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        General >> Problems >> Brake Cylinder. Including Photos.
        
(Message started by: Kenboy on Oct 22^nd, 2008, 4:09pm)

Title: Brake Cylinder. Including Photos.
Post by Kenboy on Oct 22^nd, 2008, 4:09pm

Hi I have fitted new brake discs and pads to the front and rear, but encountered a problem when fitting n/s read (Solid Discs) after replacing with new pads there was no way it was going to slide on to the disc I needed at least another 4mm I attempted to wind back the brake cylinder again but without success to cut a long story short I was forced to put the old brake pads back on and even fitting these was a mare now I know I am knocking 70 and perhaps should not be tackling these jobs but for the life of me I cannot understand as I am convinced the cylinder was not back far enough and yet I used the same winding back tool for the other three with no problem before I lose it all together can anyone shed some light on this problem btw took the car for a brake test and all seems well but I am unhappy with old disc pads being on. The disc I fitted is definately the right one and so are the brake pads, god I am rambling on here, suggestions please.

Kenboy

Title: Re: Brake Cylinder?
Post by Jonnycab on Oct 22^nd, 2008, 4:20pm

If the piston can't be fully pushed back then it sounds like it may be seized :(

Have you tried giving a bit more pressure when winding it back, this might free it if it's stuck :)

Title: Re: Brake Cylinder?
Post by cossie_al on Oct 22^nd, 2008, 5:27pm

If the piston is turning within the caliper body then it shouldnt be seized.
When I did mine with long nose pliars it did take ages to get it far enough back.
Its a while since I did them but from memory the piston was almost flush with the caliper body and even then there was very little clearence to get the whole lot back over the disc.

Title: Re: Brake Cylinder?
Post by peteHull on Oct 22^nd, 2008, 6:01pm

It does take ages with the longnosed pliers, i ended up buying the windback tool about £15 and it cut the time right back.... it should go all the way back until it stops then you'll have no more problems, it automatically adjusts.... ;)

Hth
Pete

Title: Re: Brake Cylinder?
Post by Highlander on Oct 22^nd, 2008, 6:24pm

Kenboy it may be that the handbrake part of the caliper is stuck on slightly so forcing the piston out a bit?
it works with a cam, make sure the arm that the cable connects to isnt seized or sticking.

the pistons sometimes come back out slowly on their own too, even with the reservoir lid removed, I've had to push them back then rush the pads and the caliper into place and over the disc before they come back out :)

Title: Re: Brake Cylinder?
Post by Kenboy on Oct 22^nd, 2008, 7:33pm

I think problem has been solved (I HOPE) I have a part time job driving school children to there homes and back and our Transits are maitained by our own Mechanic, when I explained the problem to him he immediaty told me what it was, he explained that the rear calipers are thread handed the n/s piston winder is turned to the right were as the o/s has an opposite thread and has to be wound back to the left, he explained this was peculiar to Fords, he has even loaned me the appropriate windy back tool for a left handed thread, this would explain why the old pads were difficult to fit back over the brake disc (I had been winding the wrong way) thus opening it. Come the weekend I will have another go and keep you informed,. (WE LIVE AND LEARN) but many thanks for your quick response.

Kenboy

Title: Re: Brake Cylinder?
Post by gozz on Oct 22^nd, 2008, 9:24pm

Kenboy.
I must say that all the Scorp brakes I have done,using 90 degree circlip pliers,I have never found them to have opposed threads.There is a strange anomoly whereby once or twice the bleed screw needs to be opened to get the piston right back.Don't ask me why,it defies logic,but it's a fact.
GOZZ.

Title: Re: Brake Cylinder?
Post by peteHull on Oct 22^nd, 2008, 9:29pm

I'm with Gozz too, Have done mine plenty of times, always turned them the same way.... ???

Title: Re: Brake Cylinder?
Post by Jonnycab on Oct 23^rd, 2008, 1:26am

Just to confirm, the rear caliper pistons do not have opposite threads......they both wind in clockwise :)

Title: Re: Brake Cylinder?
Post by Highlander on Oct 23^rd, 2008, 8:01am

Stay away from the Transit mechanic ;)

A lot of cars do have this left hand threaded rear caliper, not just Ford but the Scorpio doesnt.

Title: Re: Brake Cylinder?
Post by Snoopy on Oct 23^rd, 2008, 8:04am

I agree the Scorpio rear BRAKE CALIPERS only wind back CLOCKWISE

Title: Re: Brake Cylinder?
Post by gozz on Oct 23^rd, 2008, 8:31am

Kenboy.
By the sound of things,you should allow extra stopping distance when you drive those hildren in the Trannys ! :(
GOZZ.

