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        General >> Problems >> knocking 
        
(Message started by: pagey on Jun 26th, 2007, 7:53pm)
Title: knocking
Post by pagey on Jun 26th, 2007, 7:53pm
Hi all.
Had the car M.O.T'd a couple of weeks ago (passed!) and practically since driving out of the station, have developed a knocking type sound under the car. Sort of sound you would associate with a loose exhaust mounting. Visited an exhaust centre last Sat and the chap put it up in the air and give the pipes a good shaking. He said that he could find nothing wrong. I've got no idea what it could be. Any thoughts?
Kind regards.
Trev.   :)              2.9 12 valve.
Title: Re: knocking
Post by mrgraves on Jun 26th, 2007, 8:22pm
i have this prob too drives me round the bend (well when the car is running thta is  :) )
Title: Re: knocking
Post by Spannerdemon on Jun 26th, 2007, 9:48pm
Front stabiliser bar bushes would be the most obvious, and very easy to fix too.

HERE (http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/manual/suspension/FSuspStabiliser.pdf)

See Figure 4. These are the bushes. They wear, and even drop out. You do NOT need to remove the link arms to replace them, as they are a split bush which fits around the bar. Use some washing up liquid to lubricate them.  Always do both sides. ;)
Title: Re: knocking
Post by Highlander on Jun 26th, 2007, 9:52pm
something loose, radiator? oil cooler? prop?
Title: Re: knocking
Post by jonnycab on Jun 27th, 2007, 12:57am
If the knocking seems to be coming from the front end & is a heavy metalic knock when driving straight, on uneven roads, then I'd agree with Spannerdemon on this one  ;)

The bushes or the part of the roll bar where they wrap around can get badly worn & the roll bar ends up knocking on the underneath of the front of the engine on uneven road surfaces  :)

If it happens more when turning the wheel when pulling out at a junction etc, then I'd say it was a wishbone balljoint  :)
Title: Re: knocking
Post by Tompion on Jun 27th, 2007, 1:24am
Make sure they've left nothing behind, my brother found a metal bar on a ledge under his car after an MOT.
Title: Re: knocking
Post by pagey on Jun 27th, 2007, 6:22pm
Thanks for the advice chaps. Am taking the car to the guy who does the servicing for me on Sat and he's going to give it a run and see what he thinks. probably put it up on the hoist if he has time 'cos he's slotted me in to his busy schedule. Will pass on your suggestions. Thanks again.
Trev.   :)
Title: Re: knocking
Post by big_neil on Jun 27th, 2007, 7:58pm
the anti roll bar link can knock a bit as well
Title: Re: knocking
Post by ferretmobile on Jun 28th, 2007, 10:48am
Hi guys, strange this should come up at this point in time. I have also got a knocking sound...I put the car on the ramps at college this morning and apart from what has been mentioned here ( I wouldent recognise if it slapped me in the face) I had a goodly look at the exhaust, it being the exhaust it was born with. From what I could see, the exhaust is in fairly good nick, apart from the bit that leads into the cat heatshield doobry. The sleeve of the cat doobry seems almost paper thin and flakey. I am not loosing any power at all so I surmise that the cat itself must be OK.
So, is this sleeve supposed to be like this, and if not can the cat be removed and reused with a new surround or is the whole thing gotta go  :(
I have an inkling that the answer will be expensive if it is this sleeve is on the way out. If I have to get a new exhaust and a new cat, this will certainly put the tin lid on the car cos I know that the whole package will be over a grand and the memsahib will have a pink fit.
Its been going so well just of late...mostly motorway miles. She has clocked up 112 thou, and leaves most other cars as a dot in the rear view mirror. The 2.3 engine sounds sweet...your thoughts on this rattle would be most welcome gents.
Ferret :(
Title: Re: knocking
Post by scorpio_man on Jun 28th, 2007, 10:58am
hi there

are you talking about the flexi pipe?
http://www.buypartsby.co.uk/exhausts_details.php?recordID=1108

replacement exhaust are at lot cheaper now.

hth
Title: Re: knocking
Post by Spannerdemon on Jun 28th, 2007, 11:04am

Quote:
If I have to get a new exhaust and a new cat, this will certainly put the tin lid on the car cos I know that the whole package will be over a grand
 :o  :o

You'll get it for a LOT less than that. Shame to part with the car just because the exhaust/cat needs replacing. After all, exhausts go on ALL cars.

