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        General >> Problems >> difficult cold starting scorpio
        
(Message started by: MARK_HARLOCK on Mar 5^th, 2009, 12:54pm)

Title: difficult cold starting scorpio
Post by MARK_HARLOCK on Mar 5^th, 2009, 12:54pm

Hi Everyone

Im a new member, My name is Mark. I am most impressed with the Scorpio site and have found it to be very helpful. I will be donating a sum shortly

I have recently aquired a Scorpio estate 2.3,Ultima 1998 S reg. Its a great looking car. I bought it for the huge load area it has.

The scorpio has very recently had a new headgasket, brand new from Ford inlet manifold, new thermostat. New crank sensor, new battery.

The scorpio basically runs very well and everything seems to work well, but I do find it difficult to start when its cold, you have to keep pumping the throttle, it will then fire up after several turns of the engine. No fault codes found when scanned. Im thinking a fuel problem. Poss fuel pressure reg?? I have a used one to try, due to a new one not being readily available locally. Has anyone got any Ideas??

Any thoughts/advice would be very much appriecited.

Title: Re: difficult cold starting scorpio
Post by scorpio_man on Mar 5^th, 2009, 1:08pm

hi there

have you done the basic checks? sparkplug gaps/condition, air/vac leaks, etc.

hth

Title: Re: difficult cold starting scorpio
Post by Jonnycab on Mar 5^th, 2009, 2:04pm

A faulty fuel pressure regulator can be known to cause this problem when engine is both hot or cold. I once had the same problem, but only when the engine was hot & that was down to the fuel pressure regulator :)

Title: Re: difficult cold starting scorpio
Post by gozz on Mar 5^th, 2009, 7:48pm

Mark.
No amount of throttle pumping will make any difference to a car with fuel injection,however,if excess fuel is being injected,holding the accelerator to the floor may well clear it out.
GOZZ.

Title: Re: difficult cold starting scorpio
Post by MARK_HARLOCK on Mar 5^th, 2009, 10:48pm

Many thanks for your thoughts chaps. All the basic checks have been done. Its now at my mates garage for him to look at. Will post the outcome in due course.

Title: Re: difficult cold starting scorpio
Post by Snoopy on Mar 7^th, 2009, 7:13am

I would suspect coils and/or plugs and leads if it difficult to start first thing .

Difficult starting when HOT is as JC states most likely down to faulty fuel regulator.

Title: Re: difficult cold starting scorpio
Post by Nunnspoet on Mar 7^th, 2009, 7:50am

My 2.9 12 valve hates cold weather, has done since I bought her 3 and a half years ago. She lives outside and playes up every time we get a cold spell otherwise she is a great car and performs perfectly. I have no idea what this moodiness is about but I stopped worrying about it about 2 years ago. I would still llike to cure this though.

Mike N

Title: Re: difficult cold starting scorpio
Post by Snoopy on Mar 7^th, 2009, 9:20am

Mike N. Difficult starting on the 12v is IMHO an easier one to cure. I had it on my 12v on occasions when it was outside in the damp and cold . My cure was a compete clean of all the High Voltage system and replace the leads and distributor cap and rotor arm at regular intervals... Try starting at night in the cold and looking under the bonnet . It is quite usual to see the cause if its High Voltage. A spray of WD 40 or similar water repellent spray helps for a short time . Please remember that the 12v still uses "old" technology for generating an ignition source. I did also think at one time of replacing the coil but cleaning cured the problem

Title: Re: difficult cold starting scorpio
Post by MARK_HARLOCK on Mar 7^th, 2009, 1:42pm

Thanks again chaps. willl replace plugs leads etc in due course, will post the outcome.

