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        General >> Problems >> Timing chain on a 2.3.
        
(Message started by: ChrisF on Jun 1^st, 2008, 7:43pm)

Title: Timing chain on a 2.3.
Post by ChrisF on Jun 1^st, 2008, 7:43pm

Is there anything on the timing chain (re-newing). I can find about the 2.0 and 2.9 but not the 2.3. I am pretty certain that the rattling on start up is down to the timing chain.

Title: Re: Timing chain on a 2.3.
Post by Tompion on Jun 1^st, 2008, 8:05pm

Have a look here:

http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/DOHC2-3manual.htm

Title: Re: Timing chain on a 2.3.
Post by ChrisF on Jun 1^st, 2008, 8:53pm

Thanks Tompion

Title: Re: Timing chain on a 2.3.
Post by ChrisF on Jun 1^st, 2008, 9:04pm

Good God . . . . I read somewhere that it was easy!

Title: Re: Timing chain on a 2.3.
Post by grandadman on Jun 2^nd, 2008, 5:46pm

on 06/01/08 at 19:43:18, ChrisF
wrote:

Is there anything on the timing chain (re-newing). I can find about the 2.0 and 2.9 but not the 2.3. I am pretty certain that the rattling on start up is down to the timing chain.

Wow that appears a bigger job than the 24V Cosworth

??? Can any knowledgeable member explain exactly what is the root cause of these rattles on the Ford Scorpio Ultimas ~ Seems to be a common problem to
me ???

I have it on my Cosworth during the colder weather.

Title: Re: Timing chain on a 2.3.
Post by Matt on Jun 2^nd, 2008, 6:57pm

on the 24v's its the timing chain tensioners, they lose oil pressure over night and 'slacken' off the chain

could be the same prob with the 2.3, although its chain tensioner is non refurbable,

Title: Re: Timing chain on a 2.3.
Post by keitho on Jun 3^rd, 2008, 9:11am

The 2.3 engine is similar to the 2.0 only it has an extra "gearbox" that contains the balancer shafts. These restore the secondary engine imbalance that is inherent in a four cylinder engine. The upshot of this is that there is an extra timing chain to drive these shafts and of course it has to be timed correctly. The camshaft timing chain is tensioned with a preloaded piston that has to be released after it has been fitted......you only get one shot at this and if it is released by accident (eg dropping on floor) then you have to get a new one. There are a few things that can cause the rattle..... chain, guides or piston tensioner... you need to get the front cover off the chains and have a look really. If the chain breaks then you are into serious repairs which may not be worthwhile.

Title: Re: Timing chain on a 2.3.
Post by Scorpio_Mike on Jun 3^rd, 2008, 12:14pm

In case you have not yet got your timing chain kit - these guys might be worth contacting :

www.enginestuff.co.uk

£83.19 for a 2.3 16v timing chain kit sounds quite reasonable to me.

Title: Re: Timing chain on a 2.3.
Post by ChrisF on Jun 19^th, 2008, 11:52pm

Sounds good, but does it come complete, you know with the required tensioner etc. There was someone who had already changed a timing belt on here and wrote all about it but I cant find it. Anybody can help?

Title: Re: Timing chain on a 2.3.
Post by Jonnycab on Jun 20^th, 2008, 2:40am

As Matt says, it's probably down to losing oil pressure over night......but once the oil has been bought back up from the sump & lubricated the timing chain & tensioner then the noise dissapears.

It may not be a real cause for concern as long as the rattling only last a few seconds, but a possible cause for the tensioner stiffening up may be down to how the engine is (or has been) serviced.

When changing the oil, most mechanics etc just drain the old stuff out & replace it. Unfortunately there are still alot of deposits & sludge left in the engine & the only way to get them out is to use a good engine flush (Wynns etc) to remove all the harmful gunk that clogs up the engine.
If these deposits aren't removed then it will eventually build up to a point where oilways will get clogged & moving parts (ie..tensioners) will start to stiffen up because of contamination.

Check the oil just before the next oil change....if it's black, then the engine has alot of deposits & sludge, & needs flushing.

Flushing the engine at every oil change does have a dramatic effect on the longevity of an engine & all the moving parts inside it ;)

Title: Re: Timing chain on a 2.3.
Post by gozz on Jun 20^th, 2008, 9:13am

Come along JC,the only reason for a fouled engine is neglecting regular oil changes,modern oil is such that the engine is kept like a man on Andrews Liver Salts ! When I get used funeral vehicles it is not difficult to see those which have been abused,because the oil is dirty again within a few miles,in this case flushing is necessary.
GOZZ

Title: Re: Timing chain on a 2.3.
Post by Snoopy on Jun 20^th, 2008, 9:45am

The use of diesel oil for a short period is as good as any flushing oil and in many case cheaper and does a better job IMHO . Modern diesel oils are high detergent and clean every thing out and hold it in suspension .

