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        General >> Problems >> COSSY (1997) INTERIOR CONDENSATION
        
(Message started by: gerryw on Dec 10^th, 2008, 7:21pm)

Title: COSSY (1997) INTERIOR CONDENSATION
Post by gerryw on Dec 10^th, 2008, 7:21pm

Hi all, I am having some heater problems with my Cossy so Ive set them out below!

1st - The heater does not work (just blows out cold air).

2nd - When parked up for awhile after driving (shopping) or parking for the night on returning my cossies interior windows have heavy condensation on them and are dripping wet.

3rd - The AC Compressor has packed up (I have purchased a 2nd hand Comp) but has yet to be fitted, so the AC obviously does not work.

4th - The Temp guage is erratic... it takes an age to move off cold but goes up and down also it will move near the top if I stand for any amount of time in traffic (Ive had to buy a small ceramic 12v heater that runs off the Cig Plug (Dooh).

Finally, if I leave the Sunroof slightly open to allow air in the risk of condensation is greatly reduced but I dont think this is a good idea?

Any help with this litany of problems will be greatly appreciated
Gerryw

Title: Re: COSSY (1997) INTERIOR CONDENSATION
Post by Highlander on Dec 10^th, 2008, 7:23pm

Was it working previously?
is it using water?
sounds like you have a leaking and or blocked heater matrix.

Tried a reset?

http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/ccreset.htm

And check these

http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/acdrain.htm

The two heater hoses that go through the bulkhead, are they hot once its up to temperature?

Title: Re: COSSY (1997) INTERIOR CONDENSATION
Post by Highlander on Dec 10^th, 2008, 7:24pm

Possibly the thermostat is stuck open too if its running cold?

are the cooling fans coming on when its overheating?

Title: Re: COSSY (1997) INTERIOR CONDENSATION
Post by mr._floppy on Dec 10^th, 2008, 7:26pm

Check your footwell carpets for rainwater ingress.

The A/C is designed to rid the car's interior of moisture ( not just to cool the inside temp in summer ) so you'll need to get that fixed first.

Title: Re: COSSY (1997) INTERIOR CONDENSATION
Post by Highlander on Dec 10^th, 2008, 7:30pm

on 12/10/08 at 19:26:33, mr._floppy wrote:

The A/C is designed to rid the car's interior of moisture ( not just to cool the inside temp in summer ) so you'll need to get that fixed first.

removing the moisture IS what cools it ;)

Title: Re: COSSY (1997) INTERIOR CONDENSATION
Post by Cosray - The Hague - Holland on Dec 10^th, 2008, 9:31pm

Hi GerryW --

I experienced the same. In your case it seems there is a coincidence of known errors which now accumulate.

1) Cossie's design has poor natural ventilation with windows closed. It does not have an automatic air release as in other cars.

Generally for good ventilation one needs an air current which by simple physics laws requires a sufficient inlet AND outlet - your Sunroof is ideal because of the natural chimney effect.

In this cold and damp wheather my Cossie - with the perfect Airco switched to OFF, heating ON and windows closed - will develop steamy windows in 5 minutes. Plain condensation.

My A/C therefore is always ON - summer or winter - heating or cooling - and perfect since it absorbs the condensation humidity from the inlet air. never a damp sterringwheel, never damp seats etc.! Use it always - Cossie has a SATC for a good reason.

2) Get your Airco fixed; a Cossie cannot do without.

3) Your engine's thermostat plays up. It is a very simple medieval device, which will suddenly give up or behave erraticly, easy to get at and replace below the engine, especially when the A/C job's being done.

Besides it affects the proper working of the whole SATC Airco system + influences your EEC-V computations and engine and autobox performance if failing!
Get it fixed or your troubles will persist.

4) Your instrument cluster plays up. Do you have funny open closures indications sometimes? Tripcomputer not responding? Does your airbag light come ON sometimes?

This is all due to eroded connectors at the back of the instrument cluster. Remove the dashfascia - it is les difficult than it seems, there is an execllent article on the website, just SEARCH - pull out the instrument cluster and spray/clean/brush all 6 multiplug connector strips. Bingo.

PS Do not forget to replace ALL LAMPS (about 12 or so!) when it's open and out!

