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        General >> Problems >> 4 spark plugs cross-threaded
        
(Message started by: davidwilkins on May 26^th, 2008, 11:44pm)

Title: 4 spark plugs cross-threaded
Post by davidwilkins on May 26^th, 2008, 11:44pm

Hi there

I wonder if anyone can help me as I am truly at a loss as to what to do next - I am not mechanically minded.

I had always wanted a Ford Granada - could never afford one (even secondhand) and then the Scorpio came out. As ugly as it is, you can't help loving the car.

Finally bought the 12V 3.0 Ultima and never looked back. One night, a bunch of muppets thought it would be funny running down the street keying all the cars. Mine was a write-off!!!

I had always wanted the Cosworth version and wow, what a difference! I had found true love!!!

Unfortunately the car had a cracked water pipe, so I took it to the garage. I was assured that I could have the car back that night as we needed it to go on holiday.

A few weeks later, they phoned to say that they had finally put the engine back together but could not get the car to start. They had to phone Ford to see where they had gone wrong!

After paying the £600.00 bill for the car, I found my little cossie in a terrible condition. They had split a couple of the air pipes; air con and power steering and damaged the alternator.

Jan 2007, I had owned the car nearly half a year and only driven it for six weeks!!

It went off to a recommended mechanic who fixed all but two faults (at the time it was thought that the power steering pump was on its way out - not the pipe). The car came back in June 2007.

I loved driving the car but was worried about the pump. I dropped it off to the same mechanic in Oct '07 and it is finally coming back this week (he has only spent five hours of labour on it in all that time!).

He found the power steering pump was fine; it was the pipe. He didn't know how to fix the cruise control (have read the posting about relay 10). The lights come on but it won't hold the speed.

The other issue was with the full service. He has only changed two of the plugs. The rear two plugs on both sides are cross-threaded and he didn't want to try and get them out in case it added another 2k to the bill. I believe he can turn them a little bit before they stick.

I truly love this car - despite it being a long distance relationship - and don't want to get rid of it.

Is there a light at the end of the tunnel?

I notice Ford have a special tool for broken spark plugs...

http://www.denlorstools.com/home/dt1/page_13119/rotunda_303_1203_broken_separated_spark_plug_remov.html

but that is for a completely different engine.

I have also seen mention of ?Easy Out? tools but am not sure of what they are.

My mechanic appreciates that he had the car way too long - hence not charging me any labour. With an actual time deadline, I know that with some guidance, he would do what he could to get them out instead of just trying to rack up a bill.

I want to arm him with as much information as possible and buy any tools that would help with the job.

Am I crazy to continue or should I let this beautiful car go to the breakers? I need the plugs to be 100% for a LPG conversion and lots of other plans too. I just don't want to waste my money on a car that could be beyond repair.

Thank you for any advice that you can offer.

Dave.

Title: Re: 4 spark plugs cross-threaded
Post by davidwilkins on May 26^th, 2008, 11:51pm

Forgot to mention that this is a 1996 (N) model.

Title: Re: 4 spark plugs cross-threaded
Post by TiberiuS on May 27^th, 2008, 12:24am

Getting some deja vu here (http://www.ronaldsummers.com/) ::)

Honestly mate, if all this is really true then you need a better mechanic ::)

Title: Re: 4 spark plugs cross-threaded
Post by martin_rowe on May 27^th, 2008, 1:01pm

what ever happens you need the plugs out, if they break you can get an 'easy out' to remove the broken part, worst case is cylinder heads need to be removed. if threads stripped in head, you can get a heli coil thread insert repair kit specially for spark plugs.

Title: Re: 4 spark plugs cross-threaded
Post by davidwilkins on May 27^th, 2008, 5:25pm

Hi martin_rowe

Thanks for your response. Unfortunately being non-mechanical, I don't have the aptitude to attempt it myself and no other garage really wants to touch it - keep quoting anywhere up to £2000.00 for the plugs to be changed.(!)

I will read up on the cyclinder heads and have a look as to what is involved - and then consider the possibility of attempting it myself.

Ford said that if the bits drop into the engine, I will ned a new engine.

Wish I studied mechanics instead of computers!!!

