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        General >> Problems >> Traction Control
        
(Message started by: BLAKE on Oct 10^th, 2008, 9:32pm)

Title: Traction Control
Post by BLAKE on Oct 10^th, 2008, 9:32pm

Hello to You All.
I have a 1998 3Lt Cosworth Estate auto. I had an operation that stopped me using the car for 3-weeks. The car was perfect when last used, then first time out the engine would not ref over1500rpm. I had to call out the A.A. and the engineer diagnosed it was the cruise control locking the throttle at the 1500rpm. He then removed the half moon gear from the cruise control, which then totally disengaged it, that was fine, it allowed me to get home.
Now I have not only a faulty cruise control, but I now don't know what the correct position is for the removed half moon shape gear to put the unit back. The A.A. man has no idea, or the Ford agents, or Ford £1 a minute technical office.
First cry for help, has anybody seen inside the cruise control unit complete with stepper motor. (This unit is on the near side, almost under the large air filter unit, and mounted on a bracket fixed to the inside of the radiator bulkhead. The cable from the throttle peddle goes to it, and from it a cable goes to the throttle actuator on the manifold.
Second cry for help, has anybody any thoughts on the reason the cruise control is faulty?

Title: Re: Cruise Control
Post by Simmo on Oct 10^th, 2008, 9:36pm

The details re the cruise control are HERE (http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/ccmanl.htm). Have a read and see if that helps.

Title: Re: Cruise Control
Post by BLAKE on Oct 10^th, 2008, 10:07pm

Hello Simmo.
Yes I have checked this section of the workshop manual, but it dos'nt give any reference to the speed controller with its stepper motor, nor did Fords. It shows a different unit to mine. The serial Number on my unit is-93BB9U558 AH.

Title: Re: Cruise Control
Post by scorpio_man on Oct 10^th, 2008, 10:15pm

hi there

when i got my car, the cruise control module was seized. i took it apart, but couldn't get it freed up.

easiest option was to replace it. they're all the same from each engine. only the connecting cable is different.

hth

http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/manual/speedcontrl/ccactuator.pdf

Title: Re: Cruise Control
Post by scorpio_man on Oct 12^th, 2008, 5:10pm

hi there

email replied to... :)

Title: Re: Cruise Control
Post by harry.m1byt on Oct 13^th, 2008, 7:06pm

It does not quite make sense to me. As I understand it, the cruise control only pulls via its bowden cable on the throttle. It cannot prevent you increasing the throttle, it only holds the throttle open at what ever setting is needed to maintain the set speed. If its set to cruise at 60mph, press the throttle and the speed will increase.

Title: Re: Cruise Control
Post by scorpio_man on Oct 13^th, 2008, 7:11pm

hi there

well spotted harry! ;D

i had a re-read yesterday and sent an email to blake stating i think it's the traction control unit that's playing up, not the cruise control.

regards

Title: Re: Cruise Control
Post by BLAKE on Oct 13^th, 2008, 10:44pm

Hello harry and scorpio_man.
1. The cruise control can and will hold, or increase/decrease speed via the steering wheel switches. The bowden cable action you refer to I agree, but the cruise when on, via its steering wheel switches, controls the throttle speed up or down and holds it at any given selected point via a stepper motor and clutch unit. I know you can still use the throttle to increase speed through the cruise set point, while cruise is on (the very item I need urgent help with the position of the half moon gear wheel driven of the stepper motor)
The bowden cable is in two parts, one from throttle peddle, one from throttle actuator on engine, and both terminate at the speed control actuator pulley on top of the stepper motor geartrain.The geartrain converts low torque stepper motor output to high torque at the output spool of the actuator. I'm sorry we seem to have got away from the problem. I can't find a replacement for the cruise unit at the moment, but if I knew the position of the half moon gear I would then be able to put the unit back on the car, and then try and find the fault in the system.
P.S. The cruise control unit is on the near side.
Regards.
BLAKE.