5) As mentioned in this article get to the 2 tubes emerging from your A/C housing, directly behind the engine, and pull each waterdrain and clean/replace it.

http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/acdrain.htm

This is a vital operation each year, even with a proper A/C as Cossie's natural ventilation is insufficeint. Wait for your engine to be cold!
Use a little loop to pull one difficult drain towards you. Send me a PM for details.

HTH, worked for me!
Ray

Title: Re: COSSY (1997) INTERIOR CONDENSATION
Post by rich1 on Dec 10^th, 2008, 9:54pm

ive discovered today (thanks to estate maiden and kieth) that mt fans are not working but cant work out why?

Title: Re: COSSY (1997) INTERIOR CONDENSATION
Post by Highlander on Dec 10^th, 2008, 9:55pm

Need to disagree with some of that Ray,

I run a 24v with no AC and there are NO condensation problems with it, it wasnt standard on every 24v so they can do without AC.

ANY car with heating on and no AC in cold weather will suffer condensation until it warms up, its not exclusively a 24v or indeed a Scorpio condition.

Gerry only has a temperature gauge that is a bit erratic, he doesnt have any other erratic instrumentation so I dont think the connector is the problem or the dash needs removed, I suspect his problem is either a thermostat/cooling fans or just a sender unit problem but we need more info to determine this.

Title: Re: COSSY (1997) INTERIOR CONDENSATION
Post by Highlander on Dec 10^th, 2008, 9:57pm

on 12/10/08 at 21:54:11, rich1 wrote:

ive discovered today (thanks to estate maiden and kieth) that mt fans are not working but cant work out why?

Big green relay in the engine bay down behind the drivers side headlight, check that first

http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/coolfans.htm

Title: Re: COSSY (1997) INTERIOR CONDENSATION
Post by rich1 on Dec 10^th, 2008, 10:05pm

thats where it is ??? we were looking for that b****r all afternoon ;D
if i had brains i`d be dangerous ::)
will check that in the morning , cheers highlander

Title: Re: COSSY (1997) INTERIOR CONDENSATION
Post by Highlander on Dec 10^th, 2008, 10:09pm

Title: Re: COSSY (1997) INTERIOR CONDENSATION
Post by Cosray - The Hague - Holland on Dec 10^th, 2008, 10:12pm

on 12/10/08 at 21:55:52, Highlander wrote:

Great Highlander -- if you are right Gerry's lucky!

Ciao, Ray

Title: Re: COSSY (1997) INTERIOR CONDENSATION
Post by Highlander on Dec 10^th, 2008, 10:22pm

He doesnt sound lucky :)

Title: Re: COSSY (1997) INTERIOR CONDENSATION
Post by Tompion on Dec 10^th, 2008, 11:03pm

on 12/10/08 at 21:31:04, Cosray - The Hague - Holland wrote:

1) Cossie's design has poor natural ventilation with windows closed. It does not have an automatic air release as in other cars.

There are vents to under the car each side of the boot behind the side panels,
air flows through the vents in the parcel shelf on a saloon & out through the boot vents.

Title: Re: COSSY (1997) INTERIOR CONDENSATION
Post by Cosray - The Hague - Holland on Dec 10^th, 2008, 11:30pm

Hi Tompion,

this is quite extraordinary news - since my Ford friends nor me were able to find these vents... and have blamed it on the design... would you please be of help and could you give us a more precise location description OR how to get to them?

Would they open up under the rear bumper?

We'd like to inspect them as they may be clogged or closed off...

Would you have a stuation plan or a sketch maybe?

Looking forward,

Ray & his Ford friends

Title: Re: COSSY (1997) INTERIOR CONDENSATION
Post by gerryw on Dec 12^th, 2008, 1:08pm

Hi All,

I am really grateful for all your replies to my COSSY problem and I am slowly working through them.

I hope to be able to get the A/C system up and running as the 1st step in curring the condensation problem.

I am hopeful of getting a thermostat by the end of next week to go with my 2nd hand A/C compressor so that both can be fitted at the same time, then get it gassed and see what happens...?

I will keep all of you who posted answers to my problem up to date on my progress.