Shop around. If you buy Genuine Ford, then yes, you'll pay through the nose, but there are plenty of aftermarket, and second hand ones around.  ;)
Title: Re: knocking
Post by ferretmobile on Jun 28th, 2007, 11:23am
Hi SM, no not the flexi pipe, it is beyond that towards the engine. After the flexi pipe the exhaust is sleeved into the cat housing which looks a bit dodgy...
SD, I have had a phone around and cheapest that I could find was £300 from quickfit. I do believe that the 2.3 system is the same as the 2.0 or so I am told. But to be honest, the exhaust is not that bad but I am assuming that if the cat needed to be replaced then the whole system would probably need to be done as well or near as?
Ferret
Title: Re: knocking
Post by scorpio_man on Jun 28th, 2007, 11:32am
hi there

that must be part of the cat. i've got one in my shed, so i'll take a photo of it later.

btw, my car has been cat-less for about 3 years now and the exhaust is still fine.

hth
Title: Re: knocking
Post by ferretmobile on Jun 28th, 2007, 11:35am
Can you run the car without the cat and still pass an MOT?
Title: Re: knocking
Post by Spannerdemon on Jun 28th, 2007, 11:48am
QUICKFIT>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Sharp intake of breath!!

They are NOT cheap.  ;)

Go shopping again, and consider asking other members for the parts you need.

Not sure about the CAT and MOT, so will let someone else advise.  ;) I think you have to have it on for the test, but then you take it off again...till the next one... ;D

Some advice on this would probably be of interest to many of us!!  ;)  ;)
Title: Re: knocking
Post by petehull on Jun 28th, 2007, 11:49am
Re: The sleeve of the cat doobry seems almost paper thin and flakey. I am not loosing any power at all so I surmise that the cat itself must be OK.  

:D

I think that what you describe is the heatshield part of the cat.  The actual cat body is made of pretty robust steel, it gets very hot during operation so it has a close fitting shroud round it, usually has some glass fibre padding in it to stop vibrations, it may look like the shrouding is wearing a bit thin, however the cat should still be ok underneath, (although an exhaust shop may tell you different (for the sake of another sale)) >:(  if you push some non inflamable material into the shroud part it should tighten it up and stop any rattling....

hth
Pete
Title: Re: knocking
Post by ferretmobile on Jun 28th, 2007, 11:58am
Would a juberlee clip do the trick or has there got to be some movement allowed between pipe and shroud?
BTW, this thread IS getting quite interesting regarding the de-cat idea, the throaty roar without the cat would be nice. Presumably if one was to de-cat for most of the year and re cat for the MOT, a length of pipe would have to be employed to make up the difference between the manifold and the flexi pipe?
Title: Re: knocking
Post by ferretmobile on Jun 28th, 2007, 12:02pm
SD Ford want over £700 for a complete system and my local National Tyres want over £400. I dont like going to Quick fit, having had some bad experiences there but I would have thought that £300 was fair?
Perhaps not? ???
Title: Re: knocking
Post by scorpio_man on Jun 28th, 2007, 1:00pm
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v521/scorpio_man/scorpio%20bits/DSCN0197.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v521/scorpio_man/scorpio%20bits/DSCN0198.jpg

hth
Title: Re: knocking
Post by Highlander on Jun 28th, 2007, 1:00pm

on 06/28/07 at 11:58:03, ferretmobile wrote:
a length of pipe would have to be employed to make up the difference between the manifold and the flexi pipe?


Or use an old cat with the internals knocked out of it ;)

What a lot of old scrap you keep Andrew ;)
Title: Re: knocking
Post by ferretmobile on Jun 28th, 2007, 1:03pm
AHHHHHHHHHH  Cunning.

