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        General >> Problems >> Interesting squeak / squeal :-( 24v Estate
        
(Message started by: Tim_Lusername on Jan 2^nd, 2009, 1:08pm)

Title: Interesting squeak / squeal :-( 24v Estate
Post by Tim_Lusername on Jan 2^nd, 2009, 1:08pm

Hi

I replaced the front brakes on my 24v Estate recently - checked the rears at the same time and they had about 5mm of pad left.

About a week later a squeak a bit like a dry damper for want of a better description appeared. If you rocked the car you could replicate the squeaking. This has now developed into a full blown squeal while driving along which sounds like a big piece of metal rubbing against the brake disks.

The "interesting" thing is - it's intermittent - on a journey across town it will squeal like a pig - driving home hardly a squeak!

Any ideas please before I pull my hair out and the wheels to pieces.

Some pointers -

I'm only guessing it's wheel related - no proof at the mo

Girlfriend moved the gear lever from D to P at low speed driving out of a garage! d**n manual drivers!!!

It's intermittent

Vehicle speed not engine speed related - ie nothing when stationary

Dampers squeak a bit when you rock the car

Brakes work fine - have done some test emergency stops and all seems fine

No vibration that I can detect at all under acceleration, cruising or braking

No steering issues - tracking slightly off to the left but this is no better or worse than before.

Any ideas please?

Thanks

Tim

Title: Re: Interesting squeak / squeal :-( 24v Estate
Post by Highlander on Jan 2^nd, 2009, 1:26pm

front or rear??

check the wheel bearings, you will need to jack the wheel off the ground to check the rears

Title: Re: Interesting squeak / squeal :-( 24v Estate
Post by Tim_Lusername on Jan 2^nd, 2009, 1:39pm

Hi

Thanks for the quick response.

Have tried to "wobble" the front wheels and they seem pretty firm, haven't had a go at the rears yet, not sure how much play to look for either? how much is bad??

The noise seems to be from the passenger side - front and rear! but it's hard to pin it down. Will get a friend round tomorrow to try and get a better idea of the location.

Cheers

Tim

Title: Re: Interesting squeak / squeal :-( 24v Estate
Post by Highlander on Jan 2^nd, 2009, 1:41pm

Any play is bad, rear wheel bearings can fail with no warning and usually take out the whole hub

Title: Re: Interesting squeak / squeal :-( 24v Estate
Post by Tim_Lusername on Jan 2^nd, 2009, 5:47pm

OK thanks for the advice, I'll jack the rear up tomorrow and have a look.
Just looked this up http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/rhubs.htm
Sounds like it might be the same thing.

Thanks for your help. This is an Estate car, I have a Saloon which I could use as a donor. Would the hubs be the same do you know?

Title: Re: Interesting squeak / squeal :-( 24v Estate
Post by Highlander on Jan 2^nd, 2009, 5:53pm

Yep the 24v and the estate use the same bits

Title: Re: Interesting squeak / squeal :-( 24v Estate
Post by Snoopy on Jan 2^nd, 2009, 6:58pm

I would say its definitely Rear Wheel bearings .. from MY own past experiences

Title: Re: Interesting squeak / squeal :-( 24v Estate
Post by gozz on Jan 3^rd, 2009, 12:17am

Tim.
The rear wheel bearings on these cars have a character of their own,the sound that you describe could indeed be a worn bearing.If you jack it up and waggle the wheels top and bottom and play is detected,you know the problem.However I have experienced rough noisy bearings with no play,the only way to feel this is to go to a fair bit of bother,and remove the bolts from the outer CV joint,and possibly the caliper,enabling you to get a spin whereby the roughness can be felt.If the bearings are rough,failure is fairly imminent,and should be attended to.The car can be jacked up under the suspension arms just clear of the ground,and run in gear,you may be able to detect sound via a stethoscope or piece of tube,the problem is that sound is transmitted through the diff,so a careful sounding should be made to locate the noisiest side.
Good luck
GOZZ.

Title: Re: Interesting squeak / squeal :-( 24v Estate
Post by Jonnycab on Jan 3^rd, 2009, 1:29am

If it is the bearing & it is sqealing like a little pig, then chances are the hub is now shot as well ;).....Sqealing means the bad bearing is getting red hot & may be grinding away at the hub :)

Title: Re: Interesting squeak / squeal :-( 24v Estate
Post by gozz on Jan 3^rd, 2009, 9:47am

A fairly standard situation I have found :(
GOZZ.

Title: Re: Interesting squeak / squeal :-( 24v Estate
Post by Snoopy on Jan 3^rd, 2009, 4:04pm

I Agree that's why I had a spare in the garage, Think I might still have it. I will have to look it.

Title: Re: Interesting squeak / squeal :-( 24v Estate
Post by Thunderchild on Jan 6^th, 2009, 1:25pm

One way to check if it's the rear wheel bearings is when you hear the squeal, pull the hand brake on gently. If the squeal stops then it's definitely the wheel bearing. If not start looking at the brake pads.

HTH

Tc

Title: Re: Interesting squeak / squeal :-( 24v Estate
Post by teaboyterry on Jan 6^th, 2009, 8:52pm

I had the same squeeling sound recently (last week) which developed into a loud whine and knocking noise when driving. Took car to garage and it was found that the locking nut had become loose. They retightened the nut and locked it and now alls well again.
Hope this helps

Title: Re: Interesting squeak / squeal :-( 24v Estate
Post by mindofitsown on Jan 7^th, 2009, 11:56am

Hi teaboyterry, hate to be cynical but I had exactly what you described 4 years ago (as have many others in this forum) and merely re-tightening the nut may not be the end of your saga. Firstly, in my experience, once the nut becomes loosened it tends to happen again and again. Secondly, driving about with the nut loose may well have damaged the bearings/hub but even if not there is an even greater chance that the grease seals are damaged and then its just a question of time.