Title: Re: difficult cold starting scorpio
Post by Nunnspoet on Mar 9^th, 2009, 9:07am

:-[ Talk about putting ones foot in ones mouth. Having uttered my words of wisdom I decided to wash her. Well she did not want to start and then she fired up ok., moved her a few fee and gave her a good wash with the engine ticking over switched off , gave her a shammy off and moved her to her original place. No probs at all. Next a.m. I had a look in the boot to see if there had been any ingress of water after overnight storm, nope but lots of water coming out of the boot light cluster which is usual so I gave the boot a harder than usual slam closed, twice in fact. jumped in and turned the engine. My Bty is in excellent nick as proven by the ease with which the engine spun and spun, but no ignition. No smell of fuel either so I am going to investigate the cut off switch today, hopefully. Tried to reset it yesteday but no difference. So there I am :-[. I will report later and thank you very much for all your advice Snoopy 8)

Mike N

Title: Re: difficult cold starting scorpio
Post by Nunnspoet on Mar 9^th, 2009, 3:12pm

:) :) :D All done, she's back on top form!! It was the fuel cut off switch in the Boot. I removed the cover, four Phillips screws, removed the unit, 2 Phillips screws and unplugged the unit, gave it a good squirt of Electric Contact Cleaner shook it all about, you can feel the ball bearing or whatever it is that makes the internal connections moving about, let it drain, re-set the red button by pressing it in, re connected the plug screwed the unit to the car, turned the iqnition and up she fired 8)

With hindsight maybe I should have done this well before now.

I hope this helps

Mike N

Title: Re: difficult cold starting scorpio
Post by Snoopy on Mar 10^th, 2009, 8:13am

Thats what happens when you slam the boot shut ! Getting it s own back for the mistreatment ;D ;D ;D

Title: Re: difficult cold starting scorpio
Post by Nunnspoet on Mar 11^th, 2009, 8:35am

:-[ Foot in mouth again :'( Thought, "I'll take her for a spin today :)" Engine just spun over as before :o.. So I walked away in a huff. That was yesterday, so when I get 5mins I'll swap the cut out switch with one that I know works and report back folks.
Never a dull moment
Mike N

Title: Re: difficult cold starting scorpio
Post by Jonnycab on Mar 11^th, 2009, 9:17am

Mike N, have you checked out the fuel pump relay ? :)

Title: Re: difficult cold starting scorpio
Post by Waglet on Mar 11^th, 2009, 11:04am

This sounds like the problem I have. Can you hear the fuel pump 'kick in'? The diagnosis on mine is unknown (wating Ford man to have a look at it next week). Unless you get "a real fix" and a definate part that is faulty you can never trust it can you? I've had 3 failures so far and the local garage has got it started but no "fix". I work for for BT and we call this "right when tested". No good to man or beast. The other terminology is FNF. (Fault not found) Worse than RWT (right when tested). FNF means there was a fault but it went away and we can't find what's wrong!

Title: Re: difficult cold starting scorpio
Post by Nunnspoet on Mar 11^th, 2009, 6:38pm

I went to look around at things; Removed the Fuel cut off valve gave it a squirt of Contact cleaner, shook it all about, reconnected everything again to no avail. This was at dusk but I've discovered that the PATS light stays on on top of the Dashboard so I have completley disconnected the Bty and when about half an hour is up I will reconnect and see what happens

Title: Re: difficult cold starting scorpio
Post by Nunnspoet on Mar 11^th, 2009, 7:53pm

:-/ No difference - No loose sparks Packed up for the night. Back to the Drawing Board and all the points raised by The Brains Trust. That's you folks
Mike N

Title: Re: difficult cold starting scorpio
Post by Nunnspoet on Mar 14^th, 2009, 8:43am

Yesterday I swapped over the Fuel Cut off Switch - No difference.
Swapped the Fuel Pump Relay - No difference.
Removed the Fuel Pipe from the top of the Fuel Pressure Regulator and spun the Engine - TAKE ALL PRECAUTIONS WHEN DOING THIS AS PETROL ONLY TAKES A SPARK TO IGNITE - some fuel came out of th Regulator and the engine coughed, I left her for about 10 mins and did the same with the same results.
Reconnected the fuel line and turned the Engine. She starded up like there had been nothing wrong.
A few mins. later I was talking with my neighbour who knows nothing about "cars" ::). He asked if I had run the Petrol very low recently? No, but my son had my car up in York for a couple of weeks and told us how he had just managed to get to Tesco's petrol Station with the sound of the pump sucking out the last drops of Petrol :-X Clogged Fuel Filter??? I will renew it and see.
I'm still undecided. :-/
She started this am without a hesitation

