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        General >> Problems >> Banging from the engine on a 2.3 - WITH SOUND
        
(Message started by: ChrisF on Jun 23rd, 2008, 5:45pm)
Title: Banging from the engine on a 2.3 - WITH SOUND
Post by ChrisF on Jun 23rd, 2008, 5:45pm
Wow this just goes on and on.  I dont think that it is the timing chain.  The symptons are the clattering is in sync with the revs, it appears to be one per rev, it only ocurs when the engine is running it doesnt occur when the engine is turned over on the starter motor with no plugs in.  The camshaft seems ok now that the no 2r has been tightened down.  The plug were all tight until they were removed.
It went from nothing except the tic it has always had (which I pesumed was the timing chain, now appears to have gone, I think it was the camshaft cap) to a full blown CLACK CLACK CLACK over about 50 mls, gradualy getting louder and louder.  But it doesnt appear to be comming from the front of the engine but I could be wrong.  It doesnt seem to effect the tickover or the running at all, starts first time.  I dont think it is the cat, its to rhythmic for that increases exactly with the revs.
Title: Re: Banging from the engine on a 2.3
Post by Scorpio_Mike on Jun 24th, 2008, 6:15pm
First thing I would do is to get a compression test done to rule out holed pistons / head gasket / burnt valves and see if that turns up anything amiss.
Title: Re: Banging from the engine on a 2.3
Post by gozz on Jun 24th, 2008, 10:47pm
Inoperative hydraulic tappet ?
Title: Re: Banging from the engine on a 2.3
Post by martin_rowe on Jun 25th, 2008, 8:50am
Cracked exhaust manifold / blown gasket.
Title: Re: Banging from the engine on a 2.3
Post by ChrisF on Jun 25th, 2008, 12:16pm
how do you find an inoperative tappet and whats the cure gozz
Title: Re: Banging from the engine on a 2.3
Post by Highlander on Jun 25th, 2008, 3:25pm
Yep I'd check the exhaust manifold, especially at the rear between number three and four cylinder. favourite spot for it..

Might be easier to spot when its warmed up.
Title: Re: Banging from the engine on a 2.3
Post by ChrisF on Jun 25th, 2008, 4:49pm
Thanks y'all I will check tomorrow, would the exhaust manifold give that sound and that loud.  It doesn't make any difference how warm it is.
Title: Re: Banging from the engine on a 2.3
Post by gozz on Jun 25th, 2008, 10:42pm
Chris.
To check for duff hydraulic tappets you need to get the top off,and get each cylinder in turn on top dead centre on the firing stroke eg all valves closed,then see if any clearance exists between cam and tappets,there should be no clearance,any required adjustment is automatically done by the oil in the tappet piston.
                              GOZZ
Title: Re: Banging from the engine on a 2.3
Post by Highlander on Jun 25th, 2008, 10:57pm

on 06/25/08 at 16:49:47, ChrisF wrote:
It doesn't make any difference how warm it is.


It does when you're looking for a crack ;)
Title: Re: Banging from the engine on a 2.3
Post by ChrisF on Jun 26th, 2008, 3:27pm
I've checked the tappets, as I've done each pair in turn on TDC there is no gap so I'll assume they are ok.  Next is the exhaust its taking quite a time to get it of as the bottom bolts are a bit awkward to get off, spanner rash all over my hands.  I'll let you know how I get on.
Title: Re: Banging from the engine on a 2.3
Post by ChrisF on Jul 2nd, 2008, 5:51pm
Nope it wast'nt the exhaust gasket new one fitted all tighetened up still the same loud CLACK CLACK, it came on over about 50 miles gradualy, starting very quietly, just perceptible ending up very loud indeed, makes people up the road turn round.  I cant keep changing things I'm running out of money, anybody got any ideas.
Title: Re: Banging from the engine on a 2.3
Post by Highlander on Jul 2nd, 2008, 9:02pm

on 06/23/08 at 17:45:49, ChrisF wrote:
The camshaft seems ok now that the no 2r has been tightened down.


What did you tighten down?
Title: Re: Banging from the engine on a 2.3
Post by Jasper on Jul 2nd, 2008, 9:19pm
Hello Chris
You most probably have checked this already,but i had a Merc 300Te and it was making a clack clack clack noise which sounded like a tappet.
All it was was a crack in the aux drive belt(multi v type).
Richard
Title: Re: Banging from the engine on a 2.3
Post by ChrisF on Jul 2nd, 2008, 10:50pm
It was all the bolts on the ex manifold Highlander
Title: Re: Banging from the engine on a 2.3 = WITH SOUND
Post by ChrisF on Jul 2nd, 2008, 10:52pm
No Jasper that was the first thing I checked sorry mate.
Title: Re: Banging from the engine on a 2.3
Post by Tompion on Jul 4th, 2008, 2:30am

on 06/23/08 at 17:45:49, ChrisF wrote:
The camshaft seems ok now that the no 2r has been tightened down.


on 07/02/08 at 21:02:13, Highlander wrote:
What did you tighten down?

