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        General >> Problems >> ABS light on 17mph+ TCS not on on startup  
        
(Message started by: hopper on Dec 24^th, 2008, 8:30pm)

Title: ABS light on 17mph+ TCS not on on startup
Post by hopper on Dec 24^th, 2008, 8:30pm

Hi again,

The ABS light comes on when ignition is switched on and goes off after the initial test cycle, From what I've noticed the TCS light though is not illuminating on the initial 3sec test however I don't know for sure if the bulb works or is even there I'll look into this and add the extra details by Sat 27th. Once the car pulls away the ABS light stays out until 17mph is reached then the light stays on constantly. I have noticed that there is a small amount of Red liquid under the car that again i'll look into this weekend it could be Brake, Power steering or gearbox fluid at the moment. I have read other ABS problems and 1 in particular where 17mph was mentioned but the person raising the issue didn't reply to the post. I'd be very intrigued to hear what the 17mph signifies

Regards Chris

Title: Re: ABS light on 17mph+ TCS not on on startup
Post by gozz on Dec 24^th, 2008, 9:26pm

hopper.
The ABS symptom to which you relate is almost always a broken joint in the module on the unit.There is a slim possibility of a faulty wheel sensor even due to a failing rear wheel bearing,but the former is more likely.
GOZZ

Title: Re: ABS light on 17mph+ TCS not on on startup
Post by hopper on Dec 24^th, 2008, 9:40pm

Hi Gozz,

The unit you refer to is it the one situated in the engine bay on the front left hand side behind the screen wash bottle? Any ideas how much that unit sells for?

Regards Chris

Title: Re: ABS light on 17mph+ TCS not on on startup
Post by Simmo on Dec 24^th, 2008, 10:23pm

Chris, the symptoms you describe re the ABS are a classic sign of the soldered joints 'failing' in the controller. Depending on the year and model of car this is fitted either under or in front of the ABS unit on the front offisde wing. Tompion has posted details of his repair method- Here (http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/abscontrollerrepair.htm). The 15mph seems to relate to the speed at which the unit is designed to commence operation. It passes the 'static' test and the light goes out BUT comes on again at 15mph. The fault code reads that the motor has failed BUT in reality the power is just not getting to it because the joints have failed. The simple test is to unplug the MOTOR connection,a small two pin plug, and apply 12v to it. If it runs then the motor is clearly not at fault. As the TC is an integral part of this system I guess that is related. Try the test and get back to us. The details of how to remove the entire unit, should that be necessary, are on the site and I'll put up the link once you've tried the simple bit!!. ;)

Title: Re: ABS light on 17mph+ TCS not on on startup
Post by gozz on Dec 24^th, 2008, 11:07pm

hopper.
Yes as Simmo says that is the offending article.The price from Ford,if you could still get it,would be ridiculous.They are in the breakers yards,but you always run the risk of getting another duff one.BBA Reman do a testing service for I think about £35,and will repair it if faulty for quite a lot more ! If you stick with Simmo,he will guide you in a sensible direction,other members have successfully repaired them.
GOZZ.

Title: Re: ABS light on 17mph+ TCS not on on startup
Post by hopper on Dec 24^th, 2008, 11:10pm

Hi Simmo,

I have a 1995 Cosworth24v Estate it looks like this module is fitted to the right of the ABS unit and has a multipin connector incerted into the top of it. How easy is it to be removed if this is the correct part i'm looking at?

Regards Chris

Title: Re: ABS light on 17mph+ TCS not on on startup
Post by gozz on Dec 24^th, 2008, 11:19pm

On that year the module was fitted underneath the ABS unit with a multiplug on the engine side of it.The 24v is different having traction control,and has more pipes,it is not easy to remove but can be done without disconnecting the brake pipes.The module is apparently to the uninitiated,part of the ABS unit,but is held on to the bottom of it by two tricky screws.
GOZZ.

Title: Re: ABS light on 17mph+ TCS not on on startup
Post by Simmo on Dec 24^th, 2008, 11:21pm

Chris. On mine the large mutipin socket is a aeparate plug. The motor is connected by a simple two pin plug running from the actual motor to the controller. I'm not familiar with the Cosworth layout I'm afraid and as I said earlier they all seem to vary in type and position. No doubt someone who has a Cossie will be able to help.

In the meantime have a read of THIS page (http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/absmodulator.htm) and check out the other links.

If you study THIS photo from the set (http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/images/absimage11.jpg) you can see the two pin connector running from the motor(Black cylinder) to the controller.

Title: Re: ABS light on 17mph+ TCS not on on startup
Post by Tompion on Dec 28^th, 2008, 8:22pm

The only removable warning lights in the instrument panel are the green ones (overdrive, cruise control & trailer) the others are soldered in led's.

I should check the sensors/sensor rings first for dirt/magnetic debris.
The rear sensors come out easily.
The front sensors rarely come out without damage, remove the inner plastic hub cap and clean them & the sensor ring from there.
A faulty controller would normally fail the initial ignition on test.
Getting the codes read makes it a lot easier.

