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Title: ABS and traction control lights came on! Post by Magnusf on May 3rd, 2009, 1:42pm Hi fellows! Greetings from Sweden. Haven't been here for quite a while. My 1996 24v estate has been asleep in the garage all winter, and worked fine about a month ago when i took it for a short test run. After that the two coolant hoses that connects to the heater matrix have been replaces, nothing else touched. Now it's time for MOT (tuesday morning), put on new rear tyres, took it for a spin and now at about 15 mph the ABS and traction control light come on! So far I've determined that the three fuses that seem related to ABS are ok. Where do I go from here? Advice please? / Magnus |
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Title: Re: ABS and traction control lights came on! Post by Snoopy on May 3rd, 2009, 2:17pm First thing make sure the tyres are inflated to the same pressure... then check the ABS sensor ring on each of the hubs. Might have picked up a bit of debris which can cause the same fault. Then check the connectors ..... the ones for the front wing are good suspects as they are exposed to the weather and can get dirty.. I used to clean mine every 6months and then seal the plugs with silicone grease. The back ones are under the rear seat so should not give a problem but stil worth checking. you can also put the ohms meter on them see that they are working OK .. Others with more knowledge than me will I am sure be along soon Good luck. |
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Title: Re: ABS and traction control lights came on! Post by Highlander on May 3rd, 2009, 8:57pm yep i'd give the sensors/rings a clean, they do seem gather dirt/rust when they sit a while |
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Title: Re: ABS and traction control lights came on! Post by Magnusf on May 6th, 2009, 11:33pm Hello! As I was away monday evening doing final examn for Cisco CCNA my dad came by our place and cleaned both rear ABS sensors. And the problem was solved! Can't thank him enough! And many thanks to you guys for great advice! The Scorpio sailed through MOT tuesday morning without a single complaint. I'm very pleased. Cheers! / Magnus |
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Title: Re: ABS and traction control lights came on! Post by Highlander on May 7th, 2009, 10:35am Good job :) |
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Title: Re: ABS and traction control lights came on! Post by NiceMan on May 7th, 2009, 1:40pm Good =) Back sensor need sometime clean and it easy clean when change bads or tires, take 5-10min. |
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Title: Re: ABS and traction control lights came on! Post by Ivan Pevnitsky on Jun 20th, 2009, 11:06pm I have ABS light on. The codes are: C1155 Speed Wheel Sensor LF Input Circuit Failure C1233 Speed Wheel LF Input Signal Missing (PS: form several days age I also have right fornt ABS sensor destroyed, but this is another story) Today I disconnected the ABS sensor from connector and measured the resistance - it showed me 1,081 kOhm. Does it mean that sensor works? Is there wire break somewhere or could it be caused by a dirt somewhere inside the sensor (i mean the sensor's inner side) PS: Coud someone, please say me the exact dimensions of Front ABS sensor cylinder? I need at least the diameter and maximal depth. but it would be very good if you give all dimesions. I'm going to make ABS sensor myself. |
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Title: Re: ABS and traction control lights came on! Post by Tompion on Jun 21st, 2009, 3:13am I think C1155 is likely to be a poor connection – failing basic start up continuity test. C1233 is failing the rolling test – but with the C1155 it will fail. The resistance is OK, but only a very basic test. Best to check resistance at the plug on the ABS controller, so you test all the wires & plug. Which version of ABS do you have? The codes will stay in memory with the later controllers unless you clear them – so possibly old codes. Dimensions (slight variation between 2 sensors I have): Length from mounting face to sensor face 27.5mm Diameter (sensor 1) 17.63mm (with 6 tiny dimples around the circumference approx 7mm from the sensor face that effectively bring it up to 17.8mm) Diameter (sensor 2) 17.8mm (the tiny dimples have squashed down to 17.8mm) So I assume the bore is 17.8mm & the dimples take up any slack. The part no’s on them are: 92GB2B372CA & 92GB2B372AA |
