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        General >> Problems >> Front discs ?
        
(Message started by: mr._floppy on Apr 15^th, 2008, 12:23pm)

Title: Front discs ?
Post by mr._floppy on Apr 15^th, 2008, 12:23pm

I replaced warped front discs ( the originals I think ) at 74K, after only 14K I had to replace them due to warping , now after only 14 K the steering wheel shudder under braking is quite frightening.

Should I expect a bit more mileage than 14 K out of the cheaper discs, or are my braking habits suspect, or should I bite the bullet and buy Henry Ford's vastly overpriced discs ?

Title: Re: Front discs ?
Post by Scorpio_Mike on Apr 15^th, 2008, 12:36pm

14k does seem a bit low. What brand discs did you get ? Don't think there is any benefit in paying extra because a disc comes in a Ford box - do you really think Ford make brake discs ? I doubt it - made by another company and bought in IMHO. I got my discs from www.buypartsby.co.uk for about £10 each + VAT and 7k on they are still fine. They were a reputable brand and came boxed, sorry, can't recall the brand at the moment.

Title: Re: Front discs ?
Post by mr._floppy on Apr 15^th, 2008, 12:42pm

My last pair were about £30 off e-bay.

It's strange, they go from working perfectly to scrap metal in as little as 300 miles.

Anything else that could cause severe steering wheel shake on braking.?

The anti-roll bar bushes, the vertical drop links, and the track rod ends are all fairly elderly .

Title: Re: Front discs ?
Post by Kjetil S on Apr 15^th, 2008, 12:49pm

I have the same problem. Had severe brake shudder on partial braking (the shudder disappears when braking hard) and replaced the front discs for the MOT. That cured the shudder, but it slowly came back (after maybe a 1000km). The new discs were original ford parts.

I'm quite sure that it's warped front discs again, but I'm not sure what's causing it. I don't usually sit at junctions with the regular brakes on (as there is a theory that the warm pads can warp the discs) but rather brake to stop and then put the parking brake on.

Title: Re: Front discs ?
Post by Scorpio_Mike on Apr 15^th, 2008, 1:24pm

Mine's an auto so rarely use the parking / hand brake...

Title: Re: Front discs ?
Post by Daven on Apr 15^th, 2008, 1:42pm

Take it to a quiet motorway - get to 70 and then break hard (not hard enough to spin :-/) then leave off the breaks to let the disks cool down - repeat a few times and see if that makes a difference. Did on mine! :D

Dave

Title: Re: Front discs ?
Post by jonnycab on Apr 15^th, 2008, 2:11pm

I'm convinced that the problem is down to cheap inferior discs. I've had the problem twice before when using cheap 'Apec' discs, but since I've switched to using Lucas (not alot dearer) then I've not had any problems :)

Also, I have read that such phenomena can also be caused by pad material being transferred unevenly to the surface of the disc, causing a thickness variation :-/.... :)

Title: Re: Front discs ?
Post by amigafan2003 on Apr 15^th, 2008, 3:19pm

Worn bushes and track rod ends can warp discs - at least it did on my Sierra. Had to have my EBC discs skimmed twice to remove the "judder". Replaced all the front bushes with poly bushes - disks never warped again - they're fitted to the Westfield now.

Title: Re: Front discs ?
Post by mr._floppy on Apr 15^th, 2008, 5:52pm

I've given it a good brake thrashing with multiple emergency stops ( not one of the wheels locked up which proves the ABS is sound at least :-* ) from high speed.

The front discs were well heated up and didn't shudder at all .

We'll see if that's made any difference tomorrow when they've cooled down.

Title: Re: Front discs ?
Post by Scorpio_Mike on Apr 16^th, 2008, 12:07pm

Found the box in the garage this morning that my £10 discs from www.buypartsby.co.uk came in - they were Mintex brand.

I really should clear my garage up a bit more often... :-[

Title: Re: Front discs ?
Post by TiberiuS on Apr 16^th, 2008, 8:01pm

Hi guys. Mine were binding/warped badly when I bought it, had them all changed with genuine Ford discs/pads.

Never a problem even with spirited driving, did lots of 70mph motorway sliproad braking with no problems. And I used to keep the brake pressed in traffic :-/. I don't on the manual, always use the h/b and clutch. But on the auto...

Really a bad habit I should get out of, I know.

Title: Re: Front discs ?
Post by taliban aka Cheekyboy2 on Apr 17^th, 2008, 3:28am

i changed mine (they juddered because there was a chunk missing ;D) for a cheap unheard of make on ebay, they cost £32 which included both discs, both sets of pads and delivery! someone on here (cant remember who) said dont, they bought the same and they warped after a few months, but i tried them anyway, that was 18 months ago and they're still working a treat. i am a relaxed easy going driver though so i hardly ever dive on the brakes, that said mine is a td which is heavy on suspension etc. i think it depends on quite a few factors, manual or auto, mainly motorway or urban stop start or mixture, engine type, wheel size, driving style/habits etc etc.
it has been said you should get around 50,000 miles from the ford ones....