With thanks

Dave.

Title: Re: 4 spark plugs cross-threaded
Post by workshopboy on May 27^th, 2008, 9:17pm

Hi
Where are you by the way? :D
regards
Andy

Title: Re: 4 spark plugs cross-threaded
Post by davidwilkins on May 27^th, 2008, 9:27pm

Hi Andy

I am near Stansted.

Had quite a few garages who wouldn't entertain working on the car but spoke to Specialised Engines Ltd in Grays. They have been working on Ford engines for the last 40 years.

They obviously didn't want to fully commit themselves to a total price but they do have a few tools.

Discussed worse case scenario and that would probably be £800 which is a bit less scary.

Will start saving.

With many thanks

Dave.

Title: Re: 4 spark plugs cross-threaded
Post by gozz on May 27^th, 2008, 9:28pm

Dave.
Now is the time to add another string to your bow,study mechanics ! Get your car in a comfortable position and start stripping the top off it,no need to rush,if you come upon something baffling,it's all on here and there are many dyed in the wool 24 valve addicts to help you.Of course you've picked the most complex Scorp engine to work on,but they are not rocket science,and if you tread carefully taking a few notes for reassembly you'll surprise yourself.The heads should really come off if you repair the plug threads,but you can blast small pieces back out of the plug hole with compressed air and an extended blow gun that touches the piston,which must be on top dead centre on the firing stroke eg all valves in that cylinder closed so that no debris gets into the ports.Obviously dont dismantle the timing gear before doing it.
Never say die !
If you start to get fed up,have a cup of tea and return later.
Good luck GOZZ

Title: Re: 4 spark plugs cross-threaded
Post by martin_rowe on May 28^th, 2008, 8:49am

You should be able to remove broken spark plugs without dropping anything in the cylinders, also possable to do helicoil repair to thread, hardest bit is removing plugs. if heads need to be removed, it is not for the faint hearted, very complex even for those with knowledge of this engine.

Title: Re: 4 spark plugs cross-threaded
Post by jonnycab on May 28^th, 2008, 9:53am

Why is it so difficult for any garage to get the plugs out & why do they want to charge up to £2000 ? :-/

How did the plugs get cross threaded in the first place ?........Who ever fitted them must have had a hell of a job getting them in ???

Sorry if I'm being a little thick here or missing the point ::)

Title: Re: 4 spark plugs cross-threaded
Post by mr._floppy on May 28^th, 2008, 11:35am

It's easy to let your heart rule your head when it comes to your pride and joy, is it worth shelling out a £800 repair on a car that would struggle to achieve that selling price even if it was in pristine working condition ?

Mechanics aren't interested in fixing other mechanics balls-ups, because

(1) It's too labour intensive.

(2) It's beyond their skill level

(3) No guarantee of success

Sometimes it's wise just to admit defeat. :-/

Title: Re: 4 spark plugs cross-threaded
Post by TRACEYS_LIMO on May 28^th, 2008, 6:34pm

:D hi wot a bad time you have had what may help is there always, a person who will point you in the right direction, if you look up cylinder head repairers in your area and pop round and see them they should be able to recommend a good mechanic, who will be one of there customers to help you out.

Title: Re: 4 spark plugs cross-threaded
Post by davidwilkins on May 28^th, 2008, 8:17pm

Hi everyone

I have no idea who would have first put the plugs in - unfortunately. Garages wanted around £2000 because they deem it to be both labour intensive and a difficult job to carry out.

Spark plugs seem to be my thing. Whilst the scorpio was being repaired, I bought the Renault Laguna 3.0L V6 Monaco - not a patch on the cosworth.

The spark plugs needed replacing on that engine and it is a 17 hour job!!! The Renault service department couldn't believe it when they read it!!! If you want a laugh, phone Renault and ask them... it was a 2000 on a 'W'. They will say £1,017.00

Despite being a newish car, I simply scrapped it. (£2500 for 3 months driving. Should have got a bus pass)

Will be taking a mechanics class in September!!!

Actually drove my car today for the very first time in over 8 months. Steering wheel was very shaky and pulls to the left. Will need to get the tracking sorted.