Its no wonder you Scots invented most things ;)
Title: Re: knocking
Post by Highlander on Jun 28th, 2007, 1:05pm
Tightness is the mother of invention  ;D
Title: Re: knocking
Post by ferretmobile on Jun 28th, 2007, 1:12pm
So, if you did have the above with all of its insides knocked out, would It pass an MOT on emmisions?

Andrew, thanks for the piccys... the bit that looks like the tail of the scorpion (no pun intendid) on mine is very thin and crumbly...is this the normal case or would you think that mine is nearly kaput?

BTW, nice patio but you do need a bit of weedol }{
Title: Re: knocking
Post by scorpio_man on Jun 28th, 2007, 1:46pm

on 06/28/07 at 13:12:35, ferretmobile wrote:
So, if you did have the above with all of its insides knocked out, would It pass an MOT on emmisions?

Andrew, thanks for the piccys... the bit that looks like the tail of the scorpion (no pun intendid) on mine is very thin and crumbly...is this the normal case or would you think that mine is nearly kaput?

BTW, nice patio but you do need a bit of weedol }{


it should be a bit thicker, maybe 2 or 3mm. :-/ a new patterned cat is about £120 plus delivery (looks smaller than the ford one). the ford one is very heavy duty, though.

re the mot. if your system is 100% (engine/fueling/exhaust/etc), then it would past if an old hollowed out cat was used. i use a s/s cat bypass pipe and a nice mot man. ;)

re the patio. that's my working bit. if you can make it stop raining, i'll put the weed killer down! ;D
Title: Re: knocking
Post by ferretmobile on Jun 28th, 2007, 2:25pm
Thank you Andrew, useful stuff there.
Re the rain...hmmm, fraid I cant do much about it. I have tried shaking my fist at the sky and do a fair impression of Victor Meldrew, according to the memsahib. But that doesnt seem to work at all...just makes me feel better, or is that the pills ;)
Title: Re: knocking
Post by big_neil on Jun 28th, 2007, 2:27pm
i,m with spanner demon on this , keep well away from  quickfiddle!
Title: Re: knocking
Post by petehull on Jun 28th, 2007, 3:29pm
RE: "BTW, nice patio but you do need a bit of weedol "

Roundup is what you want, more permanent..... ;D
Title: Re: knocking
Post by Tompion on Jun 28th, 2007, 5:37pm
I shouldn't worry if it's just the shroud,mine had a hole in & now has part of it missing (cut off to weld a leak in the outlet pipe prior to the MOT). I think the pattern ones may not have one fitted.

Dave
Title: Re: knocking
Post by scorpio_man on Jun 28th, 2007, 7:04pm

on 06/28/07 at 13:00:29, Highlander wrote:
What a lot of old scrap you keep Andrew ;)


hmmmm!  ;D now where did that exhaust come from?!? :)
Title: Re: knocking
Post by Highlander on Jun 28th, 2007, 7:27pm
I move all my scrap on ;)
Title: Re: knocking
Post by ferretmobile on Jun 29th, 2007, 2:04pm
Are we dealing with the Scottish branch of Steptoe & son here? }{
and there was me thinking that it was only us thingyerney geezers from dahn sarf that was up for a bit of tottin ;)
Title: Re: knocking
Post by ferretmobile on Jun 29th, 2007, 2:06pm
Thingerney?  Thingerney??
How can one describe when one has been born within the sound of Bow bells :-/
Title: Re: knocking
Post by jonnycab on Jun 29th, 2007, 3:29pm
Leave a space between the letters  ;)
Title: Re: knocking
Post by ferretmobile on Jun 29th, 2007, 4:07pm
what a cunning fellow..............
How are you J C?, still no pinking I hope :D
Title: Re: knocking
Post by scorpio_man on Jun 29th, 2007, 5:05pm
hi there

just to point out this (http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=Advice;action=display;num=1143273574).  :)

regards
andrew
forum admin team
Title: Re: knocking
Post by jonnycab on Jun 30th, 2007, 1:43am

on 06/29/07 at 16:07:41, ferretmobile wrote:
what a cunning fellow..............
How are you J C?, still no pinking I hope :D