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Title: Re: ABS and traction control lights came on! Post by Ivan Pevnitsky on Jun 21st, 2009, 6:26am Thanks a lot! Do I correctly understand the dimensions you said? http://ipevnitsky.fromru.su/ABS_dimensions.PNG I have ABS without TCS, so i suppose it's MK 20-I Unfortunately i cannot diagnose ABS codes myself. My prog (ScanXL) can check only main system and reset errors only for main system, but when i connect to ABS it says all is ok. But other special diagnostic tools in services show the errors. I'm not sure if these codes are old or not. Do you know if I can disconnect ABS module plug where goes wires from sensors without disconnecting the battery? Will it cause any errors (all sensor fail or something like that) or ABS checking not works untill i turn on the ignition? |
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Title: Re: ABS and traction control lights came on! Post by wojtekor on Jun 21st, 2009, 8:44am Ivan sierra uses the same abs sensors as Scorpio and they are very easy to dismantle apparently Ford has decided to change a working and tested design of the sensors mounting in the front of the Scorpio and screw it up ;) It might be easier to get the sensors from Sierra and replace yours... crap, mine ABS light came on this morning... :/ the car was sitting around for a few days so i suspect it got dirty... anyway Stuart we've got a problem ;) |
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Title: Re: ABS and traction control lights came on! Post by Ivan Pevnitsky on Jun 21st, 2009, 9:21am Do you know the exact make of Sierra? Does front ABS sensor from Sierra' 92 fit the scorpio? Any changes i have to make before mount? |
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Title: Re: ABS and traction control lights came on! Post by wojtekor on Jun 21st, 2009, 9:28am afaik no changes are required they fir right on. sierra 92 should be fine :) |
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Title: Re: ABS and traction control lights came on! Post by Ivan Pevnitsky on Jun 21st, 2009, 9:33am Thanks a lot! Found used one here for 10 pounds. I'm buing it within an hour and see if it's ok ;) |
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Title: Re: ABS and traction control lights came on! Post by wojtekor on Jun 21st, 2009, 9:38am should work like a treat. i myself came across this info a few min ago ;) while looking for a solution to my abs light issue on the polish forum. good luck m8! 8) |
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Title: Re: ABS and traction control lights came on! Post by wojtekor on Jun 21st, 2009, 9:53am Quote:
dunno... :/ took a look on the polish forum and couldn't find any info about the part no. i've asked and been told that it shouldn't make any difference apart from front/rear. anyway if you can wait, i'll try to reach a guy who actually did this and ask... |
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Title: Re: ABS and traction control lights came on! Post by Ivan Pevnitsky on Jun 21st, 2009, 10:01am Oh, thank you! I don't think I have time to wait because I must got out 20 minutes ago =))) But i'm here 10 minutes more :) |
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Title: Re: ABS and traction control lights came on! Post by wojtekor on Jun 21st, 2009, 10:28am come back later ;D |
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Title: Re: ABS and traction control lights came on! Post by Tompion on Jun 21st, 2009, 1:12pm on 06/21/09 at 06:26:30, Ivan Pevnitsky wrote:
Yes that’s correct for the measurements. If you have the later ABS the controller is at the front of the unit & is held by 4 bolts (need a female torx socket). The earlier unit is located under the ABS & held with 2 screws. I don’t think the earlier ABS units retain the codes. The later units retain the codes, but if everything is OK the ABS will work. The problem being that you have no way of knowing if the codes are current unless you clear them. So the best bet is to fix the known problem on right front ABS sensor & see if the ABS works. (I’ve done a lot of experimenting with the later MK20 ABS units & I’ve never found a code that has to be cleared for the ABS to work once the problems are fixed – the codes stay in memory but have no effect on a fully working system - but you do have to drive the car for most of the codes before the light goes out) I disconnect the ABS module plug without disconnecting the battery (ignition off), but note the heavy cables (30amp fuse) are permanently live. If you disconnect it with the ignition on you may get a low voltage code. If you google for 92GB2B372CA You’ll get some results, this appears to give a compatibility list: http://www.maxparts.ru/index.php?page=proizv.php&proizv_id=55&ga_id=412&page_no=1&art_id=1729109 |
