Ford Scorpio Forum - Print Page


    
      
        Ford Scorpio Forum
        (https://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl)
      

        General >> Problems >> lpg fueling problem
        
(Message started by: stafford on Oct 22^nd, 2008, 7:31pm)

Title: lpg fueling problem
Post by stafford on Oct 22^nd, 2008, 7:31pm

Hello any members running LPG or know anything about common faults on these fueling system? Mine is cutttining out a lot on LPg and it wont even start up when switching it over to petrol str8 after the lpg failing.. Its a oldish system put in 2000 the brain is a leonardo I think.. Im having to run round on petrol full time at mo and its make me sick!!!

Any ideas lads so at least Im armed with some possibles b4 I take her to alpg specialist??

Many Thanks

Title: Re: lpg fuelling problem
Post by scorpio_man on Oct 22^nd, 2008, 9:16pm

hi there

maybe the filter(s), if fitted, are blocked. :-/

English lpg is a bit oily (so i've been told), so normally they fit a filter in line somewhere. might be in the vapouriser. :-/

also could the vapouriser itself. i'd open it up to reset the spring. it might not open up to 2 halves (mine doesn't as the spring is still attached), so go gently.

to get 'rid' of the gas in the pipework (not the tank ;)), you'll need to find the earth wire from the solenoid (should be near the vapouriser). take this off. start car and when warm enough, switch to gas. it should cut out after a few seconds. do this again. you should be OK to take the system apart now.

should have asked this at the beginning. is it single, multi-point, or sequential system?

Title: Re: lpg fueling problem
Post by Thunderchild on Oct 22^nd, 2008, 9:49pm

I would check the multiplug to the "brain". It sounds like it is cutting off the gas but not switching back to the petrol injectors which is why it won't start on petrol. Most likely cause, I think, is corosion on the pins causing something like a bad earth. Pull the plug off and put it back on a few times to clear the crud off the pins and hopefully you should see some improvement.

HTH

Tc

Title: Re: lpg fueling problem
Post by Thunderchild on Oct 22^nd, 2008, 9:51pm

Just had another thought.

It might have nothing to do with the LPG at all and could be an electrical fault. Check for a spark at the plugs when it won't start.

Tc

Title: Re: lpg fueling problem
Post by stafford on Oct 22^nd, 2008, 10:47pm

so electrical fault could be an issue?? hmm i wonder as when i was ttrying to turn the engine over the speedo was spinning right up 2 9omph plus the 3 seat memory wires have been exposed lately as i broke them whilst leaning on the inside door..nothing to worry about or worth looking???

Highlander would you mind PM your mobile so I can talk wth you please whilst at my mechanics place it would be very helpful.. its one thing after another wth my scorp at the momenrt and sorry to say Im tempted to go German if things dont start improving!!

thanks lads

Title: Re: lpg fueling problem
Post by Thunderchild on Oct 22^nd, 2008, 10:59pm

Battery problem there. When all the dials spin round and then go back to zero, it's a sign that the battery is on the way out. Have your mechanic check the voltage, these cars are notoriously bad for not starting when the battery is low.

Tc

Title: Re: lpg fueling problem
Post by stafford on Oct 22^nd, 2008, 11:24pm

cant be the battery its brand new and the alternators fine ..green flag checked both at 10 am this morning... vaporiser seem s to be a very common fault on these cars doesnt it

Title: Re: lpg fueling problem
Post by Highlander on Oct 22^nd, 2008, 11:28pm

on 10/22/08 at 22:47:21, stafford wrote:

sorry to say Im tempted to go German if things dont start improving!!

Hmmmm my Scorpio was built in Cologne.... }{

PM sent ;D

Title: Re: lpg fueling problem
Post by gozz on Oct 22^nd, 2008, 11:48pm

Ah,but it aint a Merc or a BMW,but then it,s available at a knock down price,why ?
because it's ONLY :( an old Ford !
There are ten vehicles in my yard and nine of em are FORD !
We speak as we find(as they say around ere)!
GOZZ.

