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        General >> Problems >> Engine cut-out > dashlights illuminate w/o key 
        
(Message started by: Cosray - The Hague - Holland on Jul 3^rd, 2007, 11:05am)

Title: Engine cut-out > dashlights illuminate w/o key
Post by Cosray - The Hague - Holland on Jul 3^rd, 2007, 11:05am

Cosworth v24

5 miles after a 'super' carwash the engine, while driving normally, at once cut out.
All voltages and indications normal but no firing.
Dutch AA measured no spark, however after an hour of testing the engine would start and kept running OK ever since.
We suspected a wet CPS sensor since it sits under the engine.

An unusual phenomenon occurs since then sporadically: when opening the driverdoor occasionally all instrumentcluster indicatorlights will light up + fuel and temp meters come up.

No key present! After a minute or so it clicks behind the dash and lights and meters are powered off. Sometimes this is repeated.
Engine still starts and runs OK.

Can't use the alarm though since this unvoluntary powering triggers the alarm.

Is the engine cut-out and strange key-less behaviour related?

Any clues?
Curious, Ray

Title: Re: Engine cut-out > dashlights illuminate w/o
Post by scorpio_man on Jul 3^rd, 2007, 11:15am

hi there

sounds like you've got water into both fuseboxes.

you need to dry them out asap, or you will have endless problem with the car's electrical system.

http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/karcher.htm

hth

Title: Re: Engine cut-out > dashlights illuminate w/o
Post by jonnycab on Jul 4^th, 2007, 1:51am

Have you checked to see if water has got inside the car & leaked onto the ECU & the CCM ?

Title: Re: Engine cut-out > dashlights illuminate w/o
Post by Cosray - The Hague - Holland on Jul 4^th, 2007, 10:01am

Thanks for the tip - I know where the EEC sits and will look at it but where is the CCM located?

Ray

Title: Re: Engine cut-out > dashlights illuminate w/o
Post by Spannerdemon on Jul 4^th, 2007, 10:15am

Have a look at my answer to this subject on this thread. I've put a picture there to show what damage can be done to the ECU.

HERE (http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=Problems;action=display;num=1181986852)

BOTH units are behind the glovebox. Bet you've got water in them.

It's very possible that this is what's caused your problem, and you need to THOROUGHLY seal that grommet behind the battery to stop it happening again. ;)

Title: Re: Engine cut-out > dashlights illuminate w/o
Post by Cosray - The Hague - Holland on Jul 4^th, 2007, 10:43am

Thanks for your suggestion - will look right into it.

Seems very plausible, all considering!

Will get back to you --

Ray

Title: Re: Engine cut-out > dashlights illuminate w/o
Post by Cosray - The Hague - Holland on Jul 4^th, 2007, 9:50pm

Hi all,

inspected ECCV, CCM and all their cables & connectors.
They look like new; no water nor humidity nor corrosion at all.
Spraycleaned them and closed up.

Grommets to enginebay are tight and dry; not even dustparticles comes through.

Everything under the glovecompartment is in new condition.
Under the dash nothing comes close to being damp.
The unusual dashlights coming on has ceased completely.

The well under the windshieldwipers is completely dry; well ventilated and the drainholes are open. Fuseboxes same.

Engine runs & starts perfectly.

What now? Wait for the next engine cut-out?
I am having the CPS renewed tomorrow just to make sure.

Any other clues?

Looking forward,

Ray

Title: Re: Engine cut-out > dashlights illuminate w/o
Post by jonnycab on Jul 5^th, 2007, 2:38am

Maybe all the moisture evaporated before you got to it ;)

Title: Re: Engine cut-out > dashlights illuminate w/o
Post by Simmo on Jul 5^th, 2007, 6:10am

If by the term 'Super wash' you mean that the UNDERSIDE of the car was subjected to pressure washing then surely the likelihood is that water has got into one of the connectors in the engine bay. The first place to check would be the large 'central connector' on the inner wing.

