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Title: 2.3 DOHC installation on halt - sorted Post by pappa on Jul 29th, 2007, 3:58pm Hi there! My engine dowgrade from 24v to 16v is in its final stages now. The new engine is in place and I made a new exhaust pipe with a cat etc. Will write a full report with a pile of photos one day. I haven't seen or worked with a 2.3 DOHC Scorps before... Well I have peeked under the bonnet of one, but never actually taken a closer look. So I have a few questions: 1. The coolant hoses need to be sorted. Some of them are quite obvious like the one that goes to the upper radiator hole and the one that goes down, but, but... Is the heater matrix lower hose connected to: http://www.issikka.net/make/images/engswp/egr_and_waterpump.jpg the small circled pipe in the picture? 2. Where are the hoses from the EGR (in the same pic) connected? 3. In the picture: http://www.issikka.net/make/images/engswp/empty_water_hole_and_a_multiplug.jpg What is the meaning of that waterhole I've circled in the picture and what is this multiplug for (also circled) 4. Vacuum pipes for the DOHC 2.3 ? sigh! I've tried finding information from the site, but in vain. Could someone throw me some pictures of the 2.3DOHC vacuuming :) Much, much appreciated. There are a few pipes on top of the inlet manifold, one is for the break booster, that's ok, one goes down to the fuel fumes recirculator (or whatever it is called) but then there's these two lonely black pipes standing up and waiting for some hoses. Your help is much appreciated, the project is waiting for these little pieces and some minor adjustments. Then it's time to try to fire up the beast :O Thanks in advance! |
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Title: Re: 2.3 DOHC installation on halt - advice needed. Post by Kjetil S on Jul 29th, 2007, 5:26pm The waterhole seems to be where the temp sender sits. Here's a pic of my 2.0 16v http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f41/kskjon/DSC00003.jpg (Sorry for the poor focus. I took it with my cell phone, and forgot to turn on macro mode) Edit: I'll go out and see if I can do some pictures for you. Mine's a 2.0 but it is mostly the same engine. |
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Title: Re: 2.3 DOHC installation on halt - advice needed. Post by jonnycab on Jul 29th, 2007, 5:46pm Hi...in the first pic that is indeed where the matrix lower hose fits & the two EGR pipes go to the EGR transducer which is mounted near to the back of the air filter box. In the second picture, as Kjetil says, it is for the temp guage sender, although I've never seen a fitting that looks like that before. Usually it is a brass nut than is sunk into the t-stat housing. hth... :) |
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Title: Re: 2.3 DOHC installation on halt - advice needed. Post by Kjetil S on Jul 29th, 2007, 6:03pm Okay, here they are: The water hole is indeed for the temp sender (I just checked). I can't find your mysterious multiplug anywhere, so can't help you with that one. Here's a few pics of the EGR transducer and the matrix lower hose: http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f41/kskjon/scorpio/IMGP3010.jpg http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f41/kskjon/scorpio/IMGP3008.jpg http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f41/kskjon/scorpio/IMGP3009.jpg |
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Title: Re: 2.3 DOHC installation on halt - advice needed. Post by jonnycab on Jul 29th, 2007, 6:16pm The multiplug is for the temp guage sender ;) The two lonely black pipes are for the vacuum hoses that go to the EGR vacuum regulator (right pipe) & the Evap canister purge valve (left pipe) :) http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i101/jonnycab/P7290050.jpg |
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Title: Re: 2.3 DOHC installation on halt - advice needed. Post by pappa on Jul 29th, 2007, 7:47pm GLANG! That's me little head hitting the table when me taking the deepest bow at your directions Gentlemen! Thanks about a million! The weird look on the temp cauge sender unit must have something to do with Volga. :) This engine was supposed to be installed into a Russian Volga Taxi. Thanks! Project continues! p.s. I have a tem sender unit - it won't fit into the pipe and it's plug is different from the multiplug shown in the pic, but I think i can manage with it! |