Title: Re: Brake Cylinder?
Post by martin_rowe on Oct 23^rd, 2008, 8:59am

caliper will be 'normal' right hand thread as mentioned, make sure hand brake lever on caliper is right back on its stop, check that piston ratchets out when park lever worked. make sure cut out in piston aligns with pimple on back of pad.

Title: Re: Brake Cylinder?
Post by Simmo on Oct 23^rd, 2008, 9:14am

Highlander's suggestion at 4 seems to make sense. The reason the rear calipers wind back (and they do wind back clockwise as everyone else has said) is because the handbrake works on them. The lever on the top of the caliper is notorious for 'sticking' particularly if the car is an Auto and left in Park rather than using the h/brake. Did you use a 'wind back' tool the first time ?. Also make sure that the pins on the caliper are sliding freely. ;)

Title: Re: Brake Cylinder?
Post by Scorpio_Mike on Oct 23^rd, 2008, 9:33am

Both calipers wound back the same way when I did my brake pads - used the same windy-back tool on both.
Think the mechanics advice is wrong.

Title: Re: Brake Cylinder?
Post by mr._floppy on Oct 23^rd, 2008, 6:29pm

Unless you've got the wrong thickness discs :-/

Check that the handbrake lever is at its furthest back postion.

Well done to septuagenarian Kenboy ;) for tackling these tricky jobs.

I'm 20 years younger and my clickity joints don't take kindly to prolonged
kneeling and stretching. :P

Title: Re: Brake Cylinder?
Post by Kenboy on Oct 23^rd, 2008, 10:35pm

Well that one caused quite a stir and many thanks guys for your feedback and I have to say that the advice given to me by the said mechanic is obviously wrong but I do believe he acted in good faith I have printed these topics off and when Term Time starts again I will let him have a look, in the meantime I have no intention of attempting to replace with new pads, the ones I put on although not new have a fair bit of wear left in them and quite frankly I am sick of it. but once again many thanks for your feed back, absolutely suberb (Brilliant Forum).

Kenboy

Title: Re: Brake Cylinder?
Post by python9 on Oct 29^th, 2008, 7:34pm

i did discs and pads on the rear of my scorp and the both wound back clockwise with the wind back tool
very easy job to do i did the front discs and pads and pushed the piston back with the plastic end of awheel nut spanner

Title: Re: Brake Cylinder?
Post by mindofitsown on Nov 1^st, 2008, 11:04am

Kenboy,
I put new rear pads in my 2.0l Ultima yesterday and something interesting (infuriating at the time) happened. Winding back the piston on o/side was no problem (I use a manual wire stripper tool which works perfectly to do this). BUT, on the n/side I had a problem. The piston appeared to wind back about 3mm and then just kept turing but not going back any further. I checked to see if it was enough with the new pads and no way would they fit without the piston going back further. I kept on winding for 20 mins and still it would not move back even though it turns. I was stumped so I re-checked the hanbrake was off and the cam was back on its stop and still no joy. It was soon to get dark so rationale thinking started to go out the window and I started to believe I was winding the wrong way. So I wound it anti-clockwise just a few turns and the piston almost came out of the bore very rapidly (opposite to what I wanted). This confirmed (quite dramatically) that the original winding direction was correct (that is clockwise for both sides) so I tried again from this new start position and hey presto! it wound back all the way quickly and easily. Conclusion, although I'm not familiar with the caliper mechanics it was almost as if the mechanism for allowing winding back was 'disengaged' (hence me turning it endlessly to no avail) but by winding a few turns the opposite way had 're-engaged' the mechanism and it all worked from then on. I hope this information is useful to you but I would say beware because winding in the 'wrong' direction cause the piston to move relatively RAPIDLY and if done too much could (I guess) cause the piston to pop out completely (??).

Title: Re: Brake Cylinder?
Post by Kenboy on Nov 1^st, 2008, 3:36pm

Hi thanks for that, if and when I get round to doing it I will bear all comments in mind.

Kenboy

Title: Re: Brake Cylinder?
Post by tank on Dec 27^th, 2009, 9:08pm

i used my angel grinder key :)

Title: Re: Brake Cylinder?
Post by Snoopy on Dec 28^th, 2009, 8:42am

on 12/27/09 at 21:08:33, tank wrote:

i used my angel grinder key :)

Poor old ANGEL no wonder they are getting scarce .. }{ }{ }{

Title: Re: Brake Cylinder?
Post by Simmo on Dec 28^th, 2009, 2:46pm

These photos (http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=Advice;action=display;num=1253653471) show the internal mechanism which is a coarse threaded screw on which the piston rotates.

Title: Re: Brake Cylinder. Including Photos.
Post by Snoopy on Dec 29^th, 2009, 8:13am

I have put the Brake caliper pictures on a separate topic
HERE (http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=Advice;action=display;num=1262074205)