Title: Re: lpg fueling problem
Post by stafford on Oct 22^nd, 2008, 11:50pm

lol sorry highlander I did mean scorpioman as hes on lpg

so if you read this post scorpio man could I ring you tommoro for 10 mins whilst were looking at possible sticky valves and dirty filters etc..thanks

Title: Re: lpg fueling problem
Post by peteHull on Oct 23^rd, 2008, 7:49am

You would be as well to take it to an authorised LPG installers and have the system checked out, if it hasn't been properley serviced in the past it could have all sorts of problems. It should be serviced once a year to change filters and check for leaks, cable rubbing and wear/corrosion ect and after 5 yaers all the rubber pipework HAS to be replaced which is a statutary requirement.
The vehicle should be registered as a Dual fuel ie: Petrol/LPG on the log book to comply with insurance requirements etc.
A conversion, although it CAN be done on a DIY basis cost a lot of money to have fitted for the reasons of safety and correct operation. It is calibrated using system specific software and should run faultlessly thereafter, but it isn't a fit and forget set up.
I have run on LPG for about 3 years now in both my old Scorp (now being carefully looked after by GOZZ) and my present car. Four and half litre BMW, it is absolutely brilliant and I think all cars should be run on it.

For what it costs to have it checked out (especially if you haven't had the car long) it is well worth the money, especially with winter in the wings... :D

This is as always though, just my opinion based on my findings....

Hth
Pete

Title: Re: lpg fueling problem
Post by stafford on Oct 23^rd, 2008, 7:54am

thanks pete.. its been with me 3 yrs now and not been a problem..she does need a service now its become apparent.. I wonder how much it ll cost.. if its justa dirty valve in the vaporiser hopefully not too much but I have notied loss of power later and the odd backfire so gonna take her to LPG garage today.. and thanks to this site and you lads Ill not sound a total novice when speaking to the guy and less chance of being tucked up !!!

Title: Re: lpg fueling problem
Post by scorpio_man on Oct 23^rd, 2008, 8:32am

pm sent

Title: Re: lpg fueling problem
Post by Snoopy on Oct 23^rd, 2008, 9:46am

Speak to Martin Rowe. He is a gas fitter as far as I know and close to you .

Title: Re: lpg fueling problem
Post by stafford on Oct 23^rd, 2008, 4:21pm

hi snoopy whats his number???

Title: Re: lpg fueling problem
Post by martin_rowe on Oct 23^rd, 2008, 4:48pm

sorry number no good, go on me hols tonight. sounds like you need an LPG fitter, on first glance probably electrical, check all solenoids are earthed correctly, all wiring should be soldered, you may have a solenoid coil that is 'cutting out' when it gets hot, then working again when it cools a bit, vehicles allways harder to start after cutting out on LPG, as theres no fuel pressure (petrol) unless ECU resetts after shut down. make sure thers no leaks in the induction system, particularly if its single point / closed loop, bit more tolerant if its m/point, & too old for sequential. if all basics are ok then down to the controler (leonardo bit) which may need a hook to a reset tool (which tend to be system spacific) its the electric parts not the hardware that determines the type of system, ie stako tank, omvl vaporiser, leonardo controler etc)
there should be a filter in the front control solenoid (if ones been fitted) thats only a gause to filter out bits in the liquid LPG, only m/point / sequential systems have a vapour filter (with electronic injectors for the lpg)
your fault most likly to be down to corrosion / poor electrics / induction problem.
hope that helps a bit.

Title: Re: lpg fueling problem
Post by stafford on Oct 23^rd, 2008, 5:29pm

thanks Martin its booked in sat how much do yu think a service will be and a minor fault to sort then???

Title: Re: lpg fueling problem
Post by stafford on Oct 25^th, 2008, 2:57pm

Right the car was checked by LPg installer this morning apart from the valve saver fluid not dispensing a drop every 5 seconds the system s fine..the engine is misfiring and the this is really upsetting the LPG system. Its now cutting out on petrol as well and took car to ex AA fanatic whos convinced its dirty injectors and blocks in fuel rail..

He s gonna check all injectors with a diagnostic tool on Monday got new fuel filter coming and the loom and coil pack look ok at first glance.. new sparks are going in with 0.7 gap setting. Have stuck half a bottle of wynns fuel injector cleaner in as well.

My mates right on one hes gonna check the valves and whilst at it check the tensioners so the scorps getting som ewinter TLc as shes kicking off a bit!!!

Good news about the LPG tho....

Title: Re: lpg fueling problem
Post by scorpio_man on Oct 25^th, 2008, 3:27pm

hi there

good news about the lpg indead.

i'd check the tps, coilpacks and wiring before blaming the injectors/fuel system.

remember it started of not wanting to run on gas, now it's both. so i'd say petrol side of it was fine.

hth

btw, check for any air leaks in the induction side/egr valve.