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Title: Re: 2.3 DOHC installation on halt - again Post by pappa on Aug 5th, 2007, 6:41am Hi everyone! Have had a huge pile of things to sort out with my engine swap project. I'm going to need a pile of parts in the future for it, so anyone 2.3 DOHC under breaking/broken stay alert. Outstanding problem is the PATS giving 1:6 error - Faulty connection between PATS and ECU it says. Anyone have had this? Then a question about the front stabilizer bar, could some take a peak under the car with a camera, I suspect they're different in 24V and in 16V. Yesterday started putting the struts back in and the stabilizer bar ends were pointing upwards, not downwards like they used to ??? It seems to me that the DOHC engine front comes further down than the 24V. Gosh... I'm so close, I'm so close! And I'm so much in trouble, we need two cars or else... (that's my wife, the or else part :-X ) |
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Title: Re: 2.3 DOHC installation on halt - again Post by Simmo on Aug 5th, 2007, 6:52am Does THIS (http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/suspensionman.htm) page help?. Try THIS (http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/frontsusp.htm) one and the links on the left hand side as well. |
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Title: Re: 2.3 DOHC installation on halt - again Post by pappa on Aug 5th, 2007, 11:03am Nope, not really, thanks Simmo. I've searched through the site and I also have a Ford T.I.S. CD but did not manage to see how it is in the 16V vs 24V. I removed the stabilizer bar and will get adaptors made for me in order to get it down about 2cm. Thanks for your time Simmo. |
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Title: Re: 2.3 DOHC installation on halt - again Post by pat on Aug 5th, 2007, 7:44pm Hi Pappa. Sorry to hear you have problems. I'm afraid I am offering only sympathy and thanks. I was contemplating dropping our 2.9's engine into the 2.0 estate which would give me the perfect(well almost!) car. I would have been lost with the problems you have had and have now decided to leave well alone. Good luck. Hope you get it sorted. I'm sure you will. Pat |
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Title: Re: 2.3 DOHC installation on halt - again Post by pappa on Aug 6th, 2007, 5:12am Thanks for your sympathy Pat! Oh well, it's only technology so it can be sorted out, no doubt of that. It's just taking a bit too long to finish, we really need two cars in our household and that's what's putting pressure on the project. Having done this once, the second one is much easier, but it is a lot of work. Swapping between different engine types needs good preparation and it's just not the engine that has to be changed, there's more work to it. I will write a full report on my case, I have taken quite a lot of pictures while I've been at it. I also have been doing some more work at the same go, like changing the drivers side front wheel bearing - bloody **** should have taken it to somewhere! Those bearing parts are all rusted and the bearing itself won't come out without a hydraulic press. Well I knew it wouldn't be easy, but it did make such a bad noise already that it had to be done. All these little things and missing parts have taken a lot of time. I had to re-create the coolant hoses, new ones would have taken a week to come by and would have costed a small fortune. The exhaust pipe - would have costed a fortune, so I had to do it myself etc... The PATS, even though anticipated, was the greatest disappointment (In a way - it's working exactly as it should!). I was sure that the ECU that I had was programmed to work without the PATS, because it was meant to be put into a car without an immobiliser. Maybe that's the problem. But I will take the car to the local Ford, once I get bearing sorted and the stabilizer bar sorted and a trailer, and a car with a towing hook ;D borrowed... |
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Title: Re: 2.3 DOHC installation on halt - again Post by Kjetil S on Aug 6th, 2007, 8:37am I was thinking.. Have you tried hooking up some temporary wires, completely bypassing the PATS unit? I tried looking at the schematics, but they weren't too descriptive of the PATS, so except for the signal wire to the starter, I'm not sure what's needed though. You probably have this (http://www.carsoft.ru/avtorepair/sierra_el.html) link already |
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Title: Re: 2.3 DOHC installation on halt - again Post by pappa on Aug 6th, 2007, 9:12am Nope Kjetil, I did not have that link so thank you. I've always hated looking at wiring diagrams. Now I reckon I must start loving for the future ;) There is an orange box attached on side of the PATS has anyone any idea what it is? It's connector looks very much the same as does the diagram in there: http://www.granada-and-scorpio-online.com/forums/showthread.php?s=74e1622f76085e75d39073cce16b274d&threadid=69 Search for immobiliser and you'll find the diagram. I tried that without the PATS in the car, but it was a no go anyway. Ford says it needs a new key programming and if that's not going work, it may need new keys and them programmed... The PATS is signalling 1:6 - faulty connection between PATS & ECU - so I'm wondering why the key programming schema first? |