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Title: Re: ABS and traction control lights came on! Post by Ivan Pevnitsky on Jun 21st, 2009, 1:28pm Will the light on dashboard go away once the sensor signals OK (while error codes might stay in memory)? I've baught one from Sierra today. Now replacing the connector (the dimension and resistance (1.081 kOhm) are the same). But to fit RF sensor into the hole i need to do some work (there's a "caviar" that prevents it from getting in). I think the dirt might be also the reason of LF sensor. One question: When I turn on the ignition, ABS light stays on. indicating there's a failure while no wheel movement yet. So ABS controller tests the presence of LF sensor. If LF sensor has the resistance it should report "OK" until there's no wire break. But could be the dirt also the reason of ABS startup test fail? |
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Title: Re: ABS and traction control lights came on! Post by Tompion on Jun 21st, 2009, 2:09pm If it's the later type of controller the light will stay on until the car is driven - unless you have cleared the codes (assuming the problems have been fixed). To pass the ignition on test it doesn't make any difference what the resistance is as long as it's not very high (it passed with a dead short when I tested it) - but the light won't go out with any stored codes (MK20 controller). Dirt on the sensor/sensor ring won't cause the start up failure - if there are no stored codes. |
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Title: Re: ABS and traction control lights came on! Post by Ivan Pevnitsky on Jun 21st, 2009, 2:28pm Is there any way to clear ABS codes without OBD? I have a prog but it can only connect to powertrain module and read it's codes. But cannot connect to ABS module corectly. |
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Title: Re: ABS and traction control lights came on! Post by Tompion on Jun 21st, 2009, 2:29pm on 06/21/09 at 14:09:30, Tompion wrote:
I have just tested this on the car & I can confirm the light goes out with a rear sensor disconnected and a wire bridging the connector (no resistance). |
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Title: Re: ABS and traction control lights came on! Post by Tompion on Jun 21st, 2009, 2:33pm on 06/21/09 at 14:28:29, Ivan Pevnitsky wrote:
Not that I'm aware off. |
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Title: Re: ABS and traction control lights came on! Post by Ivan Pevnitsky on Jun 21st, 2009, 2:45pm I suppose the light will show up if you just disconnect the sensor (without shorting the wires). But will it then go out if you connect sensor again? |
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Title: Re: ABS and traction control lights came on! Post by Tompion on Jun 21st, 2009, 3:05pm If I remember correctly with that particular code if it hasn't been driven the light goes out after you reconnect it (ignition off), but not if there are other stored codes. |
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Title: Re: ABS and traction control lights came on! Post by Ivan Pevnitsky on Jun 21st, 2009, 4:30pm I set up "new" right-front (RF) ABS sensor. The unplugged ABS multiplug that is connected to ABS module and tested resistance on all hole-pins that connect to sensors. All 4 sensors showed 1.08 KOhm (on my MK 20-I - pins 22-21 - LR, 18-17 - LF, 3-4 - RF and 6-7 RR). So all sensors are connected to ABS module. The light is still on. Unfortunately I cannot nether test error codes nor reset it right now. |
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Title: Re: ABS and traction control lights came on! Post by Tompion on Jun 22nd, 2009, 1:00am http://i.imgur.com/bqJG3Bs.jpg Clean the sensor rings & look for magnetic particles sticking to the sensor faces. If you want to test the signal from the sensors you could experiment with audio software. Below is the waveform I got by plugging a sensor into the mic socket of the laptop & driving the car. I used some freebie software called wavepad. You could probably record to an mp3 device & transfer it to your PC. I’ve never got past the initial testing of it as I haven’t needed it, but it should show any problems with the sensors/sensor rings. http://i.imgur.com/PrXDFzN.jpg |
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Title: Re: ABS and traction control lights came on! Post by Simmo on Jun 22nd, 2009, 7:21am Dave !!. What will you 'invent' next !! ::) ::) ::) ::). You never fail to amaze me. ;D |
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Title: Re: ABS and traction control lights came on! Post by Ivan Pevnitsky on Jun 22nd, 2009, 9:07am He-he! You should know that it won't damage mic in ;) It if you sure - very good solution :)) Where did you get the plug pinning? I had to make a photo of a socket on ABS module and to see the pin numbers, because there're no pinning on plug |
