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        General >> Problems >> Autobox problems
        
(Message started by: trol on Mar 10^th, 2008, 9:04pm)

Title: Autobox problems
Post by trol on Mar 10^th, 2008, 9:04pm

The autobox in my 12v Cologne is acting weird.

When cold it doesn't engage, only after putting the stick in P, N and D a couple of times, pushing the gas pedal also helps a lot.

When warm it gets better unless I have to wait for a traffic light. Most of the times it only picks up after I push the gas a little bit.
When driving normally all is ok, but when the pedal hits the metal it goes bananas, staying far too long in second gear, shifts to third and overdive right after third.

Also I get the impression the box is slipping, it uses more gas than my old MK3 Cologne

The shifting itself feels ok, nice and smooth.
The oil is red and there's enough of it.

I'm hoping it's a sensor or solenoid, what do you guys think?

Title: Re: Autobox problems
Post by Simmo on Mar 10^th, 2008, 10:06pm

Try reading through the Automatic gearbox section HERE (http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/faultfinds.htm).

Title: Re: Autobox problems
Post by Tompion on Mar 10^th, 2008, 10:18pm

One thing that springs to mind as you say the oil is clean. If it’s had an oil & filter change, the original filter bolt needs to be shorter for the new filter otherwise it won’t seal properly.

Title: Re: Autobox problems
Post by Snoopy on Mar 11^th, 2008, 7:25am

Could be somethingas simple as brake bands need adjusting , but it its like that from cold does sound more like a sticking solenoid or as suggested above ...BUT check the oil level carefully when HOT and engine running LOW ATF fluid cause symptoms like you describe.

Title: Re: Autobox problems
Post by Simmo on Mar 11^th, 2008, 7:43am

Details of the Brake bands etc is all HERE (http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/autotrans.htm). :)

Title: Re: Autobox problems
Post by trol on Mar 11^th, 2008, 4:27pm

Errrr :-/
Just bought a bottle of fluid, its very red.
Compared to this, the oil in my box looks brown.
Time for a rebuild I guess ;D

Title: Re: Autobox problems
Post by Snoopy on Mar 11^th, 2008, 7:04pm

Maybe just a filter and ATF fluid change will cure your problems ....

Cheaper than a rebuild and easier to do . and with the 12v the exhaust does NOT need to be removed to get the gearbox sump off .. Make sure everything is kept VERY VERY CLEAN.... Good luck

Title: Re: Autobox problems
Post by trol on Mar 11^th, 2008, 7:14pm

Thanks, I will give it a try :)

Title: Re: Autobox problems
Post by stevie on Mar 12^th, 2008, 1:20am

i,v just had my box fluid and filter changed as i was experiencing the same problems and since the change all is well the fluid in my box was nearly black i,m changing it again in a week to make sure all the old is flushed out dont despair things always seem worse than they acctually are good luck

Title: Re: Autobox problems
Post by Octavian_P on Mar 13^th, 2008, 8:27am

I also had huge problems with my cossie auto box, slippage, thumps, reversing taking 2 seconds to engage etc. It was all fixed with a partial oil change. The oil in the box was black but was still smelling mineral. I have added a supplementary cooler and i'll change the oil again. It's now smooth as silk, no slippage, nu thumps, reverse engages instantly. So before doing major work on the box, do a proper oil/filter change.

Ohh i need to mention that on diverse specifications of auto boxes and ATF oil it's stated that the friction modifiers oin the oil lose their properties and the oil also oxidate at about 60.000 km ~ 37.500 miles. A major factor in oil oxidation is temperature. 9 from 10 boxes fail and need overhauling because of overheating and oil loosing it's properties.

PS: I found that Valvoline makes an ATF Dexron 3 / Mercon oil with the exact specification of the Scorpio auto box (for early models) (build date up to August ’96) ESP-M2C166-H

Title: Re: Autobox problems
Post by Scorpio_Mike on Mar 13^th, 2008, 10:38am

Interesting feature I found on a website :

As a rule of thumb, every 20 degree increase in operating temperature above 175 degrees F. cuts the life of the fluid in half!