It passed its MOT. Had an advisory on rear tyre and brake pipes are beginning to perish. Only charged £35 for the MOT.

So strange to drive it again. Poor little thing was a bit lumpy but just needs a good run.

God bless Ford for the Scorpio. :D

Title: Re: 4 spark plugs cross-threaded
Post by jonnycab on May 29^th, 2008, 2:16am

17 hours to change the spark plugs }{ }{ }{.....

....Please, no more, I can't take it }{ }{.......my sides are splitting }{ }{

Title: Re: 4 spark plugs cross-threaded
Post by Tons_of_fun on May 29^th, 2008, 6:37pm

Ah yes but dont forget the book time is based on FRENCH mechanics :o :o :o.Start @ 9 am...9.05 = coffee break ::) 9.15 =fag break, 3 hour luch breaks etc etc .You get picture ;) ;D ;D ;D

Title: Re: 4 spark plugs cross-threaded
Post by TiberiuS on May 29^th, 2008, 6:54pm

Bonjour tonnes.

Don't oublient que le cahier de travail français inclut également un mi voyage d'après-midi pour bloquer tous les ports pour se plaindre au sujet du prix en hausse des bougies et des écrous d'allumage..

Imbéciles d'avril?

Oui !

Sacre bleu! Le merde!! >:(

Regardes, Le Tiberierre ;)

Title: Re: 4 spark plugs cross-threaded
Post by mr._floppy on May 31^st, 2008, 4:34pm

Que ?

Title: Re: 4 spark plugs cross-threaded
Post by davidwilkins on May 31^st, 2008, 5:01pm

I am so angry/upset, I can't even shout or swear. I am ready to flip.

Car past MOT, but a bit lumpy. I have only done 25 miles and the <rude words> car has broken down. Eight months of that <*&^%$£"$%^&*> mechanic having my car!

I took my parnter out in it - along with our dog. The dog was acting up and so we decided to turn around. Stopped the car in the sainsbury car park round the corner; got the dog out of the car and then........ noticed a tidal wave of a reddish/mauve fluid rushing towards my feet!!!!!!!!!!!

The google god says that the colour matches the power steering fluid - which was one of the reasons why the mechanic was given the car. Anyone have a spare shotgun I could borrow?!

Can't type anything else at the moment... just taxed and MOT'd the bl%$£y thing as well. I truly hate cars!

Sincerely sorry for my ramblings...

A very upset Dave.

Title: Re: 4 spark plugs cross-threaded - FINAL UPDATE
Post by davidwilkins on May 31^st, 2008, 5:02pm

Once again, sorry for my ramblings. :-[

Title: Re: 4 spark plugs cross-threaded
Post by TiberiuS on May 31^st, 2008, 6:05pm

G'day Dave.

Check the connections to the flux capacitor. Sometimes they get a bit leaky with age.

Regards, Bruce.

Title: Re: 4 spark plugs cross-threaded
Post by jonnycab on Jun 1^st, 2008, 3:45am

If the flux capacitor was leaking, then wouldn't it affect the timing ? :-/....... :)

Title: Re: 4 spark plugs cross-threaded
Post by davidwilkins on Jun 3^rd, 2008, 10:17am

Unbelievable... finally managed to speak to my mechanic yesterday and he won't do anything. Advised me to top up all fluids to see where a leak could be coming from and can then call him to book it in!!!
Have alsdo noted that I couldn't switch from "economy" to "sport". Used to work until he changed the bulb for the gears.
Also, one of the rear door curtesy lights doesn't work... he worked on the other one.
Unfortunately a solicitor costs £180 per hour. It is going to be cheaper to get the breakers to collect the car and now use buses.
A very sad final chapter.

Title: Re: 4 spark plugs cross-threaded
Post by Scorpio_Mike on Jun 3^rd, 2008, 10:33am

Power steering fluid and auto box fluid are the same stuff so your fluid leak could be from the auto box - may explain why you can't switch between economy and sport modes due to low fluid ?

Title: Re: 4 spark plugs cross-threaded
Post by jonnycab on Jun 3^rd, 2008, 11:24am

Why don't you just report the mechanic to the Office of Fair Trading ? :)