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Title: Re: ABS and traction control lights came on! Post by Tompion on Jun 22nd, 2009, 11:02am Yes, should of given warning that you connect it up at your own risk :( I had to turn the volume very low on my laptop, so putting a volume control into the lead would probably be sensible. On the module the pin numbers are next the pins – but hard to see with it on the car. On the plug the pin numbers are at the back where the wires go in - you have to remove the cable tie & slide the cover off. Wiring diagrams posted by Snoopy here: http://cid-eb36f845ea9b8fb6.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/WIRING%20DIAGRAMS Check the pins on the module, I’ve heard of them breaking, also the plastic pin that goes into the hole above pin 7 – there’s a contact in the plug that grounds the warning light when the plug is removed, if it breaks the light will stay on. |
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Title: Re: ABS and traction control lights came on! Post by Ivan Pevnitsky on Jun 22nd, 2009, 12:48pm Anyway i'm interested in what doc the picture of pinning from :))) |
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Title: Re: ABS and traction control lights came on! Post by Tompion on Jun 22nd, 2009, 2:28pm I took a picture of the plug & created the line drawing from it in Corel Draw. |
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Title: Re: ABS and traction control lights came on! Post by Ivan Pevnitsky on Jun 24th, 2009, 10:22pm Today measured the voltage. My LF sensor gives amplitude about 1V, but RF sensor (that is from ford Sierra) barely gives 0.1 V :( I suppose there's too much space between sensor and the ring |
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Title: Re: ABS and traction control lights came on! Post by Tompion on Jun 25th, 2009, 12:42am I don't think the gap is given on the site, but I've seen between .8 & 1.2mm given for other vehicles – so about 1mm is probably OK. |
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Title: Re: ABS and traction control lights came on! Post by Ivan Pevnitsky on Jun 26th, 2009, 11:34am Today I was given the device Ultrascan Pro (http://www.infocar.us/Hanatech-Ultrascan-Pro-Scan-Tool-p/han-pro.htm). Is showed something strange - when i connected to ABS it showed me codes for a tenth of a second and then showed "No trouble codes". There was also an option "On-Demand test" that when being ran SOMETIMES showed me "C1095 Pump motor circuit failure", but in most cases - NO TROUBLE CODES DETECTED (just made diagnostics one after another) There's also an optino "Read current data" that showed me that I have 5 DTCs on module. It seems there's no functionality for resetting codes. After experimenting of selecting different vehicles i returned the device and went for my own needs. But on the way back I noticed that there's no ABS light!!! "WOW"- I thought. I preseed break pedal - and it worked!. But after a little more driving (without pressing break) the light came up again. Unfortunately i couldn't test it again as I returned the device to serviceman. But I suppose it's a RF sensor from Sierra which gives too weak signal. I'm going to ajust the gap between sensor and the ring tomorrow. Will let you know. One miore question: Does Vehicle Explorer provides the functionality for clearing ABS codes? Could anyone check it, please? There're guys here with VE, but it costs about 20 pounds, so I just don't want to spent money for nothing. |
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Title: Re: ABS and traction control lights came on! Post by Tompion on Jun 27th, 2009, 12:25am If it's a lead from here: http://www.obd-2.com/ It depends what lead (the basic lead cannot read ABS), but if it can read ABS it can clear the codes. C1095 is quite often a problem with the controller: http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/abscontrollerrepair.htm Assuming the light is out, too big an air gap will often give you a juddering at very low speed (ABS cutting in) just before stopping & the light may come back on. |
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Title: Re: ABS and traction control lights came on! Post by Ivan Pevnitsky on Jun 27th, 2009, 9:59am Mesaured inductance on both front sensors - both have about 732 mH. So they both seemed to work. Mesaured the gap. LF has about 0.8-1.2 mm (eye-measured), but RF (one from Sierra) has a gap around 3 mm!!! But how??? The sierra's length is 27.5 mm (you said it's scopio's size), and it fits by all it's depth and still has 3 mm gap! I measured the depth from outside to the ABS ring - it's 30.5 mm (so that's the gap - 30.5 - 27.5 = 3 mm) I cannot measure LF sensor depth as it deadly sits there. |
