Ford Scorpio Forum - Print Page


    
      
        Ford Scorpio Forum
        (https://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl)
      

        General >> Problems >> Help scorpio won`t start
        
(Message started by: a11mcr on Dec 11^th, 2007, 6:03pm)

Title: Help scorpio won`t start
Post by a11mcr on Dec 11^th, 2007, 6:03pm

Hi all got up this morning to find the thing won`t start? :'(
There is fuel but no spark at the plugs ??? now i have checked the resistance of the cam sensor (365 ohms) and the crank sensor (445 ohms) are these normal?. Also there is 12V at both coil packs. (all the wiring on the loom has been replaced with new cable and plugs).
Now someone said it could be the immobiliser or the main ecu any help will be greatly received :D

Title: Re: Help scorpio won`t start
Post by a11mcr on Dec 11^th, 2007, 6:48pm

Forgot to mention when connected to my laptop via the OBD socket it shows no fault codes ???

Title: Re: Help scorpio won`t start
Post by Simmo on Dec 11^th, 2007, 6:50pm

The first thing to do is charge the battery or jump start it. These cars require a large amount of power to start them even if they do 'turn over'. Do the 'needles' on the dash dials fly round ?. That is a sure sign of a failing battery. Is there any sign of oil from the steering reservoir on the large connector beneath it bolted on to the inner wing. This unit is held together by a bolt so it is easy to identify. Check it for corrosion if that seems a likely cause.

Just got your update. If it shows no faults that usually indicates a wiring type problem. ie; not a defective sensor, if I understand the system correctly.

Title: Re: Help scorpio won`t start
Post by a11mcr on Dec 11^th, 2007, 6:54pm

I did have to jump it off and it turns over great.
the big connector is fine (just replaced last week).
every thing was fine last night but got up this morning and nothing ???
Mark

Title: Re: Help scorpio won`t start
Post by Snoopy on Dec 11^th, 2007, 8:31pm

When you say NOTHING do you mean its lost all its charge ot just will not start????

Explain better please .

Title: Re: Help scorpio won`t start
Post by a11mcr on Dec 11^th, 2007, 9:01pm

Hi to explain better.
When i got in the car this morning it would not start, it turns over fine and there is fuel to the injectors but no spark at the plugs!
OBD says no fault codes
All wires connected and checked
Plugs only two weeks old
so no idea why no spark?
cheers
mark

Title: Re: Help scorpio won`t start
Post by jonnycab on Dec 11^th, 2007, 9:30pm

With all the rain we've had recently, then is it possible that the battery side fusebox has got damp or water has dripped through the bulkhead & got on the PCM ? :-/

Title: Re: Help scorpio won`t start
Post by a11mcr on Dec 11^th, 2007, 9:31pm

Thanks will have a look tomorrow and let you know.
Mark

Title: Re: Help scorpio won`t start
Post by Simmo on Dec 11^th, 2007, 10:11pm

Do you have the battery cover fitted? and are the drain holes in the bulkhead clear. Is the carpet wet in the passenger footwell below the glove box?. This (http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/battery.htm) might help.

Title: Re: Help scorpio won`t start
Post by Highlander on Dec 11^th, 2007, 10:11pm

Check fuses F31, F34, F37

www.fordscorpio.co.uk/images/battery_fusebox.gif

Make sure the multiplug on the EDIS unit behind the o/s headlight bolted to the wing is on ok, you can just see it below the front of the coolant reservoir if you pull back the screenwash reservoir

Title: Re: Help scorpio won`t start
Post by a11mcr on Dec 11^th, 2007, 10:21pm

What is the EDIS unit? also no battery cover but the carpet is bone dry.
Will check the fuses tommorrw.
Thanks

Title: Re: Help scorpio won`t start
Post by Highlander on Dec 11^th, 2007, 10:22pm

Electronic Distributerless Ignition System or something close to that :)

Title: Re: Help scorpio won`t start
Post by a11mcr on Dec 11^th, 2007, 10:37pm

Is it a big green thing (looks like a big relay?) as thats the only thing i can see on that side with a big torch ::)

Title: Re: Help scorpio won`t start
Post by Highlander on Dec 11^th, 2007, 10:40pm

no thats your fan relay, its bolted to the inner wing, left a bit , up a bit and back a bit ;D

Title: Re: Help scorpio won`t start
Post by Highlander on Dec 11^th, 2007, 10:44pm

Check fuses 16 and 17 too

http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/images/central_fusebox.gif

And try locking the car then unlocking it, incase your alarm is operating but the horn has been disconnected.