Highlander not sure what no 2r stands for but I think Chris was referring to the bearing cap in this thread:
http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=Problems;action=display;num=1212345798;start=15
Title: Re: Banging from the engine on a 2.3
Post by Jonnycab on Jul 4th, 2008, 3:12am
If the clacking is coming on gradually & getting louder as the engine gets hotter, then could it be a lubrication problem in the cylinder head ?.....oil pump problem or clogged oilways ?  :-/

I still reckon you should flush the engine & refill it with fresh oil to see if there is any change  :)

Just a thought  ;)
Title: Re: Banging from the engine on a 2.3
Post by ChrisF on Jul 5th, 2008, 6:06pm
Any clever b****r know how to get a Sound Clip on here I've recorded it. It is loud.
Title: Re: Banging from the engine on a 2.3
Post by scorpio_man on Jul 5th, 2008, 6:22pm

on 07/05/08 at 18:06:39, ChrisF wrote:
Any clever b****r know how to get a Sound Clip on here I've recorded it. It is loud.


hi there

host it on photobucket, etc as a video clip, them post the link.

hth
Title: Re: Banging from the engine on a 2.3
Post by ChrisF on Jul 5th, 2008, 6:27pm
Sorry lost me when you mentioned computer. I am not computer literate, what is photobucket then who do I post what link to.
Title: Re: Banging from the engine on a 2.3
Post by scorpio_man on Jul 5th, 2008, 6:39pm
hi there

email me the clip and i'll put it up for you.

hth
Title: Re: Banging from the engine on a 2.3
Post by scorpio_man on Jul 5th, 2008, 9:17pm
hi there

i had to put the sound clip on the msn site.

not sure if everyone can download without being a member. :-/

http://groups.msn.com/fordscorpio-co-uk/documents.msnw

hth
Title: Re: Banging from the engine on a 2.3
Post by ChrisF on Jul 5th, 2008, 9:29pm
As Scorpio Man said hes not sure whether everybody can get it. If you cant and want to hear it email me.
Title: Re: Banging from the engine on a 2.3 - WITH SOUND
Post by Snoopy on Jul 6th, 2008, 9:58am
Sounds like a big/little end to me .  
Title: Re: Banging from the engine on a 2.3 - WITH SOUND
Post by ChrisF on Jul 7th, 2008, 2:02am
If it is big/little end it the end of the car Im afraid. Nobody wants these big cars except for us and even we dont want to change engines in one.
Title: Re: Banging from the engine on a 2.3 - WITH SOUND
Post by Jonnycab on Jul 7th, 2008, 2:34am
I haven't heard the noise yet (not a member of the MSN site) but surely if the big/little end had gone then the noise would be noticably coming from the block & not the head  :-/
Title: Re: Banging from the engine on a 2.3 - WITH SOUND
Post by Snoopy on Jul 7th, 2008, 8:20am
You ca get the file from HERE (http://cid-eb36f845ea9b8fb6.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/SCORPIO%20STUFF/Sound|120clip|12004.wav) if you want to listen.
Title: Re: Banging from the engine on a 2.3 - WITH SOUND
Post by Tompion on Jul 7th, 2008, 8:46am
I agree, sounds rather like a big end, the loose camshaft bearing cap could have caused a drop in oil pressure.
I suppose you could drop the sump to confirm.
Title: Re: Banging from the engine on a 2.3 - WITH SOUND
Post by ChrisF on Jul 7th, 2008, 4:35pm
Yes I agree with JonnyC it dosent sound like big or small end it dosent come from the block, also in my vast years I have heard many ends gone and they have a much lower note, the sound is definiately coming further up the engine.

Or am I clutching at straws, surely it is not the end of a beautiful car.
Title: Re: Banging from the engine on a 2.3 - WITH SOUND
Post by Scorpio_Mike on Jul 7th, 2008, 10:13pm
Have you had a compression test done ?

Not convinced it is bottom end noise - normally deeper tone.

Sounds to me like a broken valve spring  ???
Or maybe a faulty hydraulic tappet  ???


I could be wrong but...
Title: Re: Banging from the engine on a 2.3 - WITH SOUND
Post by Snoopy on Jul 8th, 2008, 7:01am
One thing you ca do to narrow down the noise source is to remove the drive belt(s) so that ONLY the engine is running and NO ancillaries . If it is still there then it has to be engine noise. Very difficult to diagnose from just sound . Could even be the oil pump.
If its not Big end/Little end or ancillaries then CAMSHAFT has to be suspect seeing as that was loose at the start of things .  
Title: Re: Banging from the engine on a 2.3 - WITH SOUND
Post by ChrisF on Jul 8th, 2008, 12:12pm
Would any of these occur over 50mls starting with a just barely perceptible tic tic and ending with the noise you hear, a very loud CLACK CLACK.  I have by the way removed the long rubber belt to no avail.
Title: Re: Banging from the engine on a 2.3 - WITH SOUND
Post by Scorpio_Mike on Jul 8th, 2008, 4:40pm
Can you run the engine with the cam covers off ?