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Title: Re: ABS and traction control lights came on! Post by Ivan Pevnitsky on Jun 27th, 2009, 12:08pm Well, finally I milled off about 1.5 mm from sensor's mounting pad. So now the depth and therefoe the signal is OK. But the lihgt is still on. I'm going to try to reset it today. |
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Title: Re: ABS and traction control lights came on! Post by Ivan Pevnitsky on Jun 27th, 2009, 5:32pm Cool! I've got ABS working! ::) But there's still some problem. I test ABS with several hard breaking actions. The went to home. And after 20 minutes of driving the light came up again! I stopped, restart the car (turned the ignition off an on). ABS light stayed on, but after mooving a couple of minutes it disappeared! Then somehow appeared again. I'm stuck! |
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Title: Re: ABS and traction control lights came on! Post by wojtekor on Jun 27th, 2009, 5:42pm Sounds like the ABS module is dying... |
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Title: Re: ABS and traction control lights came on! Post by Tompion on Jun 28th, 2009, 12:42am Yes, does sound typical of the early stages of the solder joints failing on the motor pins in the ABS controller. You can test one of the motor pins, but not very conclusive with an intermittent fault although sometimes you can get it to make & break by waggling the round pin quite firmly with the meter probe. http://i.imgur.com/L9kdsFX.jpg |
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Title: Re: ABS and traction control lights came on! Post by Ivan Pevnitsky on Jun 29th, 2009, 2:29pm It seems some of sensors doesn't work properly. Because there're situations when i smoothly press break pedal ABS works (susually after such situaion the lamp comes on). The lamp is on until I restrt the car and drive several hundred meters. I supposse it can be a dirt on RF sensor (sierra's), because it have unusual cap (seems to be a hand made by previous owner) Look at it (click on the picture if you need higher resolution :)) http://ipevnitsky.fromru.su/ABS/ABS_RF_cap_s.jpg (http://ipevnitsky.fromru.su/ABS/ABS_RF_cap.jpg) It have a gap for seensor, because it fits in a free area around the ABS rackwheel. I think the dirt gets there after several kilometers (we have dirty roads here) The original one from LF wheel: http://ipevnitsky.fromru.su/ABS/ABS_LF_cap_s.jpg (http://ipevnitsky.fromru.su/ABS/ABS_LF_cap.jpg) And here the sensors Right Fornt http://ipevnitsky.fromru.su/ABS/ABS_RF_sensor_s.jpg (http://ipevnitsky.fromru.su/ABS/ABS_RF_sensor.jpg) Left front http://ipevnitsky.fromru.su/ABS/ABS_LF_sensor_s.jpg (http://ipevnitsky.fromru.su/ABS/ABS_LF_sensor.jpg) I sprayed both with WD40 (it's hard to get there), but i can't say it solved the problem |
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Title: Re: ABS and traction control lights came on! Post by wojtekor on Jun 29th, 2009, 5:36pm on 06/29/09 at 14:29:34, Ivan Pevnitsky wrote:
This is a typical ABS module failure syndrome. At some point the light just won't come off. |
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Title: Re: ABS and traction control lights came on! Post by Ivan Pevnitsky on Jun 29th, 2009, 6:10pm Anyway, the failure is caused by something. And this something might be fixed ;) |
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Title: Re: ABS and traction control lights came on! Post by Tompion on Jun 29th, 2009, 6:37pm Looks like the right sensor needs cleaning between the two parts that stick out from the face. Try something like brass wire to scrape it away. Chances are it's magnetic particles and best if you can blow it away with an airline or pump. |
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Title: Re: ABS and traction control lights came on! Post by Ivan Pevnitsky on Jun 30th, 2009, 12:01pm Sure, but once cleaned it will be dirty again because of the bad cap (see first picture) |
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Title: Re: ABS and traction control lights came on! Post by Tompion on Jun 30th, 2009, 12:30pm It’s magnetic particles that are the main problem rather than dirt. Can’t see a lot of difference with the caps, if anything the Sierra one has the potential to be better as it’s fixed to the carrier. Seal around the cutaway for the sensor, more importantly you need to be sure water can drain out. The Scorpio one revolves with the hub & therefore has to have a clearance around it so it doesn’t rub on the carrier. I assume it relies on centrifugal force to throw the water/dirt off. |
