours, any idea where i can get the two I listed at reasonable price, this car is starting to beat me now :( |
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