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        General >> Problems >> 2.3 mpg and ABS probs
        
(Message started by: gost on May 5^th, 2008, 4:31pm)

Title: 2.3 mpg and ABS probs
Post by gost on May 5^th, 2008, 4:31pm

Good afternoon Gents, mpg on 2.3 is now down to 16.5, mainly commute to work in traffic, did a check with obd lead yesterday, came up with on both short and long term fuel trim 100percent decrease rich correction, please tell me where to look to rectify. Abs light always on since i bought it last november, obd test shows B1500 non defined. Had a look under rear seat cushion found two connections both looked a bit iffy to me, a bit damp, is it ok to spray carb cleaner or wd 40 over connection?? last one sorry but i dont know how to test sensor with multimeter, thanks everyone

Title: Re: 2.3 mpg and ABS probs
Post by Octavian_P on May 5^th, 2008, 4:44pm

Hello, let's talk about each problem at a time

1) Fuel trims in general are affected by:
-temperature sensors (ECT, IAT), oxygen sensors (lambda)
You need to scan again with the lead and see if your sensors are switching.

2) ABS light always on

on 04/17/08 at 17:04:28, Octavian_P wrote:

When i bought my 2.3 it had the ABS light all the time. I have checked the sensor, they where OK, i have measured the plug on the ABS was ok, so the only problem that remained was the module. I have bought one from a break yard from Germany and mounted it on the car.....same result, light on. After some time Tompion a member here discovered that there's a dry joint in the module which needs re-soldering. Sooo...

1) have a read here first:
http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/abssystem.htm

2) If the first part doesn't help then read this:
http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/abscontrollerrepair.htm

PS: both my modules had the no 2 problem.

3) To use a multimeter and measure the sensor do the following:
- select resistance measuring (ohm) unplug the connector and measure the pins in the multiplug coming from the sensor. The ohm-meter should register about 1050 ohms.
alternative measuring:
- jack up the car select mili-volts on the meter, connect the meter to the sensor's plug and spin the wheel as fast as you can. It should read a small voltage. (this method depends a lot on the performance of the multimeter and it's sensibility, so it's not always relevant)

Title: Re: 2.3 mpg and ABS probs
Post by gost on May 5^th, 2008, 5:15pm

Thanks so much Octavian specially multimeter instructions,thats what i wanted, not sure what u mean by sensors are switching, sorry to be a dodo

Title: Re: 2.3 mpg and ABS probs
Post by v4-max aka Cheekyboy1 on May 5^th, 2008, 5:44pm

under no curcumstances spray your leads with carb cleaner it melts the plastic, i know this to my cost.

Title: Re: 2.3 mpg and ABS probs
Post by gost on May 5^th, 2008, 6:03pm

Thanks John, hope to see u at next kent meet

Title: Re: 2.3 mpg and ABS probs
Post by TiberiuS on May 5^th, 2008, 6:03pm

WD40 will be fine, better than that to unplug the connectors and give them a good dousing in WD40 or proper switch cleaner.

Agree with Octavian with the ABS, better to test both the resistance and for voltage output if you can. If the sensors seem ok then might be worth doing another resistance test at the main connector plug on the ABS module, the pinouts for that connector should be somewhere so you can test for continuity all the way through the loom.

These cars get a lot of stick for electrical problems but to be fair it's not all Ford's fault, they're getting old now and wires/connectors will age and get corroded, besides they get a right old beating with the UK weather :)

BTW, 'switching' of the lambdas is how they work with the ECU to control the fuel mixture, as they get old they gradually don't work quite as well as they used to (like Simmo ;D ;)), they can't react to the change in mixture fast enough so the balance goes bad either running the engine really lean or more commonly really rich. If it's both banks then a bad engine coolant sensor could be reading cold all the time so the ECU is basically keeping the choke on constantly.

Regards, Bruce.

Title: Re: 2.3 mpg and ABS probs
Post by gost on May 5^th, 2008, 6:26pm

Thanks Tiberius, that seems easiest first port of call, will change coolant sensor and see how it goes

Title: Re: 2.3 mpg and ABS probs
Post by Simmo on May 5^th, 2008, 6:31pm

'The Old One' can still read though !!! :D ;)

Title: Re: 2.3 mpg and ABS probs
Post by gost on May 5^th, 2008, 6:40pm

Simmo, i think u have been unseated, Im the new OLD ONE ;D

Title: Re: 2.3 mpg and ABS probs
Post by Simmo on May 5^th, 2008, 6:46pm

Let's see if you get as much cheek as I do then!!. They forget that Harewood is looming and 'sanctions' were issued last year. ;D :D

Title: Re: 2.3 mpg and ABS probs
Post by gost on May 5^th, 2008, 6:52pm

No way is this "old one" scorpio i mean ???will attempt to get to Harewood, probably get lost anyway

Title: Re: 2.3 mpg and ABS probs
Post by gost on May 6^th, 2008, 8:07pm

Checked all 4 sensors got reading of about 1100 so seem ok, did obd again tonight comes up wit C3551 nd C2550 nd B1571 nd, any ideas???