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Title: Re: ABS and traction control lights came on! Post by Ivan Pevnitsky on Jun 30th, 2009, 1:00pm Under the dirt i mean mostly the rusty dust. The cap on RF: it's not the Sierra's cap. I don't know where this cap has been taken from. (well, it really could be the sierra's, ha-ha) The problem #1 with RF cap is the hole. When the cap is fitted in, there's a valuable hole left where some sh..t from the road can easilly get into. Problem #2 with RF cap - there're scratches on the internal side of the cap (you can see it on high-res picture) - I suppose because of the ABS ring scratches it when spinning. |
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Title: Re: ABS and traction control lights came on! Post by Ivan Pevnitsky on Jun 30th, 2009, 1:21pm What I want to do further is to measure signals from sensor when driving. I have a 2-channel USB oscilloscope, which has a capability of recording. So I can check if there're some signal/amplitude losses on one of the sensors. There's a little problem here: I cannot determine the moment when things go bad. When sensors are connected to ABS I can determine the moment by appearing ABS light or by working ABS when it's not needed. If I connect the scope, I'll have to diconnect sensors from ABS, so the light will be always ON. I can't drive looking st the laptop on passenger's seat and constantly checking the signal difference :D |
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Title: Re: ABS and traction control lights came on! Post by Ivan Pevnitsky on Jul 6th, 2009, 8:51pm Today measured the gaps: LF - 0.65 mm (original) RF - 0.95-1mm (1.5 mm milled off sierra's). But I don't think 0.3 mm makes big difference here. Will try to find a way of cleaning the ring's nest with petorl and high pressure air:)! |
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Title: Re: ABS and traction control lights came on! Post by wojtekor on Jul 6th, 2009, 9:15pm I'm telling you it's the abs module that is failing... |
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Title: Re: ABS and traction control lights came on! Post by NiceMan on Jul 6th, 2009, 10:07pm Yes... its normal at boc fail.... i change my cossy boc one time before allready.... |
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Title: Re: ABS and traction control lights came on! Post by Ivan Pevnitsky on Jul 6th, 2009, 11:04pm ohh. If only I could read the codes! :) But what fails in ABS module? motor, processor, solenoids... what? PS: and what is boc ;) |
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Title: Re: ABS and traction control lights came on! Post by wojtekor on Jul 6th, 2009, 11:15pm the module itself... it's pretty much unfixable and you can only replace it. it's always worth to replace the abs pump with it... |
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Title: Re: ABS and traction control lights came on! Post by NiceMan on Jul 7th, 2009, 5:28am on 07/06/09 at 23:04:48, Ivan Pevnitsky wrote:
Sorry meen Box =) And that Black box fail... I not know any who has motor or solenoid fails but soem who box stop works... |
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Title: Re: ABS and traction control lights came on! Post by Tompion on Jul 7th, 2009, 8:47am on 07/06/09 at 23:15:32, wojtekor wrote:
This isn't correct, they may be fixable, I have fixed 8 with a C1095 code. ------------------------ You said earlier you saw a code C1095 & I answered that with a link to the repair: on 06/26/09 at 11:34:37, Ivan Pevnitsky wrote:
on 06/27/09 at 00:25:55, Tompion wrote:
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Title: Re: ABS and traction control lights came on! Post by wojtekor on Jul 7th, 2009, 10:50am on 07/07/09 at 08:47:47, Tompion wrote:
Tompion from what I know 97% of them is technically impossible to fix. From what I've found on the polish forum only 3% can be fixed but it can be tricky and the effects are uncertain. The thing is that there were 2 [or more?] abs modules used and only those used towards the end of the production are fixable... As much as I don't like poles, I must admit that when it comes to finding cheap solutions for anything they are the best... And when they say that you can't salvage something that's probably the most true statement in the world }{ |