What was the result of the compression test ?

Have you drained the oil and checked for any bits of metal ?

Listened to the sound clip a few times and it does to me sound as though it is valvegear related.
Title: Re: Banging from the engine on a 2.3 - WITH SOUND
Post by ChrisF on Jul 10th, 2008, 1:56am
I would but there is no earthing for the coils.  All four readings were in reasonable tolerance, so I assume they were ok.  Not drained the oil yet.  Iv'e got a friend who is a mechanic at Invicta's a FMD, been on hols about a year, good wages I presume, still its a job somebody has to do it.  Anyway he has listend to it on the internet and he agrees with you its pos a valve gear prob.  He said it would be about 16 x £12, a lot of money.  How do  identify the offending tappet, and how do I repair it.
Title: Re: Banging from the engine on a 2.3 - WITH SOUND
Post by Scorpio_Mike on Jul 10th, 2008, 9:52am
Don't think you would need to replace all 16 !
Prime suspect(s) has to be the one(s) nearest the R2 bearing cap as this was the one you had to tighten.
May be worth investigating turning the engine over on the starter with the cam cover removed to see if there is anything obvious - maybe someone on the site can advise if this is OK and won't damage the electronics ?
Hope you get it sorted soon.
Title: Re: Banging from the engine on a 2.3 - WITH SOUND
Post by ChrisF on Jul 19th, 2008, 1:42pm
I'm going to have another go at it next week, work stopped me doing it this week, but I could do with some advice as to how you identify the offending tappet, also what actuately breaks in the tappet. Somebody said that pouring oil over them in turn with the engine running would identify the offending tappet, but running it with the cover off with no means of earthing the coils has got me stumped.
Title: Re: Banging from the engine on a 2.3 - WITH SOUND
Post by scorpio_man on Jul 19th, 2008, 2:47pm
hi there

this mght sound stupid but...

are you really earthing them? are they not just bolted down? i say this because you have a + and - at the wiring end of the coils.

hth
Title: Re: Banging from the engine on a 2.3 - WITH SOUND
Post by ChrisF on Jul 29th, 2008, 12:01am
I might be wrong but the bolt that goes through the coil has a rather large eath connection to it.
Title: Re: Banging from the engine on a 2.3 - WITH SOUND
Post by ChrisF on Oct 20th, 2008, 6:48pm
I'm possitive it is something on the head, so if they are not that expensive to buy second hand that might be the route to go. Anybody got any ideas or perhaps a head.
Title: Re: Banging from the engine on a 2.3 - WITH SOUND
Post by mindofitsown on Oct 22nd, 2008, 12:23pm
Chris, I have listen to the sound clip and note the the following:
Assuming that during the first 5 seconds of the clip, the engine was at idle speed (for simplicity lets say 720rpm) this equates to 12 crankshaft revolutions per second. The repetition frequency of the tapping noise appears to be about half that (6 per second) which would suggest that the source of noise is in the head since the camshaft (and related components) run at half crank speed. hth
Title: Re: Banging from the engine on a 2.3 - WITH SOUND
Post by RICHY on Oct 25th, 2008, 8:45pm
dunno if this is relavent or not but have you checked the oil pressure? only reason i ask is that i have just stripped a 2.3 to use the block in my mk5 rs2000 escort, the oil pump on that had a loose pressure relief valve(it seems a pretty common thing on this engine)
Title: Re: Banging from the engine on a 2.3 - WITH SOUND
Post by ChrisF on Oct 26th, 2008, 8:39pm
Dear mindofitsown

cheers youve given me a clue watch this space

Chris
Title: Re: Banging from the engine on a 2.3 - WITH SOUND
Post by Tompion on Oct 26th, 2008, 9:21pm
Chris

Sent you a pm about a possible contact for a 2.3 head.

Dave
Title: Re: Banging from the engine on a 2.3 - WITH SOUND
Post by ChrisF on Nov 8th, 2008, 9:57pm
I have a PM sent to me . . . . where is it?
Title: Re: Banging from the engine on a 2.3 - WITH SOUND
Post by Tompion on Nov 8th, 2008, 10:11pm

on 11/08/08 at 21:57:16, ChrisF wrote:
I have a PM sent to me . . . . where is it?


Sent it 2 minutes before I notified you above.
It was someone on Ebay that mentioned they had a cylinder head in an auction for a manifold, but I don't think they put the head up for auction.

I'll PM again in a couple of minutes.


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