Title: Re: Interesting squeak / squeal :-( 24v Estate
Post by teaboyterry on Jan 7^th, 2009, 8:04pm

Hi Mindofitsown, the reason i took it to the garage was because i had this bearing replaced for the M.O.T. in August last year, so it was, and still is, under warranty. I did question them about just tightening the nut and they assured me that they had checked the bearing and it was ok.
I will keep a close eye on it but it does seem ok at the moment.
Thanks for your concern.

Title: Re: Interesting squeak / squeal :-( 24v Estate
Post by Tim_Lusername on Jan 12^th, 2009, 8:49pm

Replaced the hub/bearings with a second hand unit that I knew was good and problem solved :-)

Thank you all for your help

Tim

Title: Re: Interesting squeak / squeal :-( 24v Estate
Post by Simmo on Jan 12^th, 2009, 9:11pm

Just remember to re-check the torque 200ft/lbs after a few miles to ensure it has not worked loose. It does happen.

Title: Re: Interesting squeak / squeal :-( 24v Estate
Post by Tim_Lusername on Jan 12^th, 2009, 9:21pm

OK thanks - it was torqued properly so I'm glad you mentioned it as I would have left it alone :-o

I've probably done 20 miles in it since, will that be enough do you think?

Title: Re: Interesting squeak / squeal :-( 24v Estate
Post by Tim_Lusername on Jan 12^th, 2009, 9:23pm

Opps - just had a thought and checked this http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/rhubs.htm and it mentions 200ft/lbs which is the value I would have used.
Is that incorrect???

Title: Re: Interesting squeak / squeal :-( 24v Estate
Post by gozz on Jan 12^th, 2009, 10:11pm

Tim.
200 is correct.
GOZZ.

Title: Re: Interesting squeak / squeal :-( 24v Estate
Post by Tim_Lusername on Jan 13^th, 2009, 9:00am

Thanks Gozz

Title: Re: Interesting squeak / squeal :-( 24v Estate
Post by Snoopy on Jan 13^th, 2009, 3:47pm

I hope you used a STRONG thread lock as well , the N/S one has been knw to come undone again , even at that torque setting!

I know, at my cost!

Title: Re: Interesting squeak / squeal :-( 24v Estate
Post by Simmo on Jan 14^th, 2009, 8:35am

Tim, Sorry, post ammended. As Snoopy says italso happened to me but luckily I was having a tyre checked and the lad noticed movement and sure enough the nut had come loose. :)

Title: Re: Interesting squeak / squeal :-( 24v Estate
Post by Tim_Lusername on Jan 14^th, 2009, 9:05am

No worries Simmo although I did have a "moment" when I thought I was driving round with the thing 20% under torqued :-)

Snoopy, I didn't use any thread lock as I don't think it was mentioned in the hub web page I linked to above.
Is this something I can leave till the weekend (I have a round trip to work of 9 miles-ish) or should I bite the bullet and rectify this straight away - kinda moot point at the moment as I'm just about to drive to work with my fingers crossed :-\

Cheers

Tim

Title: Re: Interesting squeak / squeal :-( 24v Estate
Post by Snoopy on Jan 14^th, 2009, 9:18am

I only found out that the use of strong thread lock was needed AFTER I had to replace the Nearside wheel bearing AGAIN . I found that the axle nut can loosen with braking etc on the n/s . as the nuts that Ford use are NOT left and Right handed, and as a result the n/s one can loosen. a few drops of thread lock cures the problem, or so I found.
I wasn't apparent for a few days though. worth keeping an eye on IMHO.

Title: Re: Interesting squeak / squeal :-( 24v Estate
Post by Tim_Lusername on Jan 17^th, 2009, 2:44pm

Sorry to drag this up again but I just remembered something. There was no thread lock on the 32mm nuts that I took off either car. There was plenty of thread lock on the smaller bolts that hold the hub onto the suspension arm but that was it???

Title: Re: Interesting squeak / squeal :-( 24v Estate
Post by gozz on Jan 17^th, 2009, 4:34pm

Tim.
That's the hub CARRIER.
GOZZ.

Title: Re: Interesting squeak / squeal :-( 24v Estate
Post by Snoopy on Jan 17^th, 2009, 5:00pm

OK Ignore it at your own risk!!!.. I was only telling you what had happened to ME personally and others after changing the N/S wheel bearing, and trying to save you the hassle of another failure.
It does not affect the o/Side one as that tends to tighten on rotation !

Title: Re: Interesting squeak / squeal :-( 24v Estate
Post by mindofitsown on Jan 18^th, 2009, 8:17pm

Some irony here because I have had endless problems wih the o/s bearing and no problems with n/s in over 80k miles. Rubbish design.

Title: Re: Interesting squeak / squeal :-( 24v Estate
Post by Jonnycab on Jan 18^th, 2009, 11:43pm

A good tip I reckon ;).....when doing a N/S bearing & torquing it up properly (even when using threadlock), once it's torqued up it may be a good idea (as Ford did) to mark the tightened nut & thread with a splodge of paint.

If the nut moves then the 2 painted surfaces won't match up anymore & then you'll know for sure that the nut has moved ;)