Using the right keys?? (I have done this) }{

Title: Re: Help scorpio won`t start
Post by Simmo on Dec 11^th, 2007, 10:49pm

Read my earlier reply (2) re the connector on the inner wing and have a look at THIS (http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/23looms.htm) I think this is the EDIS and if you look at the diagram and the table you will see that the two coil packs are controlled via this unit.

Title: Re: Help scorpio won`t start
Post by a11mcr on Dec 12^th, 2007, 12:02am

Hi i braved the ice :P and had a look at the EDIS and it all seems ok (the connector is on tight) so ??????

Title: Re: Help scorpio won`t start
Post by Simmo on Dec 12^th, 2007, 7:28am

It may look ok but you may have corrosion on the pins inside. Just separate the unit and check it out and perhaps use a drop of WD40 if it appears necessary.

Title: Re: Help scorpio won`t start
Post by a11mcr on Dec 12^th, 2007, 10:26am

Woke up this morning
went out to the car and scraped all the ice of it ,got in and guess what ::) It started first time on the button ??? but i am still no further on why it would not start yesterday :-/
Mark

Title: Re: Help scorpio won`t start
Post by a11mcr on Dec 12^th, 2007, 11:51am

Wont start again :( :( if i lock the car and open it it wont start so i have to dissconnect the battery wait a few mins and then it will start??? but as soon as i lock it then i have the same problem it does the same wether i use the key or remote as anyone else had the same problem because i am getting a bit p****d off now >:(

Title: Re: Help scorpio won`t start
Post by Highlander on Dec 12^th, 2007, 1:23pm

Is your PATS led on the dash flashing a code?

Title: Re: Help scorpio won`t start
Post by a11mcr on Dec 12^th, 2007, 2:04pm

No flashing LED ,now even if i dont lock it but leave the car for about 15 mins then it still has problems? checked all fuses and relays and they are all fine all connecrors are fine but sometimes it will have no problems at all ???

Title: Re: Help scorpio won`t start
Post by mr._floppy on Dec 12^th, 2007, 2:14pm

Sorry, did you say you got a jump start or tried a fresh battery ?

Title: Re: Help scorpio won`t start
Post by a11mcr on Dec 12^th, 2007, 6:12pm

Right bought a new battery this morning but it still does it if i leave it it wont start if i disconnect/reconnect the batery it will start >:(.
Now i have noticed that the kick down no longer works ??? could this be down to the PCM or CCM or the main ECU as this has got me beat :P and i am so close to wrapping it around a tree ::)

Title: Re: Help scorpio won`t start
Post by a11mcr on Dec 13^th, 2007, 11:00am

Right!! plugged in the OBD using scantool.net and it comes up with no fault codes if i disconnect a sensor the fault codes will show (for that sensor) so i clear them and start the car (which still wont start unless i disconnect the batery for a miniute) it seems to me this has somthing to do with a memory problem in the ECU or may be some relay in the fuse box (any ideas which one??).
Do you think a good auto electrician could sort it?? as i have tried everything and its is to good to scrap it!! (may sell for spares/repair :'().
Mark

Title: Re: Help scorpio won`t start
Post by Alastair on Dec 13^th, 2007, 1:59pm

Hi Mark

Yes to a good Auto electrician ( Automotive Diagnostic Specialist ) or try : -
www.ecu-solutions.co.uk.

Good luck

Alastair

Title: Re: Help scorpio won`t start
Post by Tompion on Dec 13^th, 2007, 6:32pm

Re the kickdown not working, make sure the mats not moved under the pedal, quite a common reason.

Title: Re: Help scorpio won`t start
Post by a11mcr on Dec 13^th, 2007, 7:19pm

it seems as if it running in limp mode ???
does anyone know if an ECU from a 2.0 will work on the 2.3 and if so does anyone have a cheap one for sale that i can try (at least i can rule that out!!Spoken to 2 local auto electricians (one ex ford for 35 years ) and none of them had heard of this and got them beat (next stop, Chris Tarrent) also he said it may be the immobliser (but not the PATS one he said there is a bosch one fitted and causes a lot of problems on the scorpios).
cheers
mark ;)

Title: Re: Help scorpio won`t start
Post by gozz on Dec 13^th, 2007, 8:51pm

The Bosch ones were fitted to the GRANADA Scorpio and were indeed a tremendous nuisance when engaged on a funeral.I removed all mine on the earlier fleet and bypassed em.
Keep at it Mark,don't be beaten
GOZZ

Title: Re: Help scorpio won`t start
Post by a11mcr on Dec 14^th, 2007, 12:24am

Is the bosch one still fitted n the 1996 (P) models and if so how do i bypass it ??? ???.
i will keep trying but cant afford to shell out much more,not even started christmas shopping yet (not even for the missus!!).
As long as keep a 13mm spanner in the door pouch i will be ok for now :-/.
Mark