Title: Re: Timing chain on a 2.3.
Post by Jonnycab on Jun 20^th, 2008, 1:02pm

I suppose if you change the oil at intervals of less than the recommended 10K miles, then there would probably be minimal fouling, but I personally do it at 10K miles (about every 4 1/2 months) & I use an engine flush & let the oil drip for about an hour, so as to get as much out as possible :)

Just draining the oil & re-filling with fresh means there will always be some oil in the engine left over from the last 10K miles, so the new oil will contaminate quicker.

On the 2.3 engine the handbook states that the engine (with filter) takes 4.25 litres of oil, although this is probably closer to 4.5 litres. But when I do an oil change by flushing the oil & letting it drip for an hour, my engine will take just over 5 litres until it reaches almost to the top of the dipstick.

So does that mean that Ford's figures are based on the fact that there will always be half a litre of old oil left clinging to the inside of the engine ?....& does using an engine flush mean that it is possible to remove this extra half litre so that you really are re-filling the whole engine with brand new, fresh oil ? ;)...... :)

Title: Re: Timing chain on a 2.3.
Post by ChrisF on Jun 20^th, 2008, 7:02pm

Does anybody know if anybody has written of their experiences of doing the above chain on a 2.3, I've found one about a 2.0 but not a 2.3.

The clicking has suddenly got worse (about 50mls) to the extent that its so loud that people up the road turn around, any ideas!

Title: Re: Timing chain on a 2.3.
Post by gozz on Jun 21^st, 2008, 12:37am

ChrisF
Clicking does'nt sound very'chainy'.If it is,and people in the street can hear it,danger point must be nigh !
Are you sure it's not something in the belt run,tensioner for instance.or aircon clutch,have you tried it with the belt off ?
GOZZ

Title: Re: Timing chain on a 2.3.
Post by scorpio_man on Jun 21^st, 2008, 10:34am

hi there

are you sure it's not the cat that's rattling? that can make quite a loud sound as well.

that's where my money would be on a 2.3.

hth

Title: Re: Timing chain on a 2.3.
Post by ChrisF on Jun 21^st, 2008, 12:31pm

I dont think it is the cat as it definatley is rythmic with the engine revs. But the belt it could be, is there anything on the belt that could give the metalic sound, it isnt the compressor, thats the next thing to do, it doesnt cut in.

Title: Re: Timing chain on a 2.3.
Post by ChrisF on Jun 21^st, 2008, 6:48pm

The latest news is:-

It wasnt anything on the belt, took it of and the noise was still there.

But I stripped it down with the intention of checking the chain and low and behold the camshaft cap nearest to the chain was almost off, the nuts were so loose that they were nerely off. Is it possible that this was the cause of the noise. Help!

Title: Re: Timing chain on a 2.3.
Post by Jonnycab on Jun 21^st, 2008, 7:12pm

Are the spark plugs in tight ?........a mate of mine had a terrible clattering on his 2.3 that went up & down with revs.........turns out it was down to a loose spark plug :)

Title: Re: Timing chain on a 2.3.
Post by Tompion on Jun 21^st, 2008, 10:12pm

Do you mean the caps shown here 3rd picture down page 4:
http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/manual/engines/dohc2_3/2300Camshafts.pdf

If you do mean them then yes I would expect a noise and possibly damage to the caps/camshaft – I would imagine it would also cause low oil pressure. The right thing to do is strip down and carefully inspect, but I must admit these days I’d probably just tighten them and see what happens.

Title: Re: Timing chain on a 2.3.
Post by ChrisF on Jun 21^st, 2008, 10:22pm

Yes thats it, its only one cap, the second one from the front.

Title: Re: Timing chain on a 2.3.
Post by Tompion on Jun 21^st, 2008, 11:12pm

What I would expect to happen is that the camshaft would flex slightly as it lifted the valve and then snap back to the bearing in the head as it closes (you have the chain trying to pull it down & the valve spring trying to push it up), so there would be extra stress on the second bearing cap & possible damage to the first bearing. Only talking a small movement here but it doesn’t take much to make a lot of noise, plus assuming the bearings have oil feeds the possible drop in oil pressure could cause noise from the chain tensioner.

Having said that it looks a pretty well braced set up, I think I would just lift off the first cap and check it’s not scored, if it looks OK put it back the same way round, check all the caps are tight and see what happens.

Just noticed you said second from the front this time, but I’d expect much the same - but more flexing.

Title: Re: Timing chain on a 2.3.
Post by ChrisF on Jun 21^st, 2008, 11:24pm

Yes I didn't notice the cap behind the sprocket.