Dave

Title: Re: ABS light on 17mph+ TCS not on on startup
Post by hopper on Dec 28^th, 2008, 10:57pm

Hi Dave,

I'm in process of deciding to purchase the OBDII leads and software to run the diagnostics the obd.com website is around $198 for the correct lead to run engine,abs,tcs air con diagnosis with usb connector. Or there is a uk product listed at £26.99 + P&P for a 327 unit lead and software which seems much better value.
Recently i jacked up the drivers side to change the oil and filter and since then the tcs light has started to flicker on the dash and now some times it will stay on constantly with the abs light once +15mph is acheived.

Is there any members in the Plymouth area that have the OBD system and would be willing to help me and advise where to purchase my own diagnostic programme and leads for a raesonable price? $198 is more than my budget can stretch to at the moment.

Regards Chris

Title: Re: ABS light on 17mph+ TCS not on on startup
Post by Tompion on Dec 28^th, 2008, 11:21pm

You may find the cheaper unit will not be able to read ABS.
I would check & clean the rear sensors & sensor rings.
The face of the sensor should be flat, if it’s concave it has probably come into contact with the sensor ring at some time due to a bad wheel bearing. It doesn’t necessarily matter but can produce a fault due to too big an air gap.

Title: Re: ABS light on 17mph+ TCS not on on startup
Post by hopper on Dec 28^th, 2008, 11:34pm

Hi Tompion,

Thanks I'm not working this weekend so will have a go at the rear sensors first as they also connect to the TCS if that's correct? Then I'll try the front, one of the earlier replies also suggested checking the pins on the ABS mobule for a crack or break in the soldering which i'l also look into once I've done this i'll post the results and hopefully all will be as new.

Thanks Chris

Title: Re: ABS light on 17mph+ TCS not on on startup
Post by Tompion on Dec 28^th, 2008, 11:51pm

Yes same sensors, which is why I suggest checking the rears first.

I would expect the light not to go out for the static test if the controller pins were faulty.

I posted a couple of pictures of the pins for the earlier type of controller here (the second picture indicates an earth test for one of the pins):
http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=Advice;action=display;num=1223490176

Title: Re: ABS light on 17mph+ TCS not on on startup
Post by hopper on Jan 3^rd, 2009, 2:24am

HI gUYS,

Is the3 ABS module the same thing as the ABS controller? If not where is the controller situated as I think it is the controller that i need to solder the faulty pins.

Regards Chris

Title: Re: ABS light on 17mph+ TCS not on on startup
Post by gozz on Jan 3^rd, 2009, 9:45am

hopper.
It's the aforementioned control module fixed under the ABS unit,the later ones are fixed to the front of the ABS module and can be removed in five minutes.Yours,if it is the early type takes a little longer.
GOZZ

Title: Re: ABS light on 17mph+ TCS not on on startup
Post by hopper on Jan 3^rd, 2009, 5:30pm

Hi Gozz,

Yes unfortunately mine is the earlier type so will take a little longer to remove and check the circuit board for broken soldered joints.

Thanks Chris

Title: Re: ABS light on 17mph+ TCS not on on startup
Post by Scorpio_Mike on Jan 3^rd, 2009, 7:13pm

Chris,

It is possible on your type on ABS controller to remove the black box without disconnecting the hydraulic brake pipes - fiddly but it can be done and probably well worth doing.
You will need to undo the bracket from underneath the wheelarch and use a very flat socket wrench tool to hold the Torx bit.
Simmo has done it quite recently.

Title: Re: ABS light on 17mph+ TCS not on on startup
Post by Simmo on Jan 4^th, 2009, 7:57am

Chris. Have you done the 12v test on the motor that I mentioned earlier? :)

Title: Re: ABS light on 17mph+ TCS not on on startup
Post by Tompion on Jan 4^th, 2009, 8:44pm

on 12/28/08 at 23:51:52, Tompion wrote:

I would expect the light not to go out for the static test if the controller pins were faulty.

Mike (Simmo) tells me with his car “The light went OUT on start up BUT came on as soon as the speed reached 15mph.”

I suppose what seemed odd to me about this was that your light consistently came on at that speed.

My experience was of the light coming on after a few miles (I think the heat in the engine compartment may have had something to do with it). With the period of working getting shorter until it finally stayed on permanently.

I suppose there may be a static and a rolling test, but thinking about when we looked at Mike’s ABS, I think we cleared the code & he took it for a run & the light came back on. Whereas with mine I couldn’t clear the code so possibly the tests are different for the two types of controller.

As it happens I just stopped off to read the codes of a later style controller for someone on the mailing list & his had behaved the same as mine. He had the 1095 code which wouldn’t clear & it was the pins, which have now been soldered.

So as you have the earlier style controller ignore my comment ;D

Dave