Mike N

Title: Re: difficult cold starting scorpio
Post by Tompion on Mar 14^th, 2009, 10:07am

on 03/14/09 at 08:43:46, Nunnspoet wrote:

Removed the Fuel Pipe from the top of the Fuel Pressure Regulator and spun the Engine Mike N

I don’t have a 12v does it have a direct connection (that’s removable) to the top of the Fuel Pressure Regulator?

Speaking for the 16v there isn’t a direct removable connection on the regulator apart from the vacuum pipe – which shouldn’t have petrol coming from it.
If you removed the feed line you should get petrol squirt out of it if the engine has been run recently as it should be under pressure.
If you remove the return line some petrol may come out – removing the filler cap may stop it if the tank has pressurised.
I don’t need to run the engine with a pipe off, I just need to turn the ignition on and the pump will run for 10 seconds & a significant amount of petrol will squirt out.

Dave

Title: Re: difficult cold starting scorpio
Post by Nunnspoet on Mar 14^th, 2009, 6:51pm

:-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ Just checked and the fuel line I removed is the Fuel return line that sits on top of the Fuel Pressure Regulator. Sorry folks

Mike N

Title: Re: difficult cold starting scorpio
Post by Tompion on Mar 14^th, 2009, 7:21pm

If it's the return line you should get petrol running out of the regulator with the engine running - once the rail is up to 3 bar any excess pumps back to the tank.
If you just turn the ignition on & off a few times without starting, it should pump a fair amount out.
(not sure if I was right earlier about it running for 10 seconds at ignition on (may be a shorter time, brain getting rusty) but you should hear the pump run a few seconds.

Title: Re: difficult cold starting scorpio
Post by Nunnspoet on Mar 15^th, 2009, 9:03am

:) Thanks Dave. Its all good information even though my technical knowledge is very limited, practically non existant, it is so reasuring to know that there are people out there who are pleased to point us in the right direction ;)
Well, I started her up last night - no problems and the dash Led did what it is supposed to do ;D
Started her up just now after a damp night and some condensation around the engine bay - perfect 8).
But I will change the Fuel filter and check everything as best I can before I am completly satisfied.

Many thanks to everybody :)

Mike N

Title: Re: difficult cold starting scorpio
Post by rich1 on Mar 15^th, 2009, 10:37pm

on 03/10/09 at 08:13:03, Snoopy wrote:

Thats what happens when you slam the boot shut ! Getting it s own back for the mistreatment ;D ;D ;D

it does my head in when people slam doors , my wife is the main culprit in my house , i swear she slams the passenger door so hard that the drivers door opens ;D

Title: Re: difficult cold starting scorpio
Post by gozz on Mar 15^th, 2009, 11:59pm

Rich.
On many occasions,after I have quietly closed the rear doors on my funeral cars,people open them again and slam them hard,presumably thinking that because a mighty noise was not made,the door was not shut ! this annoys me,especially when I have taken a lot of trouble to adjust the latches so that slamming is not required,no doubt you suffer similar abuse on the cab !!
GOZZ.

Title: Re: difficult cold starting scorpio
Post by rich1 on Mar 16^th, 2009, 1:45am

gozz how right you are , im even thinking about putting a sign up saying "dont slam the doors", but im sure the bright sparks at the carraige office would have something to say about it,
mind you you should see some of the passengers trying to open the doors , anyone would think its something off the krpton factor :)
strange animal the public ;D

Title: Re: difficult cold starting scorpio
Post by MARK_HARLOCK on Mar 20^th, 2009, 11:13pm

Fitted a good used fuel pressure reg. Scorpio now starts as it should, At last. :)