Many thanks
Gerryw

Title: Re: COSSY (1997) INTERIOR CONDENSATION
Post by Highlander on Dec 12^th, 2008, 3:54pm

The aircon WILL remove your condensation Gerry BUT there is still something causing it

Title: Re: COSSY (1997) INTERIOR CONDENSATION
Post by scorpio_man on Dec 12^th, 2008, 4:10pm

on 12/12/08 at 15:54:59, Highlander wrote:

The aircon WILL remove your condensation Gerry BUT there is still something causing it

[]

Title: Re: COSSY (1997) INTERIOR CONDENSATION
Post by Tompion on Dec 13^th, 2008, 12:39am

on 12/10/08 at 23:30:33, Cosray - The Hague - Holland wrote:

Hi Ray

They are plastic hang down each side and are covered by the bumper, but you can see them from underneath. If you turn the blower on full & reach under the bumper you should feel the air coming out, they point inwards & have a crude rubber flap that hangs down over the outlet.

Dave

Title: Re: COSSY (1997) INTERIOR CONDENSATION
Post by Cosray - The Hague - Holland on Dec 13^th, 2008, 8:37am

Thanks Tompion, will have a look while the wife is doing her Saturday shopping ;-))
Ray

Title: Re: COSSY (1997) INTERIOR CONDENSATION
Post by gerryw on Dec 13^th, 2008, 11:25am

Hi Highlander/Scorpio-man/Everybody,

Yes I also think that there is an underlying cause for the condensation. Just this morning (raining and the windscreen/doors and rearscreen all clear), I drove about 3 miles to a friends and had cold air (heater not working as explained in 1st post) blowing on windscreen and a small heater (attached to the Cig-Plug) to at least get some warm air, and the screens stayed clear all the way rto my friends.

I was there about half-an-hour then left but as soon as I drove off all the screens immediately misted over, could'nt see a thing. I had to use W/screen inbuilt heating to allow me some vision. After about a mile, with S/roof slightly open and the blowers on full blast, the screens cleared.

So, does the above shed any light on what may be causing the Condensation problem? I know its getting to be a P-in-the-A and I appologise, but you can imagine what it must be like driving my Cossy but I just LOVE this car... its a wolf in sheeps clothing and I aim to get it right with your help?

Thanks everybody, I really appreciate all the help and guidance you are giving me!
Gerryw

Title: Re: COSSY (1997) INTERIOR CONDENSATION
Post by scorpio_man on Dec 13^th, 2008, 11:47am

hi there

it could be a few things.

leak at the heater matrix. do you get a 'curry' smell when you do a cc reset?
the a/c drain pipes are blocked.
the pollen filter is blocked.
the de ice switch is faulty (your a/c isn't working so won't be this).
leaking windscreen.

hth

Title: Re: COSSY (1997) INTERIOR CONDENSATION
Post by Tompion on Dec 13^th, 2008, 12:45pm

Possibly sticking on recirculated air.

There are times when if you have it set to auto it may do it itself, I know the example below is for cooling, but just makes the point:

( from http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/aircon.htm )

"For example if high cooling power is required when the ac is first switched on then the system will automatically switch to recirculated air to achieve maximum cooling even though the LED in the recirc switch will not illuminate"

Title: Re: COSSY (1997) INTERIOR CONDENSATION
Post by gerryw on Dec 13^th, 2008, 12:47pm

Hi scorpio-man

1, C.C. Reset? I dont remember/know of that one, if you could let me know how then I would carry out the C.C.Reset and make sure my nose is in the right place to carry out the 'sniff' test and let you know?

2, I know where the A/C Drains are and I will check them out and again let you know what I found?

3, Can you let me know where the pollen filter is and how to clean it please?

4, Leaking windscreen... never thought of that, but will have a look asap (and its a good time because its been raing Cs & Ds here.

Thanks for your post and I will be back to with the info regarding the above.

Many Regards
Gerryw

Title: Re: COSSY (1997) INTERIOR CONDENSATION
Post by Tompion on Dec 13^th, 2008, 12:52pm

If you look at the bottom of the link I just posted you'll see a link to CC reset

http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/ccreset.htm

Title: Re: COSSY (1997) INTERIOR CONDENSATION
Post by gerryw on Dec 13^th, 2008, 12:58pm

Hi Tompion,

I had just replied to scorpio-man's post when I got your post... thank you.

I will look into that as I recollect that when everything (A/C. Heater etc) was working OK that sometimes, when I turned on the 'recirculated' air button, the inside of the Cossy misted up?

Problem now is, with the A/C and the Heater not working, how will I know if the 'recirculated' air button is on or off (or can I temporarily disable it?