Title: Re: Engine cut-out > dashlights illuminate w/o
Post by Spannerdemon on Jul 5^th, 2007, 6:22am

Quote:

Maybe all the moisture evaporated before you got to it

[] Scorpio's don't like water anywhere near their electrics. :o :o

IF it happens again, there's a good chance that all or any of the above ideas will prove to be the culprit.

Glad it's running OK again anyway. :)

Title: Re: Engine cut-out > dashlights illuminate w/o
Post by Cosray - The Hague - Holland on Jul 5^th, 2007, 6:48am

on 07/05/07 at 06:10:41, Simmo wrote:

Yes, for once I took the most expensive program, wheels & underside. Never again.

Which connector would that be?
Driverside? O/S?
There are so many out there.

Thx, Ray

Title: Re: Engine cut-out > dashlights illuminate w/o
Post by Cosray - The Hague - Holland on Jul 5^th, 2007, 6:51am

on 07/05/07 at 02:38:31, jonnycab wrote:

Maybe all the moisture evaporated before you got to it ;)

... like your money at a Ford's workshop... ;D

Title: Re: Engine cut-out > dashlights illuminate w/o
Post by Spannerdemon on Jul 5^th, 2007, 6:54am

NEVER go there Ray. Like in NEVER!! ;)

It's like an Edgar Allen Poe/ Stephen King horror movie. ;D

Title: Re: Engine cut-out > dashlights illuminate w/o
Post by Simmo on Jul 5^th, 2007, 9:18am

Ray, the one I was particularly thinking of is, on my 20ltr 16v a large 'block' connector fixed to the inner wing,just below the power steering bottle and which has a 10mm? nut on the top to secure the two halves.

Title: Re: Engine cut-out > dashlights illuminate w/o
Post by Cosray - The Hague - Holland on Jul 5^th, 2007, 12:30pm

on 07/05/07 at 09:18:09, Simmo wrote:

Hi Simmo,

I am trying to 'convert' your valued suggestion to my 24v enginebay. Next to my powersteeringbottle sits the ABSpump + other congested stuff.

Cannot detect a nut-secured connector connecting two halves...

Would you have any clue as to your connector's function? It may sit in a different location in my Cossie.

Thanks, Ray

Title: Re: Engine cut-out > dashlights illuminate w/o
Post by Cosray - The Hague - Holland on Jul 5^th, 2007, 12:44pm

Morning all,

thanks for all your input sofar!

Had a new CPS in this morning; had it installed at a very reasonable 'village' Ford dealer.

Since the Camshaft Position Sensor is closest to streetlevel and the ultimately responsable for a running engine I thought it wise to have it replaced anyways.
Total cost P + L of € 69 / £ 46 for 'better safe than sorry'.

Noticed a slight hue of rust on the sensor's camwheel and a single tiny drop of oil above it (sweat). Engine's 80.000 km young and neither burns nor spills any oil.

Could watersurge from the carwash's underside jets have temporarily 'blinded' the CPS?

Otherwise the space (shielded by the undercoat) is dry.

The dashindicators + meters illuminating spontaneously has not re-occurred.

Looking forward to any other clues.

Ray

Title: Re: Engine cut-out > dashlights illuminate w/o
Post by Simmo on Jul 5^th, 2007, 5:44pm

Ray, I think it would equate with 110 0r 113 in THIS (http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/24vlooms.htm) diagram. Does that help?.

Title: Re: Engine cut-out > dashlights illuminate w/o
Post by Cosray - The Hague - Holland on Jul 5^th, 2007, 6:21pm

on 07/05/07 at 17:44:39, Simmo wrote:

Ray, I think it would equate with 110 0r 113 in THIS (http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/24vlooms.htm) diagram. Does that help?.

It does certainly Simmo; it does.
Fisrt thing in the morning I will take a peek at them.

Thanks, Ray