Ford Scorpio Forum - Print Page


    
      
        Ford Scorpio Forum
        (https://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl)
      

        General >> Problems >> Cossie troubles
        
(Message started by: Octavian_P on Jul 17^th, 2007, 12:04pm)

Title: Cossie troubles
Post by Octavian_P on Jul 17^th, 2007, 12:04pm

Hi there

I finally managed to take the cossie from my mechanic....it was a nightmare. As you remember i had a very nasty timing rattle and broken sprockets. Well now it has new timing chains, sprockets, tensioner, blades, gaskets etc. I had some electrical problems as well, it turned out that the auto box wasn't connected properly. Now it is running but has some trouble. It doesn't idle nice. It shakes and splutters. Sometime for a second or two it goes ok, other times the engine just dies. The same happens in P, N, or D. When i select D the car tends to pull away in the same splutter like the engine does. If i rev the engine over 1200-1400 rpm the shaking goes away.

I have an borrowed OBD2 lead, and it doesn't show any error codes. Can anyone give me some advice.

Title: Re: Cossie troubles
Post by jonnycab on Jul 17^th, 2007, 12:38pm

I had a similar problem on my 2.3, worse in cold weather. Would cough & splutter, & when putting it in drive or reverse the engine felt as though it was going to shake itself out of the car..... After 3 or 4 starts it would be okay again.

I replaced the IACV & that seemed to cure the problem :)

Title: Re: Cossie troubles
Post by solarpanel on Jul 17^th, 2007, 7:07pm

are the cam sprockets all lined up,any air leaks,injectors pluged up in the correct order,plug leads on right,or take it back to mechanic

Title: Re: Cossie troubles
Post by Octavian_P on Jul 18^th, 2007, 5:00pm

For starters i'll check, and double check the vacuum hoses, spark plugs, leads....basic stuff.

I hope that the "smart" mechanic of mine did managed to set the timing correct.

Title: Re: Cossie troubles
Post by solarpanel on Jul 18^th, 2007, 9:05pm

did nt you say to me in pm that you got new sprockets but not complete set

Title: Re: Cossie troubles
Post by Octavian_P on Jul 18^th, 2007, 9:32pm

??? hmmm i think i messed up the PM's ;D

I ordered 2 sets of left sprockets and then took them to a metal workshop and they have adapted a set to the right side. The sprockets (left and right) are exactly the same but they have a bigger / smaller hole to insert a metal piece. On the right ones i had to turn them backward and enlarge the hole, put the insert in and weld it.

Sorry that i couldn't take picture but this "work" was did by my mechanic. At least i could see the sprockets before they where put in the engine, and they were ok. As for the lock washers they are new and if i remember correctly they all where stamped with 95 on them.

Title: Re: Cossie troubles
Post by solarpanel on Jul 18^th, 2007, 10:02pm

did the timing lines match the old ones when adapted?

Title: Re: Cossie troubles
Post by TiberiuS on Jul 19^th, 2007, 12:21am

Well, might be better to start with the simple things first before you jump in the deep end and start wondering about the work he did.

If it's anything like the Jag, excess air (vacuum leak) will make it idle like a bag of spanners and hesitate at low RPMs, start by checking the inlet plumbing. Then idle valve, coils perhaps.

Maybe just a symptom of being laid up for a few weeks? Have you given it a good run? I know from experience that injectors don't take kindly to being left, even for a month or so.

Sounds like it could be a dead coil to me, surely bad timing would make it miss at higher revs? :-/

Hope this helps.

Title: Re: Cossie troubles
Post by Octavian_P on Jul 19^th, 2007, 6:39am

The new adapted sprockets are identical to the old ones. The same marks, same teeth, etc. The car stood dismantled more than 2 month. I did run the car for about 100 km.

Title: Re: Cossie troubles
Post by Octavian_P on Jul 24^th, 2007, 2:16pm

Hi there, couldn't check the car at all, the climate here went crazy. At this moment the temp outside is 43 degrees centigrade at the shade. In the town the temperature is 50 C and at the sun ....it simply .... terrifying.