Thanks again for your posts, much appreciated...

Many Regards
Gerryw

Title: Re: COSSY (1997) INTERIOR CONDENSATION
Post by Tompion on Dec 13^th, 2008, 1:34pm

Well just guessing here.

Click on pictures 2 & 3 here:

http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/fanrepair.htm

It shows the vacuum motor that works the recirculation flap when the engine is running.
Look to see if the arm’s in a different position when you have problems.

Title: Re: COSSY (1997) INTERIOR CONDENSATION
Post by Simmo on Dec 13^th, 2008, 2:11pm

Have you checked the pollen filter ?. If that is wet/dirty it will affect the air con. Is the lid properly clipped in place?.

Title: Re: COSSY (1997) INTERIOR CONDENSATION
Post by mr._floppy on Dec 13^th, 2008, 4:49pm

I had this problem of condensation, only when and after it had rained.

I discovered the rain was getting in at the seal on the bottom of driver's side fuse - box, dripping down into the electrical gubbins in the driver's footwell ( which caused the PATS light to be continually on ).

I constructed a fuse box cover out of plastic to deflect the rainwater down the drain hole and away from the fusebox.

It seems to work.

Title: Re: COSSY (1997) INTERIOR CONDENSATION
Post by gaz01gaz on Dec 13^th, 2008, 6:38pm

the pollen filter advice is worth its weight too...every car i have bought i change the pollen filter//if its clogged you get massive condensation problems....a cheap fix too at about £10 "!!!!!!!! check it out man

Title: Re: COSSY (1997) INTERIOR CONDENSATION
Post by Cosray - The Hague - Holland on Dec 13^th, 2008, 7:22pm

This must be one of the most popular 2008 forum topics..! I have read all of them with great admiration.
Summarizing, applying some physics laws:
Condensation in cold air should normally be low -- as we all know humidity in cold air is low, sometimes even materializing as snow.
In hot air moisture behaves as in a sauna - very humid. (Which a working A/C could remove of course)
Our friends' heater NOR A/C works. The opened sunroof does gets rid of the damp - it effectively replaces interior dampness with lower outside humidity.
So, if our friend experiences condensation in cold air it follows his air is saturated with water - his own breathing or upholstery dampness.
Therefore all closures opening to outside air must be closed off leaving the interior to its occupants and contained air.
It follows then his A/C drainpipes are clogged, his inoperable A/C cannot remove the moisture, his recirculate door is CLOSED; an effective airflow is not possible.
Your SATC processorunit may be shot or it needs to be reset! Have you reset it according to the website? What were the display readings in the end? The vacuumhose for the Recirculate door motor may be leaking, its wiring may be kaput, the airvents at the back, to which Tompion pointed are clogged.
In short: there is no proper outside airflow nor ventilation (= air displacement) and thus no dehydration. You are breathing in a bag. It seems a cumulation of errors. Most of the posters have addressed all of these causes to be corrected and I would try 'm all.
Ray

Title: Re: COSSY (1997) INTERIOR CONDENSATION
Post by gerryw on Dec 14^th, 2008, 2:27am

I have to admit that the amount of information (via the posts) I have received regarding my COSSY Condensation Problem is quite staggering!

I am going to go work through all Posted suggestions step by step until I solve the problem (hopefully sooner than later) and keep you all informed of my progress...!

Again, I am very grateful for all the help and advice I have received...
Gerryw

Title: Re: COSSY (1997) INTERIOR CONDENSATION
Post by Tim_Lusername on Dec 30^th, 2008, 2:04pm

Boot vents.

One very minor point - if you want to get at the rear vent covers then an easy way is to reach under the rear bumper wraparounds and feel for a large-ish plastic fin (approx 50mm across). It is the side fixing for the bumper, give that 1/4 turn and remove it. You can now GENTLY! pull down the bumper which gives you access to the two pozidrive screws which secure the plastic vent cover in place.

That's the way it works on the 24v Estate - I'd assume the Saloon is similar.....what's the betting it's not though :-)))

HTH

Title: Re: COSSY (1997) INTERIOR CONDENSATION
Post by Cosray - The Hague - Holland on Dec 30^th, 2008, 4:34pm

Tim_Lusername thanks for the tip.

I just cracked my rearbumper on a miserably small and low and invisible concrete streetcolumn so I will be under teh bumper soon.