At 195 degrees F., for instance, fluid life is reduced to 50,000 miles. At 220 degrees, which is commonly encountered in many transmissions, the fluid is only good for about 25,000 miles. At 240 degrees F., the fluid won't go much over 10,000 miles. Add another 20 degrees, and life expectancy drops to 5,000 miles. Go to 295 or 300 degrees F., and 1,000 to 1,500 miles is about all you'll get before the transmission burns up.

Title: Re: Autobox problems
Post by Octavian_P on Mar 13^th, 2008, 11:37am

...and 175 degrees F means 79.4 degrees C. Have you ever touched a cossie auto box radiator ? Well it will take away you skin !!!

Ford has given a TSB regarding 2.0 and 2.9 I models to have a auxiliary cooling radiator, not to talk about the 2.5 TD Scorpio which has a huge radiator and an electric fan. So it seems after all that the box on the Scorpio is not such a bad unit, only that it's cooling capability was designed by an accountant with economy in mind !

Title: Re: Autobox problems
Post by Dave2302 on Mar 16^th, 2008, 6:39pm

:o

All very well but what everybody always forgets before imparting advice on these units is 3 major issues:-

1) 2.9 12v has only 2 solenoids, 1 for converter lock and the other for 4th gear so sticking solenoids is out of the question here.

2) Contaminated, or dirty, oil is due to particles of friction material which has worn off the linings. An oil change wont replace worn linings.

3) Unless it's been fiddled with, brake bands will not need adjusting during the life of the transmission.

HTH

Regards Dave

Title: Re: Autobox problems
Post by trol on Apr 14^th, 2008, 6:02pm

Found the problem:
There's ATF in the vacuum pipe to the engine ;D

Title: Re: Autobox problems
Post by stevie on Apr 14^th, 2008, 8:58pm

forgive my ignorance but where is the vacuum pipe what is it what does it do nd how does it affect the auto box ,most importantly of all how easy expensive is it to rectify ;D ??? ;D ??? :-[

Title: Re: Autobox problems
Post by trol on Apr 14^th, 2008, 10:32pm

Read this topic :D
http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=Advice;action=display;num=1161198219;start=

Title: Re: Autobox problems
Post by blue2 on Apr 16^th, 2008, 8:54pm

Re Fluid in the Vac pipe to the engine - as you probably now know the diaphragm in the modulator valve on the side of the box has sprung a lealkand the engine is happily sucking in and burning the ATF - will also mess up the changes of course. I had this problem on an earlier 12V Granada - not too dificult to get at on the 12V I think, not heard of this problem for a long time. :) :)

Title: Re: Autobox problems
Post by blue2 on Apr 16^th, 2008, 9:34pm

Ref lCossie 24V Box, had an intermittent problem with poor gear changes for a couple of years now but worse since beginning of this year and the speedo started reading low when cold (OK after 20 Mins running). Speedo problem led me to checking the VSS (NO Error Codes logged) but driving with OBD-2 package connected showed varying output. Replacing the VSS has cured all the gearbox problems and fixed the Speedo. I had previously cleaned/swopped the MAF and checked all the wiring but found no problem with these. Strangely enough I had the VSS fail on my older 12V Granada only 6 months ago - they both now have the new plastic type.
BTW - I am logged as a Newbie but just because I only recently rejoined this forum - actually an early contributor to the site & loads of experience on 6 cylinder Fords.
Anyhow if you have autobox problems and the old metal typ VSS it is worth a good check - it works at very low speeds and should give 8 pulses per revolution.

Title: Re: Autobox problems
Post by Octavian_P on Apr 17^th, 2008, 4:09pm

@ stevie

There are two types of boxes on the scorpio, as i remember you have a 2.3 which means that it equipped withe the A4LDE which is electronically controlled so there's no vacuum on it. Same goes for the 2.0 and the 2.9 24V. Only the 2.9 12V has vacuum and i believe the diesel versions are the same.