Title: Re: Cruise Control
Post by scorpio_man on Oct 14^th, 2008, 9:43am

hi there

let's start at the beginning.

is your car a left hand drive?

if it's right hand drive (uk spec), then as i said in my email, the unit on the n/s under air filter/near the PASSENGER SIDE headlight is the TRACTION control unit, not the cruise control. this WOULD stop you opening the throttle if jammed.

this is for the TRACTION CONTROL unit... http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/manual/fuel/general/AccCableTCRem.pdf

please confirm it is the traction control that's faulty; a photo would be helpful.

hth

Title: Re: Cruise Control /Traction Control
Post by BLAKE on Oct 14^th, 2008, 2:22pm

Hello scorpio_man.
1. The car is right hand drive.
2. The web page you sent me shows the item I have been pathetically trying to explain, my excuse is I was led astray by the A.A. engineer and the Ford agents (who checked my unit number, and confirmed it was the cruise control).
This in no way excuses my ignorance in challenging your knowledge, for that, I am truly sorry. (I'm glad you can't see my red face).
I thought I had a reasonable working experience of the model? but I must admit I was'nt aware the traction control linked directly in to the throttle cables.
Now we have established the unit, are you able to explain why the unit locked the throttle speed to a max of 1,500 rpm. and what position the half moon gear meshes with the motor gear, (remember this item was removed by the A.A. man.
Hope you will stay with me on this.
Regards.
BLAKE.

Title: Re: Cruise Control
Post by Simmo on Oct 14^th, 2008, 2:55pm

Don't despair !! ;D. You won't be the first to be confused by a Scorpio and certainly not the last !. These boys love a challenge :D ;D.

Title: Re: Cruise Control
Post by scorpio_man on Oct 14^th, 2008, 5:55pm

hi there

least we know what unit it is now! ;D

unfortunately i've never seen one in the 'flesh'. my car doesn't have it, thankfully (i have a right foot for that! just my opinion, mind).

are you able to drive it now with it disabled, 'till we can find someone who knows more about it?

regards

Title: Re: Traction Control
Post by BLAKE on Oct 14^th, 2008, 7:42pm

Hello scorpio_man.
I have the unit off the car at the moment, I will leave it like that for the moment, I am recovering from hospital, and now have this flue type bug, so I don't want to be going out unless its realy urgent.
Is there an item on the Ford site that explains the operation of the traction control system?
Regards.
BLAKE.

Title: Re: Traction Control
Post by scorpio_man on Oct 14^th, 2008, 8:29pm

hi there

i'll have a look. there used to be an article on how it worked, but it seems to gone now. :(

there's nothing on how it works internally, though, iirc.

i'll check the ford data.

hth

Title: Re: Traction Control
Post by scorpio_man on Oct 14^th, 2008, 9:22pm

hi there

email sent, but not very helpful. :(
i'd say you need to replace the t/c unit.

hth

Title: Re: Traction Control
Post by BLAKE on Oct 15^th, 2008, 2:25pm

Hello scorpio_man.
I appreciate your efforts,please keep me in mind?

I have been told that the later Mondeo higher spec models have cruise and traction controls that are the same as the Scorpio. Is this a fact?

Regards.
BLAKE.

Title: Re: Traction Control
Post by scorpio_man on Oct 15^th, 2008, 3:38pm

hi there

don't know. :-/

i know the 2.3 galaxy cruise control is completely different, so i'm not sure if any other model will use any of the same system as the scorpio.

hth

Title: Re: Traction Control
Post by BLAKE on Oct 21^st, 2008, 8:51pm

Hello scorpio_man.
I have cleaned and greased/oiled the gears of the traction control unit, selected the mid point of the half moon gear to mesh in the small gear of the stepper motor, re-installed all items,( I also took the opportunity to clean the MAF sensor while I had the air filter/ducting off). Road testing the car, everything I can test works, but I can't test the traction control on the road, the lights on the dash show when system switched off, and also when the ignition is first switched on.
I realise the fault has'nt been found yet,

I would appreciate your thoughts at this stage, and any help.

Kind Regards.
BLAKE.

Title: Re: Traction Control
Post by scorpio_man on Oct 22^nd, 2008, 12:36pm

hi there

to test the system, take the car on to some wet grass or gravel and try it out.

don't go too nuts as you could get stuck.

it should cut the throttle by pushing the pedal by at you and putting the rear brakes on a bit.

hth

Title: Re: Traction Control
Post by BLAKE on Oct 22^nd, 2008, 1:49pm

Hello scorpio_man.
Thanks for your advice, I will give it a try, look out for headlines in the media about a high flying grass covered Scorpio leaping about the country side?

With Kind Regards.

BLAKE.