;) With All my best wishes for the New Year to You All here on the Forum ;D--

Ray

Title: Re: COSSY (1997) INTERIOR CONDENSATION
Post by gerryw on Jan 10^th, 2009, 2:00pm

Hi all,

Just an update on the ongoing work and the good advice that all you good folks have posted to me...!

I have now had the A/C Compressor replaced by a 2nd-hand one and a 2nd-hand Thermostat also fitted (thanks BAZ)! and now just trying to find a local A/C Company that will regass my A/C.

As an aside line..., I also need a SUMP if anybody knows where I can get one at a reasonable cost?

Thanks everybody,
Gerryw

Title: Re: COSSY (1997) INTERIOR CONDENSATION
Post by scorpio_man on Jan 10^th, 2009, 2:51pm

hi there

kwik-fit do a/c re-gasses for about £45.

remember the scorpio needs 1kg (1000g).

you are better to use a 'real' a/c guy is possible. ;)

hth

Title: Re: COSSY (1997) INTERIOR CONDENSATION
Post by gerryw on Jan 11^th, 2009, 3:44pm

Thanks Scorpio-Man,

I went to Kwik-Fit and they do a Re-gas for £25.00 but unfortunately my Cossy had a fault...

The valve that they use to re-gas the system is faulty so I need to know do I have to win the lottery to replace it. Because the valve seems to be situated in a very long A/C pipe which dissapear into the bulkhead and the other end into some other fixing (no idea what it is).

I hope that someone can let me know what I need to get to fix the/replace the valve and if it is as I expect, Very Expensive!!!

One can but hope I'm wrong?

Regards
Gerryw ???

Title: Re: COSSY (1997) INTERIOR CONDENSATION
Post by scorpio_man on Jan 11^th, 2009, 3:50pm

hi there

which valve are they talking about?

see the photo 1/2 down this page.... http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/acrecharge.htm

red or blue?

hth

Title: Re: COSSY (1997) INTERIOR CONDENSATION
Post by gerryw on Jan 11^th, 2009, 5:05pm

Hi Scorpio-man

Its the blue one (nearest the Damper and the bulk head).

Hope that helps...?

Regards
Gerryw

Title: Re: COSSY (1997) INTERIOR CONDENSATION
Post by scorpio_man on Jan 11^th, 2009, 6:14pm

hi there

what did they say was wrong with your valve? it's really only like a car tyre valve. :-/

i tried to look the pipe work up on the ford data, but it's a bit hard to tell if it's the correct part from a diagram. the first bit (if correct ;)) costs £110!!! don't know what the other bit costs.

might be an idea to take it to a 'real' a/c guy. :) see what they think.

where in the country are you?
http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/acdealers.htm

Title: Re: COSSY (1997) INTERIOR CONDENSATION
Post by gerryw on Jan 11^th, 2009, 6:35pm

Hi Scorpio-man

The Kwik-Fit guys say that the Gas was leaking from the valve when they disengaged the gas injector pipe from the valve after re-gassing the system! (Its supposed to act like a car/bike tyre valve - let air in but not out)

They said that I needed to replace the valve or see if could be fixed. Thats was Kwik-Fit diagnosis of the problem?

So do you think that I may have to replace the whole line?

Regards
Gerryw

Title: Re: COSSY (1997) INTERIOR CONDENSATION
Post by gerryw on Jan 11^th, 2009, 6:38pm

Hi again Scorpio-man,

I forgot to tell you my location...

I live in Runcorn, Cheshire (not far from Frodsham, Widnes and Warrington).

Hope this is of help to you?

Regards
Gerryw

Title: Re: COSSY (1997) INTERIOR CONDENSATION
Post by scorpio_man on Jan 11^th, 2009, 6:47pm

hi there

it might be fixable, but i'm not sure. i would hope so at the price of the pipework!

wait and see if anyone near you knows of a good a/c place.

hth

Title: Re: COSSY (1997) INTERIOR CONDENSATION
Post by gerryw on Jan 11^th, 2009, 7:00pm

Hi Scorpio-man

Thanks for time and help.

I'll wait and see what turns up and hopefully be able to either get it repaired or get hold of a 2nd hand one (in good condition of course).

I'm not sure that I want to pay out that sort of money plus the labour cost. I may have to do without any A/C (hope its stays below 21c in the summer ha ha) 8)

Regards
Gerryw