I'm fine Ferret & the pinking is still a thing of the past  ;D....... much to the relief of scorpio_man I bet  ;)

........A few new problems though, but with 163K on her now & still being used as a daily work horse, then it's to be expected  :)
Title: Re: knocking
Post by ferretmobile on Jun 30th, 2007, 9:29am
Hi Andrew, I think that JC was pointing out that the filter has been a little harsh here when using a perfectly acceptable word. No offence was intendid. :)
Ferret :-X
Title: Re: knocking
Post by ferretmobile on Jul 2nd, 2007, 6:04pm
I had the car serviced today at my local Dovercourt Fords because I am off to France for a few weeks and I wanted the car to be A1 for the long drive.
I also asked Mr garage man to investigate this knocking sound. Well, they found the cause of this knocking and fixed it.
The prize goes to Big Niel, who guessed correctly that it was the N/S/F roll bar link. Neil, if we ever meet I shall buy you a beer for being a good guesser ;)
The other worries were groundless and the cat is fine, as is the exhaust.
I am a happy bunny once more (untill the visa bill arrives) :(
However...while I was waiting for the memsahib at Fords, I looked at a new mondeo estate tdci zetec....ohhhhhh baby. what a nice toy that is.  Ah well, one day, maybe :-/
Title: Re: knocking
Post by sector-9 on Jul 2nd, 2007, 9:08pm
Regarding the MOT emissions test:

The tester will test for several harmful gasses which are a byproduct of combustion of petrol.  The year the vehicle was first registered will determine what limits are acceptable to the tester.  As long as the vehicle doesn't exceed the relevant limits it should pass.  The catalytic converter is fitted to 'clean up' several of the harmful emissions which might otherwise cause a vehicle to fail, however, if the engine is capable of meeting the required standards without a cat then it is not neccessary to have one fitted.

Incidentally, Ford and several other manufacturers were working on lean-burn technology way back in the eighties - this gave better fuel economy than standard tune engines.  Unfortunately cats won't work properly if the mixture is too lean (or too rich) so engine management systems were tuned to provide the 'right' mixture for the cat to operate in - hence the O2 sensor fitted upstream of the cat.  A side effect of this is higher fuel consumption since the engine is running richer than it needs to in order to satisfy the cat's 'diet'...

Darren


P.S.

The above is not an official MOT quote, it's my understanding of the law and the background to the introduction of cats.
Title: Re: knocking
Post by pagey on Jul 5th, 2007, 7:04pm
Hi all.
Getting back to the original post (the way it was going, I thought that I had weeds growing round the cat and it was bashing them on the underside!) I took the car to my friendly mechanic this morning and he replaced the anti-roll bar link arms and hey presto- the knocking has stopped. That's the good news. The bad news is that he has advised me to seriously consider replacing the steering rack. He said that Power Steering Services of Greenwich would be the ones to do it. Anyone used them?   :-/
Kind regards.
Trev.  :)
Title: Re: knocking
Post by Simmo on Jul 6th, 2007, 8:05am
Hi Trev, replacing the rack is a very straightforward job which any mechanic should be able to deal with. Why is he saying it needs replacement ?. Are you loosing fluid?. If the level is dropping with no obvious sign of a leak it may be 'storing'in the steering gaiters. Could he have noticed that whilst doing the other job?. The racks are readily available from motor factors BUT a specialist firm would have the equipment to flush out the old system to rid it it of any debris in the lines,pump,etc. which is the correct method. The details of how to do the job are on the site. HERE (http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/steermanual.htm) Regards to you and Mollie, Mike/Lynn.
Title: Re: knocking
Post by WAYNE on Jul 6th, 2007, 3:31pm
Hi guys
Im going to replace front suspension bar bushes but have a couple of questions.Before i remove the suspension bar retaining nuts do i have to undu and separate the link rods from stabiliser bar or can this be done insitu.tThe second question is how tight do i tighten the retaining nuts to the suspension bar.
Regards,
Wayne.
Title: Re: knocking
Post by big_neil on Jul 6th, 2007, 4:40pm
my mates just fitted a new rack from unipart £120, all in.


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