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Title: Re: 2.3 DOHC installation on halt - again Post by TiberiuS on Aug 6th, 2007, 9:33am Hi. Maybe if you could get a matching ECU and PATS module from a 2.3 from the UK this would solve the issue? If the ECU you got was tuned for the Volga, perhaps the Ford one would be better suited to the Scorpio? The Volga is a heavy lump, perhaps the ECU is different because it's tuned for max economy over performance or something? Sorry if I'm missing something :-/ |
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Title: Re: 2.3 DOHC installation on halt - again Post by pappa on Aug 6th, 2007, 9:40am on 08/06/07 at 09:33:23, TiberiuS wrote:
That's an idea yes. I need many other things as well, but I'll take the Ford route here first. I like these guys a my local Ford, they're very friendly and flexible. Have actually won many prizes in the Ford internal customer service competions. It really shows. If I only had the FDS2000/WDS2000 or like... mmm.... some day, I will get one! |
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Title: Re: 2.3 DOHC installation on halt - again Post by Kjetil S on Aug 6th, 2007, 12:18pm My theory for the time being is that your car was originally wired to use the PATS (ignition, and possibly fuel pump and injectors connected via PATS system) and your new 2.3 doesn't have the PATS link in the ECU, so now your PATS system throws a fit. I would guess rewiring to bypass your PATS module will solve the problem. Then again, swapping for a PATS + ECU pair from another 2.3 may prove easier and should make life more difficult for car thieves. |
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Title: Re: 2.3 DOHC installation on halt - again Post by pappa on Aug 6th, 2007, 12:44pm Kjetil, thanks for that. I agree with your theory and would rather re-wire the system to go without PATS. It is a time consuming task though and I will hear what Ford has to say prior I start making decisions on it. |
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Title: Re: 2.3 DOHC installation on halt - again Post by pappa on Aug 7th, 2007, 8:05pm WELL the Ford said: "I need a set of new keys programmed into the car... bring it over here and we'll do that. If it fails, then you may need some new blank keys to be programmed into it... " I'm pretty sure that's not right, so i'm putting my money on KIMI now. Kimi where are you! :'( |
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Title: Re: 2.3 DOHC installation on halt - Waiting for KI Post by pappa on Aug 8th, 2007, 12:53pm Have continued my crusade on the Scorps and I can hear the fuel injectors activate when I turn on the ignition ??? I just kind of started going through evertyhing again, while waiting Kimi to return to this site and came a across a blown fuse F43, then wiggled the Fuel Injection relay - srrrrr! - activated! :o But it's still not turning on the key. Tried it with a screwdriver directly between the starter motor solenoid and power, the starter turns it just right but still stays dead. I've removed PATS from it. Waiting KIMI's invention - anxiously - and continuing eliminating other obvious things... |
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Title: Re: 2.3 DOHC installation on halt - Waiting for KI Post by pappa on Aug 8th, 2007, 1:43pm Interesting... Opened the hatch over the spark plugs, drew out No. one plug, put a spare spark plug into and then used the screwdriver to power up the starter and turn the engine. Nice beautyfull spark! But it's a non starter anyway. Played with trunk inertia swicth for a while, it works. At least it pops up when you hit it and goes down when you press the button. Anyone got an idea on what's the relay inseide the armrest console? A yellow one, ticks on once you turn the key to Acc I position, ticks again when you try to start. I can hear a zzrrrrrrr! from the engine when I turn on the ignition, it lasts a few seconds then stops. This started today after I had wiggled the Fuel pump relay. But shouldn't the fuel pump sing along all the time when the ignition is on? I can't hear that. Isn't that in the tank? So putting my ear against the tank, I should hear it? The fuses seem all to be fine in aux & main box. I should be working, not here... ;D having this monologue... I'm going grazy soon... :P |
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Title: Re: 2.3 DOHC installation on halt - Waiting for KI Post by Highlander on Aug 8th, 2007, 2:07pm on 08/08/07 at 13:43:48, pappa wrote:
