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        General >> Problems >> sunroof prob and grinding brakes???
        
(Message started by: tezzabuckle on Mar 30th, 2008, 8:05pm)
Title: sunroof prob and grinding brakes???
Post by tezzabuckle on Mar 30th, 2008, 8:05pm
Hi,
I'm brand new to this forum and I have purchased a P reg scorpio 2.3 ghia saloon for 500 quid. Obviously i dont mind the odd bits that need doing, but.....
the sunroof dosen't open tilt or slide. It begins to move slightly and then it seems to stop and you can hear the motor trying to move it, but just goes 'brrrrrrrr'. The brakes make similar noises but I can feel the grind  under the pedal. After browsing I can only find warped discs on the site, but dosen't feel like a warped feeling. More like a knocking or something catching. I fear if i press too hard something will snap. Braking at speed is ok, it happens more at slow turning speed.
The clutch has a slight growling feel to it too don't know if it's connected in any way. Its like i can feel the cogs turning under the clutch and brake.
Doeas that make any sense? I hope it does to someone.
Thanks
Tezza ???
Title: Re: sunroof prob and grinding brakes???
Post by Geoff_W on Mar 30th, 2008, 8:49pm
Welcome Tezz

Sounds like the nylon socket in the sunroof motor is in the process of stripping.

However if you have some movement, it may be worth you trying to lube the sunroof mechanism have a look at this link  http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/sunroof.htm

The brake and clutch vibrations through the pedals might be down to driving in your socks, seriously if you are feeling a grind then you need to get that checked out pdq, if you are down to metal you will end up need ing new discs if you do not get on with it.

If you are not particularly mechanical it may be worth taking it into somewhere such as Kwik Fit who do free brake checks and have just started to give a lifetime guarantee on brake repairs. If they tell you that there is a problem ask them to show you.

On the clutch front the manual box on the Scorpio was not one of its best features. If you can change gear OK and there is no slippage it will probably be fine. However the growling sound may be a worn spigot bearing which can make it progressively more difficult to select gear.  At something in the order of 240k miles on my 16 valve the box is run in. I can get my gear lever to make growling noises if I drive around with my hand resting on the lever, which indicates synchromesh wear but is more about old age than anything else.
Title: Re: sunroof prob and grinding brakes???
Post by Tompion on Mar 31st, 2008, 1:01pm
With regard the brakes, if it feels a bit like a ratchet & as if it's pushing back it can be caused by dirty ABS sensor/sensor ring. Does your ABS work?
Does it only happen when turning? and does it matter which way?
Title: Re: sunroof prob and grinding brakes???
Post by Simmo on Mar 31st, 2008, 2:01pm
A common cause of the roof jamming is also the rubber sealing strip swelling up at the back usually because of rust underneath.
Title: Re: sunroof prob and grinding brakes???
Post by davem on Mar 31st, 2008, 5:15pm
Regard the brakes, I would check the brake pads ASAP. The Scorp never had dashboard illumination for worn brake pads  :'(
Title: Re: sunroof prob and grinding brakes???
Post by savvy on Mar 31st, 2008, 7:14pm

on 03/31/08 at 14:01:13, Simmo wrote:
A common cause of the roof jamming is also the rubber sealing strip swelling up at the back usually because of rust underneath.


This is why my sunroof only slides back and doesn't tilt. Is there a way to fix it?
Title: Re: sunroof prob and grinding brakes???
Post by harry.m1byt on Mar 31st, 2008, 9:30pm
If the sealing strip is the cause, it will be fairly obvious. If you close it and look at the middle of the rear edge, you will see the join of the strip - this is where they usually rust under the strip which swells the strip out and jams it.

On a dry day, or in the garage - try pushing the rear edge of the lens up to help it, as you operate the button. Once tilted up, you should be able to see the rust damage easily.

You can make a temporary fix by cleaning the rust off and applying some Curerust type solution allowing it to dry, then re-glueing the seal back with contact adhesive. The only permanent cure is a complete sound replacement lens.  
Title: Re: sunroof prob and grinding brakes???
Post by tezzabuckle on Mar 31st, 2008, 10:19pm

on 03/31/08 at 13:01:18, Tompion wrote:
With regard the brakes, if it feels a bit like a ratchet & as if it's pushing back it can be caused by dirty ABS sensor/sensor ring. Does your ABS work?
Does it only happen when turning? and does it matter which way?

It happens both ways but more when i turn left.
Title: Re: sunroof prob and grinding brakes???
Post by mijfife on Apr 1st, 2008, 9:59am
The complete sunroof assembly is surprisingly easy to replace if you can find a better one on an other car. I changed the one on my TD estate as it had the rusty rear seal problem and the one on the spares car was perfect. It was simply a case of opening the sunroof fully to reveal the screws and removing the inner plastic cover to undo the motor (3 screws and wiring multiplug) Tape a bit of cloth around the sunroof aperture to protect the paint, remove all the visible screws and the sunroof assembly should jiggle up and forward out of the car.
Cheers Jim
Title: Re: sunroof prob and grinding brakes???
Post by joe-satch on Apr 1st, 2008, 3:34pm
Hi all,regarding tezzs problem,our daughter had the same problem....the glass roof section at the back, the seal was swollen with rust...i just swapped over the glass roof....oiled the cable etc..now works as it should.so another job done.. :).regards den.
Title: Re: sunroof prob and grinding brakes???
Post by savvy on Apr 1st, 2008, 6:24pm

on 04/01/08 at 15:34:04, joe-satch wrote:
Hi all,regarding tezzs problem,our daughter had the same problem....the glass roof section at the back, the seal was swollen with rust...i just swapped over the glass roof....oiled the cable etc..now works as it should.so another job done.. :).regards den.