Title: Re: 2.3 mpg and ABS probs
Post by TiberiuS on May 6^th, 2008, 8:22pm

1100 ohms sounds good for the coils, was that checked from the main multiplug or each sensor? If there's a break or short somewhere in the loom, you wouldn't know unless you tested them from the plug at the ABS module.

Can't help with the fault codes, a look on Google might tell you something or one of the other guys should be along who knows what the codes are.

Is the ABS lamp on ALL the time with the ignition or just when you move off etc?

Don't remember ever seeing trouble codes listed on the site ???

Title: Re: 2.3 mpg and ABS probs
Post by gost on May 6^th, 2008, 8:34pm

Light is on all the time, never goes out, test weas done on each sensor sepertately, dont know how to test module, tried taking plug out and poking around but got no readings at all

Title: Re: 2.3 mpg and ABS probs
Post by TiberiuS on May 6^th, 2008, 8:43pm

ABS units varied a bit but if you can get to the plug ok and you can find the pinout somewhere it should be fairly easy to test the sensors from there, you really need to test it from there to know you've got an unbroken connection from module to sensor, if there's a break in the middle somewhere it would show then.

I'll have a scout around the site and see if I can find the pin info, not sure if it's on there. What year is the car? Any idea whether it's got the early or later model of ABS?

EDIT: If it's anything like mine you'll need thin probes in your multimeter to get to the connectors, otherwise a couple of 1" lengths of single core copper wire should do the trick.

Title: Re: 2.3 mpg and ABS probs
Post by gost on May 6^th, 2008, 9:17pm

Thanks for your patience |Tiberius, pump says 96gg on it car is dec 96 ultima 2.3, pleug comes off easy, tried poking probes in various holes but no response

Title: Re: 2.3 mpg and ABS probs
Post by scorpio_man on May 6^th, 2008, 9:34pm

hi there

the abs problem might be this.... http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/abscontrollerrepair.htm

hth

Title: Re: 2.3 mpg and ABS probs
Post by gost on May 6^th, 2008, 9:49pm

Thanks Scorpio man , i think that will be last resort when everything else fails

Title: Re: 2.3 mpg and ABS probs
Post by Tompion on May 7^th, 2008, 11:32am

on 05/06/08 at 20:07:36, gost wrote:

Checked all 4 sensors got reading of about 1100 so seem ok, did obd again tonight comes up wit C3551 nd C2550 nd B1571 nd, any ideas???

I think the only ABS codes I've seen begin with C1 (C1XXX)
What reader are you using? The Alex Peper one usually tells you what the code means. (Although presumably nd is non defined)
C0XXX & C3XXX should be generic
C1XXX & C2XXX should be manufacturer specific
The only B code I’ve seen was B1676 (BPVOOR – Battery pack voltage out of range) so assuming B stands for battery, possibly a bad connection giving a supply problem.
Have you cleared the codes? So you know you’re only looking at relevant codes?
It’s useful to know which ABS version you have as the advice is slightly different with regard to the tests.
Have you followed the page http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/abssystem.htm and cleaned the sensors/sensor rings etc?
If you click on the diagram at the top right of that page the pump shown is the MK 1V

Title: Re: 2.3 mpg and ABS probs
Post by TiberiuS on May 7^th, 2008, 12:45pm

Aren't B codes body codes or something? Just got something in the back of my mind like this, something about codes relating to immobiliser or PATS ???.

My first hunch would still be to test the circuits at the main plug, finding an open circuit to a sensor there could save you a lot of grief trying to find fault codes and things later on.

Title: Re: 2.3 mpg and ABS probs
Post by Tompion on May 7^th, 2008, 2:32pm

Yes B codes are body codes, I had written that initially but changed it after I looked at a bit of paper I had written some ABS codes on & found the B1676 code which I definitely retrieved from interrogating ABS system after I had the ABS light stay on, so it seems B codes can come from the ABS.

Thinking about it I suppose it is a body code, but since it affected the ABS the ABS stored it.

Title: Re: 2.3 mpg and ABS probs
Post by Tompion on May 7^th, 2008, 9:00pm

I’ve not come up with anything for those codes, except for a ref to B1571 (not ford specific) which is nothing to do with ABS (Door Ajar LR Circuit Failure) can’t find any ABS specific codes as high as yours.
http://www.scangauge.fr/DTC/

If you have the teves 20 unit have a look at the fifth post here:
http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=Advice;action=display;num=1174400199

It’s a test you can do on one of the pins in the repair link that scorpio_man posted.

