Ford Scorpio Forum - Print Page


    
      
        Ford Scorpio Forum
        (https://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl)
      

        General >> Problems >> Cosworth into Stag
        
(Message started by: phildx on Jan 3^rd, 2008, 12:14am)

Title: Cosworth into Stag
Post by phildx on Jan 3^rd, 2008, 12:14am

Hi, I am new to the site and still trying to find my way round !

I am having a 24v Cossie engine/auto-box fitted into my Triumph Stag.

The people doing it have fitted the mechanics plus EEC-V and wiring loom as required.

The problem is there is no PATS system fitted to the Stag so they are trying to work out how to make the EEC think all is ok and allow the engine to start and run.

There seem little info on PATS to work out to simulate the signal to wherever in the EEC.

I followed a link to get PATS info but the message keeps coming as undelivered !

Any body any ideas ?

Phil

Title: Re: Cosworth into Stag
Post by Highlander on Jan 3^rd, 2008, 12:44am

pm sent

Title: Re: Cosworth into Stag
Post by Highlander on Jan 3^rd, 2008, 1:01am

Hi Phil, got your PM, go to the top right of this page and click on the bit that says

Hey, Philx, you have 1 messages.

Title: Re: Cosworth into Stag
Post by Jaye_Martin on Jan 3^rd, 2008, 10:41pm

keep the stag as original
..although the stag engine suffered with cooling/heating/timing chains etc you will def half its value by altering it.
I know, having just fully rebuilt my 76 Mk2, taking out a three litre capri lump and reverting it.

Title: Re: Cosworth into Stag
Post by tintin on Jan 4^th, 2008, 6:05pm

i thought most of them had the rover V8 in them, these days. cossie is ambitious, but way cool ;D although perhaps not as reliable/cheap as the V8....

Title: Re: Cosworth into Stag
Post by Highlander on Jan 4^th, 2008, 7:40pm

I bet it'll shift though ;D

Title: Re: Cosworth into Stag
Post by phildx on Jan 5^th, 2008, 5:17pm

My ongoing enquiries have established that there are a few basic facts/rules with the BOB & EEC-V set up if you want it to work.

1. PATS cannot be removed from this set up.
2. If the auto-box is used and it does not have its
own EEC the problems magnify.
3. Autos reliant on EEC-V must have PATS retained.
OR
Use EEC-IV, associated loom(may need mods) and either manual box or earlier auto with its own ECU.

In my case 2. applies, typical ! , therefore the next step is to tranfer the PATS into the Stag.

Easier said then done !
Oh for a wiring diagram of PATS, but I can't get a reply from the Admin of Scorpio.co who I believe have the necessary info, not encouraging for donations!

Phil

Title: Re: Cosworth into Stag
Post by TiberiuS on Jan 5^th, 2008, 5:31pm

Have you thought about an aftermarket ECU and just doing away with the PATS etc?

I know little or nothing about the aftermarket tuning scene but I'm always seeing people having engines modified with different ECUs, if so you could probably squeeze a lot more from the 24v lump than 207bhp...I guess it all depends on your budget too :-/

Title: Re: Cosworth into Stag
Post by jonnycab on Jan 6^th, 2008, 1:29am

If the Stag does have the Rover V8 fitted, then why do you want to change it ?

Surely adding (for instance) a new, modified inlet manifold & holley carbs etc... would be alot cheaper & easier, & give more HP than a cossie engine ;)

And what about the loss of classic car value.....who would want to buy a Stag with a Cossie engine fitted ? ???

It's worth alot more with the original spec engine...or maybe more if the original spec engine has been uprated ;)

Sounds like a lot of work for little gain to me :)

Title: Re: Cosworth into Stag
Post by Highlander on Jan 6^th, 2008, 2:30am

Maybe there wasnt an engine in it when he got it
Maybe the engine was beyond repair
Maybe he would just like a 24v in it
And Maybe its just because this isnt Russia and he can do what he likes! ;D

Title: Re: Cosworth into Stag
Post by taliban aka Cheekyboy2 on Jan 6^th, 2008, 2:39am

im with jonny on this,
if the original engine has had it, then it has to be the v8, it has too have the v8 rumble, putting a cossie in it will make it sound like a ducati with a vespa engine in it....