Might spend Saturday morning at our local scrappy trying this out. They got a couple there with keys and battery in tact, cheers for the tip!
Title: Re: sunroof prob and grinding brakes???
Post by mijfife on Apr 2nd, 2008, 12:15am
You don't need to worry about keys or batteries, just remove the three screws holding the sunroof motor in place and you can move the sunroof back and forward by hand  :)

Cheers Jim
Title: Re: sunroof prob and grinding brakes???
Post by tezzabuckle on Apr 2nd, 2008, 10:54am
Does any one else have a solution on the brakes? I have now noticed at very slow speeds that i can hear and feel them grinding(at least i think its the brakes) without pressing the brake pedal.
Title: Re: sunroof prob and grinding brakes???
Post by davem on Apr 2nd, 2008, 11:29am
Have you checked the brake pads?
Title: Re: sunroof prob and grinding brakes???
Post by gozz on Apr 2nd, 2008, 10:16pm
tezzabuckle.
Have you jacked it up and checked the wheel bearings?If not I would advise immediate attention in that direction!
                                        GOZZ
Title: Re: sunroof prob and grinding brakes???
Post by tezzabuckle on Apr 3rd, 2008, 8:49pm
Hi Dave m  and gozz,
I have checked the pads and they look fine. discs look fine. How do i check the bearings?anyone?
Title: Re: sunroof prob and grinding brakes???
Post by harry.m1byt on Apr 5th, 2008, 8:34am
Lift each corner of the car in turn and for each wheel try pulling bottom of wheel whilst pushing top, change to pulling top pushing bottom and swap over rapidly. See if you can find any movement at all. Try the same thing side to side of each wheel.

Now try rotating the wheel and feel for any sense of roughness in the wheels rotation. With the brake pads in place there will be some roughness, but the trick is to decide is it the pads rubbing or bearing roughness. For the rears it will need to be in nuetral and you will be turning the entire drive train.
Title: Re: sunroof prob and grinding brakes???
Post by peteHull on Apr 5th, 2008, 12:25pm
Grinding of brakes an be caused by a build up of rust within the sliding surfaces of the caliper (especially if the car has been stood for a while) it can cause the pads to remain against the disk and would require a bit of cleaning up of the mating surfaces.... a brake service...?

hth
Pete
Title: Re: sunroof prob and grinding brakes???
Post by peteHull on Apr 5th, 2008, 12:39pm

on 04/05/08 at 08:34:37, harry.m1byt wrote:
Lift each corner of the car in turn and for each wheel try pulling bottom of wheel whilst pushing top, change to pulling top pushing bottom and swap over rapidly. See if you can find any movement at all. Try the same thing side to side of each wheel.

Now try rotating the wheel and feel for any sense of roughness in the wheels rotation. With the brake pads in place there will be some roughness, but the trick is to decide is it the pads rubbing or bearing roughness. For the rears it will need to be in nuetral and you will be turning the entire drive train.


In my experience...

This doesn't necessarily find bearing problems with the scorp, The bearings are pre-set and therefore are not adjustable.  noise can be caused by pitting in the race runs as was the case with mine, they will run for long enough with this problem and will just rumble... they will eventually disintegrate so will need replacing.
I would get replacements from fmd as I had bad experiences with third party ones.  you really need a hydraulic press to remove and fit the new ones although with a struggle it can be done usind suitable drifts and blocks hammers etc (hard work though). If you put the hubs in the freezer overnight and then warm the bearing runs in the oven allowing expantion and contraction, this helps, fit a new nut (the ones that come with the bearings are the wrong ones (Mondeo) so order new ones when ordering  the bearings)

In all it is a do-able job and will save money in the long run.... ;)

hth

Pete
Title: Re: sunroof prob and grinding brakes???
Post by tezzabuckle on Apr 6th, 2008, 9:29pm
Well, I managed to open sunroof and felt rust falling from it. I oiled it but it still dont work probably.
As for the brakes, could they be pistons?
Its not so much a grind but more of something hitting the bottom of my brake pedal. mainly when i turn left and brake at slow speed. It knocks more than a rotation of a turn of a wheel..say..3 or 4 knocks to a wheel rotation. Perhaps something to do with an abs bit.???I don't know how abs works but does it contain a piston?
The discs look clean and the pads are good. Feels like metal catching on something.
Please help........
Title: Re: sunroof prob and grinding brakes???
Post by tezzabuckle on Apr 14th, 2008, 11:10pm
Thanks for all the help so far, but can't quite get what the brake thing is.
I think its got to be something to do with clutch or something when i turn.. I feel vibrations under clutch when pulling away.
I think it's linked.
Something certainly pushes the brake pedal when braking slow. I think it cant be felt under clutch as well as brake when braking slow.
Title: Re: sunroof prob and grinding brakes???
Post by Tompion on Apr 15th, 2008, 2:00am
With regard the ABS does the ABS light come on when you turn on the ignition & go out after a few seconds?
To rule out the ABS being the cause of low speed judder remove one of the ABS fuses - if it still judders then it's not the ABS.


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