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        General >> Problems >> Auto-box problem.
        
(Message started by: macroy on Apr 25^th, 2007, 7:34pm)

Title: Auto-box problem.
Post by macroy on Apr 25^th, 2007, 7:34pm

I don,t know how serious this is going to be.I was just driving up the road when I began to lose drive,revving and slipping all over the place.I managed to get home but there was smoke coming from under the bonnet and plenty of it.I have let the car cool down and lifted the bonnet to find it sprayed with oil all over,looks like auto fluid to me,this must have been sprayed over the exhaust hence the smoke.Does anyone have any ideas as where to start on this.Thanks,Roy.

Title: Re: Auto-box problem.
Post by TiberiuS on Apr 25^th, 2007, 7:54pm

Roy, I know from experience that the loss of drive is from the loss of fluid, not normally the other way around...so you might be lucky and just have a split hose somewhere, let it cool down and get a proper look at it.

Regards, Bruce.

Title: Re: Auto-box problem.
Post by Spannerdemon on Apr 25^th, 2007, 7:56pm

Hi Roy;

Check the autobox pipes which are behind the radiator.

[u]Quote from the link below "If they let go, your autofluid will spray all over the place and you will experience an alarming loss of drive"

SEE

HERE (http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/coolerpipes.htm)

Let's know how you get on. What a pain. ;)

Title: Re: Auto-box problem.
Post by macroy on Apr 26^th, 2007, 2:35pm

Hi Bruce and SD.Well I am at a total loss here.I took the engine tray off and checked the hoses and have run the engine to operating temperature but cannot find a leak anywhere.The fluid level still looks ok so I drove around the block a few times,it is slipping like mad,I checked the pipes again and still no leaks but then I noticed the exhaust smoking as if oil is being dropped onto it from the middle to back end area of the gearbox.Is there any pipes in this area that you know of?Thanks,Roy.

Title: Re: Auto-box problem.
Post by Spannerdemon on Apr 26^th, 2007, 2:52pm

Roy. Have a look at the gearbox pages:

Don't know what box you've got fitted but they should help.

HERE (http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/autotrans.htm)

Sounds as though either the gearbox sump gasket has gone, or a seal has failed. Best thing I can suggest would be NOT to drive it due to the risk of causing serious and/or expensive damage, but to thoroughly clean off the underside etc of the gearbox, and then run it and see if you can spot an obvious leak.

I know that's pretty obvious, but you might be able to pinpoint exactly where it's coming out, and from there find the likely area to look at on the drawings.

Better to do it without driving it, because the flow of air under the car will not help you to pinpoint it. I'm not sure if there's an oil seal at the rear of the transmission shaft extension on the box.

Might be something that's easily fixed so let's hope for the best. ;)

Title: Re: Auto-box problem.
Post by macroy on Apr 26^th, 2007, 3:25pm

Hi SD,according to what I have read on the site it is a A4LDE box.I am going to have to buy some ramps tomorrow so that I can get under it properly,I ran it up the kerb but I cannot get under far enough for inspection.Thanks,Roy.

Title: Re: Auto-box problem.
Post by Spannerdemon on Apr 26^th, 2007, 3:28pm

Hi Roy. Must have been updating when you posted. Have a look at the pages, especially the 'overhaul' info which provides good blow up piccies.

Yes you'll need ramps, and probably some axle stands too if you are going to work under it. Don't think there's much useful I can add until you've inspected it now. ;)

Title: Re: Auto-box problem.
Post by macroy on Apr 26^th, 2007, 3:34pm

Thanks for all your help so far,I will let you know what I find when I can get under it tomorrow.Thanks again,Roy.

Title: Re: Auto-box problem.
Post by Spannerdemon on Apr 26^th, 2007, 3:39pm

Check that your filler pipe (not the transmission dipstick, the pipe that it goes into), hasn't come out too. If it has, then the fluid will pump out everywhere, and would fit in with where you think the leak is from, and why it's getting on the exhaust.

It's more unlikely, but also not impossible that either the fluid return pipe or feed pipe have come loose/fractured. That wouldn't be too bad.......still a pain, but easily fixed! At least you 'd be able to top up, and all will return to normal.

See Page: 00-01-10 under the 12v Cologne entry in the gearbox pages for the 2 pipes location.

As said. let's hope for a happy ending for you. ;)

Title: Re: Auto-box problem.
Post by TiberiuS on Apr 26^th, 2007, 3:43pm

Roy, you've got an A4LDE like I had on the 2.3 - the place where the hoses normally go are at the oil coolder at the front of the car, near the main radiator. The most I ever did to my autobox was check some of the wiring and ATF level, Ford dealer did the rest...but they did mention the cooler pipes were perforating and replaced them. Just before I had my 'box done I got loss of gear followed by clouds of steam/smoke one day after coming of the motorway, pulled over and the car was engulfed by smoke...so much smoke that I thought it was on fire - but I never found the cause of that smoke, didn't seem to lose any fluid and I drove it home gently with no problems once it had cooled down. But leaking onto the manifold? I'm not sure where the pipes run :-/

Hope it's just a pipe gone, causes far worse symptoms than damage :).

Sorry I can't help more.

Regards, Bruce.