Title: Re: Front discs ?
Post by Octavian_P on Apr 17^th, 2008, 4:46pm

When i bought my first two Scorpios they both had the "steering wheel shudder"

3 and a half years ago i bought a pair of Delphi / Lockheed (about 60 pounds - front ones and about 80 pounds the rear ones). I did ~ 22 k miles with them and they are acting great, i didn't even changed the brake pads !

The dreaded steering wheel shudder appears because an effect called 'hotspot' which is highly spread and pretty nasty. This phenomenon appears because of the temperature difference through-out the disk. When you break all the kinetic energy of the almost 2 ton car which does xx miles/h is transformed into heat, a lot of heat. To avoid hot-spotting you breaks you need to brake a bit sooner and let the car creep the last meters. Also for automatics, try to stop a few meters before the stop light and creep the car with the brakes easily press (to creep real slow). Keeping the brake perssed makes a "heat sandwich" composed of the pads and disk. So the disk exposed to air cools faster than the one under the pads. Different temperature corresponds to different dilatations / tensions in the metal which led to deformations and faster warping

So to cut a long story short, as a rule you need to let go of the brakes before the stopping actions and for manuals never keep the brake pedal press (if you don't need it)

Title: Re: Front discs ?
Post by harry.m1byt on Apr 17^th, 2008, 11:32pm

on 04/15/08 at 17:52:48, mr._floppy wrote:

It was me that originally suggested that solution, after I found it in a techinal discussion on judder. I tried it, it cured mine and a few months later they are still free of judder.

BTW You are not supposed to get them so hot that they take overnight to cool down again, just hot is enough ;D

On the subject of pad and disk life...

I would expect my pads to last 40 to 50K miles and the disks to see this car out. I'm no slouch behind the wheel, but I make little use of the brakes - its a matter of planning ahead so you don't aquire more speed than you need or can use up. Everytime you need to brake it is wasting fuel.

Title: Re: Front discs ?
Post by mr._floppy on Apr 18^th, 2008, 1:47pm

WARNING ! CONSPIRACY ALERT!!!!

It's the New Car Syndrome, i.e. that the original parts fitted at the factory are infinitely superior to expensive aftermarket parts.

Can any tyre you've bought since match the 40K mileage that you got from the original tyres ?

How come the factory fitted discs can last 50K yet manufacturers replacements only last 30K ?

How come the original exhaust .....................you get the picture?

Title: Re: Front discs ?
Post by Daven on Apr 18^th, 2008, 2:42pm

That's how manufacturers can afford longer warranties I bet! >:( :-/

Title: Re: Front discs ?
Post by taliban aka Cheekyboy2 on Apr 18^th, 2008, 8:19pm

harry 20 years or so ago i would agree about disc life but it seems nowadays discs are more consumable.......

Title: Re: Front discs ?
Post by Scorpio_Mike on Apr 18^th, 2008, 8:49pm

Yes, I can recall nearly 30 years ago ( Ooops, showing my age now :-[ ) you could get discs re-ground - at least once, possibly twice if you were lucky - nowadays they are just a throwaway item, and in real terms probably a lot cheaper than they were back then !

Title: Re: Front discs ?
Post by SnowyScorpio on Feb 23^rd, 2009, 10:03pm

I noticed that there isnt any brakeshields on the front brakes on the scorp, what were they thinking?

I can se several groves in my discs from, im guessin, small stones and other crap that have stuck between the pad and the disc.

Is it possible to retrofitt brakeshields in front?

//Hairy Swede

Title: Re: Front discs ?
Post by Snoopy on Feb 24^th, 2009, 7:33am

If you put brake shields on then you may possibly get overheating on the discs. Ford in their wisdom did not think that they were necessary for a reason as they are fitted to the back ones.
See HERE (http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/images/frontbrakes.gif)

Title: Re: Front discs ?
Post by martin_rowe on Feb 24^th, 2009, 9:10am

modern brake pads do not contain asbestos, to get round this manefacturers add ceramic fibers to the friction material, thats the stuff that wears the disc, normal life seems to be 30 to 50 k dependant on type of use.

Title: Re: Front discs ?
Post by SnowyScorpio on Mar 23^rd, 2009, 9:25am

Jippie.... when the ice and snow vanished from the road and i got a bit more grip i noticed that the steering judders like hell when i brake.

Well well... Im gonna change pads when i put on the summertires anyway, to bad the front disk will set me back about 110£ disks and about another 100£ for the pads..

//Snowy