Title: Re: Help scorpio won`t start
Post by Highlander on Dec 14^th, 2007, 7:57am

PM sent

Title: Re: Help scorpio won`t start
Post by a11mcr on Dec 14^th, 2007, 9:29am

Aswell as no spark at the coils i have found is there is fuel going to the injector rail but not through the injectors (even if i crank it for ages the plugs are bone dry?) so it seems its either the PATS or the EEC V PCM ???
Many thanks
Mark

Title: Re: Help scorpio won`t start
Post by a11mcr on Dec 14^th, 2007, 10:18am

Update?
on the - side of the battery there are 3 black wires 1 thick and 2 thin ones if i remove them all it will start so i tried leaving the thick one connected and removing the two thin ones and again it will start so from what i can see the two thin ones go into the car through the bulkhead (maybe for the ECU and electrics) so it is looking more likely an ECU or PATS fault as it is runnig rough and very bad MPG (as if in limp mode) but still no DTCs from the OBD.
So i am going to my local breakers to get a replacement ECU and try it (but from a 2.0L).
Mark

Title: Re: Help scorpio won`t start
Post by Jim on Dec 14^th, 2007, 11:11am

If the small -ve wires are not connected at the battery the engine should not start . This means that the earth is being picked up else where. Check again for water ingress and damaged wiring.

Title: Re: Help scorpio won`t start
Post by a11mcr on Dec 14^th, 2007, 5:36pm

Hi Jim that is not what i ment i have to re-connect the two thin wires and it will start so it means that it is resetting somthing when power is removed and once i turn off the ignition it wont start again untill i remove the wires from the battery and reconnect them (this is one good immobliser!!).
I still have the problem with no pickup and a bit rough idle other than this its great (for now???).
This must be the most puzzeling problem for you guys to-date but thanks for all your help so far but keep it comming ;D ;D.
mark

Title: Re: Help scorpio won`t start
Post by gozz on Dec 14^th, 2007, 10:19pm

Mark.
No all Scorps hav PATS,the abortious Bosch finished with the Granada Scorpio.It contained two tiny mechanical relays and a poor PCB,there were two buttons only on the key fob,and you could here it click when unlock was pressed,down on a bracket behind and below left of the radio on the transmission tunnel.Iwont bore you with the trauma of it,s removal,cause you aint got one mate.
Keep at it GOZZ.

Title: Re: Help scorpio won`t start
Post by a11mcr on Dec 14^th, 2007, 11:03pm

just returned from a 100 mile round trip in it when i arrived i switched of the key and tried to start it agian but would not have it so of came the battery lead and try again but still nothing so i left it off for ten mins and it fired first time ???.
This is getting beoynd a joke as its -2oC and every time i want to go any where its off with the battery lead.
Mark

Title: Re: Help scorpio won`t start
Post by a11mcr on Dec 14^th, 2007, 11:04pm

By the way apart from the kickdown not working it drove great (32 mpg) better then i have since i bought it ??? ???

Title: Re: Help scorpio won`t start
Post by Jim on Dec 15^th, 2007, 12:53am

Many of the scorpio functions are interlinked, even unexpected ones ( radio and speed sensor [vss] for example). Try removing and replacing each relay in turn and try to start the engine. It may give an indication of the area where the fault is.

Title: Re: Help scorpio won`t start
Post by Highlander on Dec 16^th, 2007, 1:32pm

Why not install a battery cut off switch inside the glove box ;)

Title: Re: Help scorpio won`t start
Post by mr._floppy on Dec 16^th, 2007, 4:44pm

Everything is worth a try at this desperate stage.

As it's summat to do with the immobiliser/PATS, how about checking the bonnet switch ? it could be faulty. :-/

Title: Re: Help scorpio won`t start
Post by a11mcr on Dec 16^th, 2007, 7:32pm

Hi all just an update.
Went out saturday morning and is started first time and has dne so ever since even the kickdown is working great ;D.
So i have no idea what was wrong but its ok (for now). Will let you all know if it starts acting up again.
Many thanks for all your help and advice.

Hope you all have a great christmas and new year

Mark

Title: Re: Help scorpio won`t start
Post by Dave on Dec 16^th, 2007, 9:41pm

Excellent news 8)

Well done!

Title: Re: Help scorpio won`t start
Post by peteHull on Dec 17^th, 2007, 6:15am

Hi Flop,

Looks like the Scorpio gremlin busters have been acting on your behalf then.... ;D ...... great ti hear bud

Pete

Title: Re: Help scorpio won`t start
Post by Snoopy on Dec 17^th, 2007, 7:56am

Its been dry for a few days are you sure it is NOT water ingress related.... It will be interesting to see if it returns when the rain returns..