Heated seats ;D Fuel pump is inside the fuel tank and will only run until the fuel pressure is built up, only a second or two usually if the engine isnt started up |
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Title: Re: 2.3 DOHC installation on halt - Waiting for KI Post by pappa on Aug 8th, 2007, 6:38pm Manual Ford T.I.S CD wiring diagrams say that it will run all the time, but then again they told us to remove the rear view mirror UPWARDS too. |
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Title: Re: 2.3 DOHC installation on halt - Waiting for KI Post by pappa on Aug 9th, 2007, 10:42am Woah... Being a desperate soul, I've been tracing back my tracks, thinking of which things have worked and which not. Yesterday I started hearing sssrrrr! after wiggling the Fuel pump relay, this has bothered me all night. "oh no, my fusebox cannot be rotten, it has worked just fine...". Today this, so well known phenomenan, possessed my mind to the point where I just had to go on and rip the aux fuse box out. And guess what? Yeah right... white oxygenated connections, some of them broke off... Did not get any better after removing the first plastic layer under the fusebox, more broken connectors. All in really bad shape. Looks like someone has pee'd in my fusebox ;D Well then, why am so happy then? I don't know :) I have an extra aux. box. It's from a -93 Granny, looks very clean and looks exactly the same as the later one. Had a quick look on the numbers underneath the box, they're the same too. Only noticeably difference where that two fuse holders had plastic blocks in different places than in the later model. I used a knife to scrape them of and I'm going to give it a shot today. Now I'm off to shop to buy some electric cleaning spray, to clean out the white stuff from the connectors... Still would appreciate if KIMI would come on-line, after this has been fixed, I will have the PATS to overcome (I think) Later... |
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Title: Re: 2.3 DOHC installation on halt - Waiting for KI Post by pappa on Aug 9th, 2007, 4:13pm Ok, new fusebox is in place. Seem to have lost the interior lights and door warning lights, but the fusebox from Granny was absolutely new. It seems it has been renewed in the near past of the car. (It's a breaking project, not my every day motoring Granny). Still no go, injectors srrrrrr! and engine turns if power connected directly to starter. Now anxiously waiting if KIMI has really cracked it... :-/ Tried mailing him directly, but his quota is full. Anybody know KIMI? Give him a ring, there's one desperate Scorpio owner here :) |
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Title: Re: 2.3 DOHC installation on halt - Continuing wit Post by pappa on Aug 10th, 2007, 2:12pm Aaaand The Greatest THANKS goes toooo ... KIMI! The engine now turns from the key. That saved me some time. Now ALL I need to do is to start sorting out the C113 to C112 conversion. Only one wire is in the same place in 24V and in 16V. I spent quite a lot of time cutting and pasting the Wiring diagrams into a map of starting & ignition system last night. Lots of work has been done and a lot remains... Will keep you posted. |
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Title: Re: 2.3 DOHC installation on halt - sorted Post by Octavian_P on Aug 10th, 2007, 3:26pm When i rewired the engine loom on my cossie i had the impression that the pins from a connector could come out. Maybe it's easier for you to move the pins with the wires that are already there. For example the ECT, TPS, IAC. You only need to double check the polarity etc. |
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Title: Re: 2.3 DOHC installation on halt - sorted Post by pappa on Aug 10th, 2007, 4:14pm Thanks Octavian, I've got a remedy - the guy who I sold my Cossie engine to has a wiring loom for me. (because I sold it with the engine, thinking I could just plug everything into the existing 24V loom, which looked SO so the same... boy was I wrong). Ok, it will take a lot of time, but I'm going to remove the current engine & gearbox wiring looms, then wait for the new one to come back to me (stupid me, I might add) and then put it in. At least I now have a "from the key turning engine to work with" :D |
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Title: Re: 2.3 DOHC installation on halt - sorted Post by kimi on Aug 11th, 2007, 2:51am Hi Pappa I'm glad your engine is turning over now , you should also have sparks at the plugs and fuel from the injectors now you used the bypass. ....Kimi.... |
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Title: Re: 2.3 DOHC installation on halt - sorted Post by pappa on Aug 17th, 2007, 4:45pm IT'S WORKING! ;D http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=Advice;action=display;num=1185779308 |
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