I want to ask you another thing, let's say if the timing has a slight misalignment, will it hurt the engine if i go on a trip with it ? I ask this silly question because i had a similar problem when i bought the car, and at that time both of the oxygen sensors where not switching. After a 300 km trip and some excessive speeding, all returned to normal. I believe this has to do with the 1 year in which the car has been unmoved. I also consider of pouring in some injector cleaner and some octane booster.

Title: Re: Cossie troubles
Post by Tobbe on Jul 24^th, 2007, 3:37pm

on 07/18/07 at 21:32:48, Octavian_P wrote:

I got a picture for you, but I did it in another way....

http://hem.bredband.net/tobhed/capri/kamdrev.jpg

Also notice the countersink on the centre whole, this does also differ from lhs the rhs...

Title: Re: Cossie troubles
Post by Octavian_P on Jul 24^th, 2007, 8:18pm

Hi there

Nice pics, so i'm not the only one which had this problem. I didn't do the small sinks in mine....i hope that this isn't the problem.... :-/

I have run an OBD check again in this evening, no codes found, no enhanced codes. So from electronically part of the view it seems ok.

Here are some pictures with the scans. I'm not to good at reading all those short term / long term fuel trims. The RPM varies from 690 to 760

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d190/Octavian_P/1.jpg

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d190/Octavian_P/2-2.jpg

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d190/Octavian_P/3-1.jpg

Title: Re: Cossie troubles
Post by scorpio_man on Jul 24^th, 2007, 9:02pm

hi there

bank 1 is running a bit rich (-13.3%)

bank 2 is very lean (23.4%) and is about to give an error code at +25%.

i'd disconnect the battery for 1/2 hour to reset everything, then try again.

hth

Title: Re: Cossie troubles
Post by Octavian_P on Jul 25^th, 2007, 6:35am

Thanks for the translation. When i started the engine the longft 2 was 24 %. Tonight i'll do the battery disconnect.

Title: Re: Cossie troubles
Post by Octavian_P on Jul 30^th, 2007, 9:44am

OK, did the battery disconnect, check the vacuum hoses, checked / cleaned spark plugs / leads. (adjusted the gap to 1.0 mm). Also i have checked again plugs from the MAF, IACV, TPS, cleaned with contact cleaner. Still no joy engine runs still bad. I ruled out that the IACV is OK, because if i pres the accelerator the engine doesn't run smooth not even at 1200 rpm, it still shakes a bit. Another annoying thing is that when i select revers the engine dies, or if i brake suddenly the same things happens. The worst of it is to lose power steering and brakes...when coming around a corner... :-X

I still have the OBD2 lead but don't know at what to look further.

Title: Re: Cossie troubles
Post by Octavian_P on Aug 10^th, 2007, 8:11am

Hi there, managed to scan the beast again. The LONGFT1 is now ok, only 3-4 % maximum. But the LONGFT2 is 25 %, but when i press and hold steady the accelerator (around 2.000 rpm) it shows only slight corrections like 2-3 %. Also if i select D, press the brake pedal and slight accelerate. Even with the rev counter under 1.000 rpm the engine goes nice, no more splutter, no dieing etc. Could it still be the timing in this case ?

Title: Re: Cossie troubles
Post by martin_rowe on Aug 10^th, 2007, 8:42am

LOOK FOR AIR / VACUUM LEAKS. EGR VERY SUSPECT.

Title: Re: Cossie troubles
Post by TiberiuS on Aug 10^th, 2007, 9:28am

Hi, ditto with Martin. It could be (just theory) a vacuum leak is leaning the mixture (hence the roughness and fuel trims) and when you press the throttle it enriches the mixture, even though the revs are low.