Title: Re: Auto-box problem.
Post by Spannerdemon on Apr 26^th, 2007, 3:55pm

Pipes run by the drivers side of the torque Converter if the diagrams are correct. ;)

Title: Re: Auto-box problem.
Post by macroy on Apr 26^th, 2007, 4:28pm

Bruce,that is just what happenned to me,just come off the motorway exit near to where I live,started to lose drive and loads of smoke,I thought it was on fire at first,must have been oil going onto exhaust.Anyway I will be underneath it tomorrow investigating and will let you and SD know my findings.Roy.

Title: Re: Auto-box problem.
Post by petehull on Apr 26^th, 2007, 4:51pm

Hi Macroy.... And me too... :D

Title: Re: Auto-box problem.
Post by macroy on Apr 27^th, 2007, 3:16pm

Well I have been under the car and cannot find a leak in any of the pipes ???I really am stumped now.I did find a very slight weeping at the front end of the sump cover but nothing really much.I have test driven it again and the slipping etc is still there.The question still remains also,where did the oil come from that caused all the smoke initially?and would it be worthwhile changing the oil and filter and see what happens.Also I have noticed recently after doing a coolant flush that there seems to be no or very little activity in the expansion tank and the engine seems to be giving off a lot of heat although the temp guage is reading normal.I felt the bottom hose on the rad today and it is not getting hot.What do you think on this one,water pump or thermostat perhaps?Thanks,Roy.

Title: Re: Auto-box problem.
Post by Spannerdemon on Apr 27^th, 2007, 3:43pm

Like you say. Very strange this.

I'm trying (without success) to make the connection between a slipping auto-box and smoke.

Obviously 'something' is causing smoke when it gets on to the exhaust, but is it transmission fluid, (ATF) or is it oil? If it's oil, then it's not coming from the gearbox, so why is the gearbox slipping? Likewise, if it's ATF, then for sure it's escaping from somewhere within the gearbox, so that rules out engine oil.

Don't forget that the internals of an auto-box work mostly on fluids being pumped at very high pressures between various solenoids and chambers. A leak will come out at high pressure, but that pressure may not build up until everything is at full working temperature.

For that reason it might be difficult to pinpoint. Sump seepage? I doubt it. it would come out more quickly unless the level is too low (which you say it isn't).

From where I'm sitting, you need to find (by whatever means), where the ATF/oil is escaping from, and exactly WHAT it is.

Oil OR ATF.

Only then are you going to be able to go further. ;)

On the water front, I'd say leave well alone if the cooling system is working OK. You've got enough problems. Water pumps nearly always either leak from the spindle gland or get very noisy when the shaft gland bearing goes, so I dodn't think the pump will be an issue here. You could try a new thermostat, but whether it will make any difference is debatable.

Keep the level of ATF correct whatever you do. The last thing you want to do is seize the box. ;)

Title: Re: Auto-box problem.
Post by scorpio_man on Apr 27^th, 2007, 3:43pm

hi there

are you getting any flashing of the o/d light? have you checked/cleaned the MAF?

how did you do the flush? using the screw out tap or with the bottom hose off?

Title: Re: Auto-box problem.
Post by macroy on Apr 27^th, 2007, 3:58pm

Hi,I have cleaned the MAF, not getting any flashing o/d light just slipping all over the place and overreving on gear change.When I flushed the cooling system I used the the tap at the bottom of rad,I thought the bottom hose should get hot but this is not doing.Roy.

Title: Re: Auto-box problem.Update.
Post by macroy on May 4^th, 2007, 1:48pm

Well I still cannot find a leak so I am now beginning to wonder if the gearbox has had it,if this is the case then I am afraid I will have to scrap it as the expense will be too great for me.Roy :(

Title: Re: Auto-box problem.
Post by Dave2302 on May 4^th, 2007, 4:08pm

Sounds to me like a dead box. A good rebuild will cost approx £800.
Good luck whatever you decide to do

Regards Dave

Title: Re: Auto-box problem.
Post by petehull on May 4^th, 2007, 10:16pm

I have a good autobox from a 95 2ltr if that's any help?

Pete

Title: Re: Auto-box problem.
Post by macroy on May 5^th, 2007, 12:47pm

Thanks Pete but is the box the same for a 2 litre as in the 24v cosworth.Roy.

Title: Re: Auto-box problem.
Post by TiberiuS on May 5^th, 2007, 1:01pm

Roy, it's the same type of box but as many people have found out before, won't take the torque from the 24v - the 24v version has uprated bearings and bands :(

Good luck sorting it :)

Regards, Bruce.

Title: Re: Auto-box problem.
Post by macroy on May 5^th, 2007, 1:50pm

Thanks Bruce,I thought there must be a difference as regards to that.There are a couple of 24v ones at the scrapyard but I am reluctant to pay their prices especially when they cannot guarantee their condition.Looks like I am going to have to do some serious saving up.Roy.

Title: Re: Auto-box problem.
Post by solarpanel on May 5^th, 2007, 7:28pm

what year is your cossie

Title: Re: Auto-box problem.
Post by solarpanel on May 5^th, 2007, 7:28pm

what mileage

Title: Re: Auto-box problem.
Post by macroy on May 6^th, 2007, 11:14am

It is a 1996 and has done just over 139,000.Roy.

Title: Re: Auto-box problem.
Post by solarpanel on May 6^th, 2007, 3:22pm

ive got a cossie engine and box out that i could split.