Title: Re: 2.3 mpg and ABS probs
Post by gost on May 12^th, 2008, 7:18pm

Finally took the plunge today, cut a blooming great hole in bottom of abs pump, guess what? pins look fine!!!, surely ther must be a way of testing multiplug to see if any breaks from sensors to pump?? Its driving me crazy now

Title: Re: 2.3 mpg and ABS probs
Post by TiberiuS on May 12^th, 2008, 10:14pm

EDIT: Diagrams in Tompion's link below.

Regards, Bruce.

Title: Re: 2.3 mpg and ABS probs
Post by Tompion on May 12^th, 2008, 10:40pm

Did you scrape off the mastic as the pins look fine until you do? Did you check with a meter between the pins and the board, it wasn’t that obvious on my controllers that anything was wrong just a feint grey circle around the pin where the joint had been vibrating.
The Galaxy pin out would appear to be wrong as I’m sure the wires are 2 colour on the Scorpio. I’ll post it later.

Title: Re: 2.3 mpg and ABS probs
Post by TiberiuS on May 12^th, 2008, 10:43pm

on 05/12/08 at 22:40:53, Tompion wrote:

The Galaxy pin out would appear to be wrong as I’m sure the wires are 2 colour on the Scorpio. I’ll post it later.

The pinout or just the wire colour? I can't find the ABS wiring for the Scorp anywhere. I'm looking at the T.I.S I bought for the Mondeo but it's got *some* Scorpio data in there, under ABS it says early Galaxy and pre '97 Scorpio use the same part number of Teves module.

The codes are certainly for single colour wire in the Galaxy :-/

Regards, Bruce.

Title: Re: 2.3 mpg and ABS probs
Post by Tompion on May 12^th, 2008, 11:36pm

on 05/12/08 at 22:43:59, TiberiuS wrote:

To much to hope for – standardisation.

You can download the diagrams from Dave Neale’s site, the teves 20 diagram is page 18:
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/dave.neale/index.htm

LHS Front: WH (pin 18 ), BN (pin 17)

LHS Rear: WH/BU (pin 22), BN/BU (pin 21)

RHS Front: WH/RD (pin 4), BN/RD (pin 3)

RHS Rear: WH/GN (pin 6), BN/GN (pin 7)

Dave

Title: Re: 2.3 mpg and ABS probs
Post by TiberiuS on May 13^th, 2008, 12:12am

Cheers Dave, couldn't find the Scorp ABS diagrams anywhere :)

Title: Re: 2.3 mpg and ABS probs
Post by Tompion on May 13^th, 2008, 3:04am

Here's a drawing of the plug I started a while ago but never finished, I've just filled in the details, if you find it's wrong please let me know.

http://i.imgur.com/bqJG3Bs.jpg

Title: Re: 2.3 mpg and ABS probs
Post by gost on May 18^th, 2008, 1:53pm

Back to the mpg prob, after getting reading on both long and shortterm fuel trim of 100% decrease rich correcftion, i today changed the engin coolant sensor, now im getting 48,5 lean on both, HELP

Title: Re: 2.3 mpg and ABS probs
Post by TiberiuS on May 18^th, 2008, 3:57pm

Did you do a battery disconnect?

If something's been throwing the trims out, the ECU could do with resetting (disconnect battery for 30 mins and see how it is after). Otherwise just give it a run and see if they start to pull in the right direction.

Title: Re: 2.3 mpg and ABS probs
Post by gost on May 18^th, 2008, 4:22pm

Sorry to be so dim, but for battery disconect, do i just dissconect neg lead??

Title: Re: 2.3 mpg and ABS probs
Post by TiberiuS on May 18^th, 2008, 7:15pm

Yeah, disconnect the battery for about 30 mins to wipe the ECU memory. Make sure you know the radio Keycode first though.

Then take it for a 10-15 mile varied drive to relearn the mapping and see if it's improved afterwards.

You don't have to do this, if you have fixed the fault then it'd gradually pull the fuel trims back into line...but it's quicker this way.

Are you certain everything's connected up ok? What's the condition of the looms like in that area?

If you've still got the OBD rigged up, you could see what the engine coolant is coming out at, should be topping off at around 90-100°C this weather.

If it's not improved then I'd be looking torwards new lambda sensors if it was my car. There's more things which would make it run lean than there is to make it run rich.

Regards, Bruce.

Title: Re: 2.3 mpg and ABS probs
Post by gost on May 18^th, 2008, 7:19pm

Hi just did it , went for drive, admitedly dont usually do long trips, but actually got a reading of 30 mpg!! Obviously from tomorrow back to normal work and back, but hoping things have improved, thanks Tiberius

Title: Re: 2.3 mpg and ABS probs
Post by TiberiuS on May 18^th, 2008, 7:23pm

Hi. I just added a bit to my post before you replied, hope you've sorted it though :)

Regards, Bruce.