Google inlet manifold leak or something, it should give you some more info :)

Title: Re: Cossie troubles
Post by pappa on Aug 10^th, 2007, 12:35pm

My dear (sold) cossie engine gave me a lot of headeache due to leaks in EGR and in other vacuum hoses.
The most annoying one was the one that is almost impossible to get a hold of, it's behind the engine,
a little metallic tube that is connected into the passenger (left hand drive!) side exhaust manifold and
into the EGR. It was very loose and you could actually hear some exhaust gases escaping from there
when the engine was "idling". then one of the vacuum hoses had broken. The one that goes into
the plastic box which is mounted on the side of the aircon/heating system, in the engine compartment just under the windscreen.

This is next to the battery (left hand drive!). Also the vacuum pipe that provide vacuum for break
booster is prone the loosen. I have that in my -97 project car. (Well, it's hissing like a snake somewhere
inside the octogirl thingy too, but runs nicely. )

Some more things to wonder bout for you :)

Title: Re: Cossie troubles
Post by Octavian_P on Aug 10^th, 2007, 12:56pm

Well in this week-end i'll arm myself till tooth with keys and wrenches and attack it.

....wish me luck :-/

Title: Re: Cossie troubles
Post by pappa on Aug 12^th, 2007, 12:58am

Good luck!

;D

Title: Re: Cossie troubles
Post by Octavian_P on Aug 12^th, 2007, 3:57pm

Well i took the intake apart, i found a broken hose. the one that actuates the EGR capsule. Also i took the injectors out which where full of rust :-[ and made them like new. Also found a lot of broken screws and mis threaded... by my "trusty mechanic". All right mounted it back all together, and surprise it run like a dream for a few minutes, no splutters, no shakes, no dead engine when selecting revers....so took it for a run... :-[ well all the symptoms came back. Tomorrow i'll run another OBD and check the LONGFT again.

Title: Re: Cossie troubles
Post by TiberiuS on Aug 12^th, 2007, 4:42pm

The injectors full of rust? Did you undo the fuel rail and see what what was inside? If there's flakes of rust floating about inside the rail, your injectors are dead. you can try getting them reconditioned but most places won't touch them if they're rusted. Clogged injectors will bring an engine to its knees, they would also mess up the fuel trims.

Sounds like you found your problem though, stick with it :)

Title: Re: Cossie troubles
Post by Octavian_P on Aug 13^th, 2007, 5:53am

The scorpio injectors have the their own filter. The rust flakes where deposited on the ramp. Today i started it again, surprise, for 5 minutes worked like new :o, after the engine warmed up, same symptoms again. Will do an OBD scan today and see the trims again.

Title: Re: Cossie troubles
Post by Octavian_P on Aug 13^th, 2007, 11:48am

I think i have a related problem with the AC ? I found out today when i'm accelerating harder and i push the engine over 2-2.5 K theres a sudden rush of hot air in the cabin. From what i know the AC recirculation is connected to the engine vacuum. Maybe theres a broken diaphragm or something like that. :-/

Title: Re: Cossie troubles
Post by howiedintheplace on Aug 14^th, 2007, 11:48pm

So your saying it only does it after it's warm now?

Check for air leaks again.

Title: Re: Cossie troubles
Post by Octavian_P on Aug 15^th, 2007, 6:06am

Yes, now for a short time, it runs almost ok, the engine isn't perfectly smooth, but i can select any gear without killing the engine.

PS: in the meantime i found that the EGR solenoid valve was letting atmospheric air in both ways, to the EGR capsule and to the intake manifold.... Well now i have pulled out the hose and put a plug on it, that should solve it for the moment. Also i saw a major fuel consumption decrease, now getting 20-25 mpg on short runs and half of the distance is in town. I'll do another OBD check today and post later the news

Title: Re: Cossie troubles
Post by Octavian_P on Aug 24^th, 2007, 12:20pm

Allright problem SOLVED !!! ;D

here is the outcome (http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=news;action=display;num=1178268804;start=15#15)