Title: Re: Cosworth into Stag
Post by phildx on Jan 6^th, 2008, 6:17am

Guys a mixed reaction, for the record :-

I bought the car late October, body fully restored, fitted with a Essex 3 litre and a 3 speed auto box. The car had not been on the road for several years.

On getting it transported back I found the head gaskets were blown !

Since it had a Ford V6 in it I thought lets replace it with something powerful !

If I could turn the clock back and recover the money invested I would no doubt go for the Rover V8.

Isn't hindsight wonderful ?

Title: Re: Cosworth into Stag
Post by nice_1 on Jan 6^th, 2008, 2:48pm

I admire what you doing. your reasoning is, because had a ford engine you want to put another ford in it. unless I had a complete cosworth car as a donor car. I would go for an american 289,302 or 351 to keep it FORD. They are compact weigh about the same as the V6, lighter with Ali heads. infinatley tuneable. you'd face less problems regarding fuel issues i.e injection. although later cars with these engines were injected. They put out way more power than any UK ford engine and Sound awsome. No contest. 8).......Thats just my opinion.

Title: Re: Cosworth into Stag
Post by tintin on Jan 6^th, 2008, 3:27pm

yep, the stags were original with a triumph 3.0l V8. they were unreliable and very prone to overheating. the rover V8 was very similar (and bigger) so only minor changes to "convert". more power and more reliable, most owners used that lump.

if yours is already converted to the ford way, then agree stick with that.

http://www.classicandsportscar.com/profile_summary.asp?RT_ID=212690&page=TM

Title: Re: Cosworth into Stag
Post by v4-max aka Cheekyboy1 on Jan 6^th, 2008, 6:06pm

8) 8)dont let the purists put you off, stick the cossie in. good luck with it. 8) 8)

Title: Re: Cosworth into Stag
Post by Jaye_Martin on Jan 6^th, 2008, 9:29pm

NAH..putting a V8 rOVER IN IT GIVES IT A POWER BULGE ON THE BONNET AND THE CAR LOOKS JANK THEN.
The original Triumph V8 was problematic. however putting in a 12 vein water pump instead of 8 vein, running the car on virtually neat antifreeze coolant, changing the oil every 3k made it more reliable ..oh and the timing chains every 35k

The engine was considered to be two Dolomite engines strapped together, or Saab...but the reason the car was so unreliable in the 70's and 80's was due to the owners thinking they were racing cars, and caning them and not servicing them correctly

They developed approx 145 bhp with the manual only just reaching 120mph

Putting a capri 3ltr into it or any other configuration halved the value and still reflects that.

Trust me I know

I have an original still in my garage having covered 65k from new and still going strong

Title: Re: Cosworth into Stag - UPDATE
Post by phildx on Jan 9^th, 2008, 4:24pm

Today I heard the Costag or Stagworth running !

Done by wiring PATS into Stag so it become a standalone imobiliser, ignition via the Stag key.

Hope to be able to road test by the weekend. ;D

Title: Re: Cosworth into Stag
Post by SCORPY_NEWBY on Jan 9^th, 2008, 6:55pm

I used to have a white 1972 mk1 stag with the origonal engine until three months ago and i have to agree with jaye_martin on this one. They were only troublesome if you gave them abuse unlike a scorp which does it all of its own accord ;) I think its a fantastic idea putting the cossie lump in. Why be a sheep? stick your neck out and try something different! Well done that man!!! ;D

Title: Re: Cosworth into Stag
Post by Highlander on Jan 9^th, 2008, 9:44pm

Lets see some pics Phil ;D

Title: Re: Cosworth into Stag
Post by taliban aka Cheekyboy2 on Jan 9^th, 2008, 11:24pm

[quote

Isn't hindsight wonderful ?
[/quote]

pmsl, i've thought that when my divorces came through ::)

Title: Re: Cosworth into Stag
Post by Highlander on Jan 10^th, 2008, 9:42am

Divorces?? plural?? ;D

Title: Re: Cosworth into Stag
Post by taliban aka Cheekyboy2 on Jan 10^th, 2008, 8:03pm

yes plural......

Title: Re: Cosworth into Stag
Post by Highlander on Jan 10^th, 2008, 9:12pm

Well if you get divorcd once you can blame the wife but twice.... ;)

Title: Re: Cosworth into Stag
Post by taliban aka Cheekyboy2 on Jan 10^th, 2008, 10:21pm

aye......but i could try blaming an empty bottle of pussers....