Title: Re: lpg fueling problem
Post by stafford on Oct 25^th, 2008, 5:37pm

yes Andrew Im gonna def give those all a close look in the morning gonna check every spark plug closely and trace the look all over too..what you think then is the prime suspect on this misfire??

Title: Re: lpg fueling problem
Post by scorpio_man on Oct 25^th, 2008, 7:28pm

hi there

usual suspects..... fuel cut off loom and coil packs.

also check the lambda sensor. you can check it using obd2 or with a meter set to 1 or 2 volts. probe the black & grey wires, i think. :-/ it's the 2 wires which aren't the same colour, anyway. ;D

i meant to say, 0.7mm on the plugs might be a bit small. i run 0.8-0.9mm.

hth

oh, and check for any vac leaks, etc.

Title: Re: lpg fueling problem
Post by stafford on Oct 25^th, 2008, 10:55pm

thanks andrew...

what gap are the sparkplugs now then..they str8 out the box from halfords???

Title: Re: lpg fueling problem
Post by scorpio_man on Oct 26^th, 2008, 12:06pm

hi there

should be about 1mm (ngk and fords).

hth

Title: Re: lpg fueling problem
Post by stafford on Oct 26^th, 2008, 1:40pm

Just looking at the OBD pages on the forum ...gonna order a lead from Alex its £76 at current exchange rate..will this work on anewish dell inspiron tho only a serial port connection is it???

Title: Re: lpg fuelling problem
Post by scorpio_man on Oct 26^th, 2008, 2:15pm

hi there

are you saying your laptop has a serial port? if not, order the usb adaptor at the same time.

you might want to consider the tri-can lead, but it is $240! this can read most cars, though (sound like a salesman now)!

download the working demo, so you get a feel for tthe software.

hth

Title: Re: lpg fueling problem
Post by stafford on Oct 26^th, 2008, 6:07pm

Ill order the usb adapter then Andrew and the software comes of his site doesnt it??

Title: Re: lpg fueling problem
Post by scorpio_man on Oct 26^th, 2008, 6:36pm

on 10/26/08 at 18:07:50, stafford wrote:

Ill order the usb adapter then Andrew and the software comes of his site doesnt it??

yep, you just download the program and ALL the ford files.

as i said, download the demo and get a feel for it.

hth

Title: Re: lpg fueling problem
Post by stafford on Oct 27^th, 2008, 9:58pm

God I had to bring my laptop to my mates garage to show him the importance of reading the pcm wth the obd2 LEAD..YOU WOULD THINK HE'D KNOW THIS..will the nscan give a code for dodgy injectors???

Title: Re: lpg fuelling problem
Post by scorpio_man on Oct 27^th, 2008, 10:19pm

hi there

might show something in the fuel trims, not sure. :-/

remember, it's how the obd info is interpreted that's important, not just what it says.

it's not the b all and end all.

some old fashioned techniques are still required.

Title: Re: lpg fueling problem
Post by stafford on Oct 28^th, 2008, 10:08am

Andrew Ive been searching the site for the full list of fault codes can you help???

Title: Re: lpg fueling problem
Post by Simmo on Oct 28^th, 2008, 11:34am

I guess THIS (http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/codes.htm) is what you are looking for. ;)

Title: Re: lpg fueling problem
Post by stafford on Nov 2^nd, 2008, 11:56am

well new fuel filter on and I've had a look at all the plugs and leads and the coils..very slight repair on one of the loom leads but both coil packs solid ..now car is starting and ticking over for 10 mins at least ..still sounds like the odd missfire but shes running on lpg tickover anyway..

still not confident to drive the car on the road as another breakdown would do my nut and green flag may not tow home as they'd see it as exisiting fault..

One question....

If the fuel pumps playing up and the relay was clean so was the fuse... how would the car tick over so long???

thank

ps gave the MAF a brake clener burst also

Title: Re: lpg fueling problem
Post by stafford on Nov 12^th, 2008, 11:54am

Just an Update as I know a few members are interested in where this is goin as they also run LPG on a2.3

OBD2 scan reveals one fault code P0171 lean running

Scorpioman has coached me what to look for EGR pipe wise and all air leak possible suspects..gonna spray WD40 whilst engine running to see if airs being sucked in anywhere?

Gonna run another scan Fri static..engine on and then driving as well