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Title: Re: ABS and traction control lights came on! Post by Tompion on Jul 7th, 2009, 12:29pm Of the 8 I've looked at with the C1095 code they all were fixed by soldering the pins. 100% success rate. One of the modules I fixed was the earlier type (admittedly not tested this one – but the solder to the pins was broken) & I have seen reports of these being fixed by soldering the pins. Can't speak for any other codes |
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Title: Re: ABS and traction control lights came on! Post by Ivan Pevnitsky on Jul 7th, 2009, 12:42pm 2Tompion: Well, I I wouldn't trust so to results of UltraScan, beacuse the device is not for scorpio, and codes are shown and then diasappered. I'd like to test it with VE, but can't for this moment 2wojtekor: What do you mean "unfixable". I didn't brake the ABS module but i'm sure there's no gum there, and all the board and elements are easy to access (I understand that it can be hard to fix processor with program, but other elements - can be replaced I think) I just don't won't to take the module off yet, because want be sure it's not the sensors :) |
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Title: Re: ABS and traction control lights came on! Post by pedropedro on Jul 7th, 2009, 6:12pm I dont see how one can say the abs unit is unfixable without stating specifically what was wrong to justify a replacement. I have repaired x3 sucessfully and I cant see that there is any justification in saying something just needs changing without finding out exactly why and what the fault is. I suspect that 97% of the failures relate to bad soldering internally on the pump connections discovered thanks to Tompion's resourcefullness Unless you can do a scan, which I did showing exactly where the faults lay, it is with the utmost of respect, not worth guessing |
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Title: Re: ABS and traction control lights came on! Post by Ivan Pevnitsky on Jul 27th, 2009, 12:18am First, thanks to you all for your advices! I have fixed my ABS at last, and the reason was, as Tompion said, broken soldering. The ABS module is held by 4 screws with star-heads. even though they seemed to be rusty the went out well. The black box where the circuit board is located has a cover that at the first look is held by four locking washers. http://ipevnitsky.fromru.su/ABS/Module/ABS_Module_closed_s.jpg (http://ipevnitsky.fromru.su/ABS/Module/ABS_Module_closed.jpg) But it's turned out that it's held by a germetic glue which made it hard to open the cover, so I had to apply some force to open it http://ipevnitsky.fromru.su/ABS/Module/ABS_Module_inside_overview_s.jpg (http://ipevnitsky.fromru.su/ABS/Module/ABS_Module_inside_overview.jpg) When you look down at the board from the top you may think that it looks fine. But look at it from another angle: you may see that on some pins (espesially those going to pump) the tin around them is raised a little: http://ipevnitsky.fromru.su/ABS/Module/ABS_Module_BrokenSoldering_s.jpg (http://ipevnitsky.fromru.su/ABS/Module/ABS_Module_BrokenSoldering.jpg) I had breaks on the pump pins and on some of connector pins. Even if you don't see it, there still might be a break. So I resoldered all the pins and covered them with a germetic mass (to avoid the moisture and condensate mahke hurt to pins and soldering) http://ipevnitsky.fromru.su/ABS/Module/ABS_Module_germetic_covering_s.jpg (http://ipevnitsky.fromru.su/ABS/Module/ABS_Module_germetic_covering.jpg) I also filled the perimeter with germetic when closing the cover. Fitted this all back, turned the ignition on, drove a little to make about 20 km/h - and voila! Goodbye to ABS light!!! 8) PS: the bad thing is that the hand-made cap on my right fornt wheel is lost, so the dirt or little pebble can damage the sensor if gets into. So I have to find a cap |
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Title: Re: ABS and traction control lights came on! Post by fredcogger on Jul 30th, 2009, 2:35pm I have the usual problem of the ABS light staying on. When I tried to remove the sensor to clean them as advised in previous posts, I couldn't get the sensor off. It appears to be secured with one bolt, which I removed, but it still seemed to be stuck fast. I tried gently levering with a screwdriver to no avail. Do I have to do anything other than remove the fixing bolt? Possibly tap the sensor gentlty with a hammer to free it? |
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Title: Re: ABS and traction control lights came on! Post by Ivan Pevnitsky on Jul 30th, 2009, 3:03pm I strongly suggest you not to remove the sensor until you sure it's not working. When the car is new - it's held by only the bolt. When the car is old - the sensor is mostly held by a rust. The sensor's fastening through which the bolt goes is made of cleavable material. And using screwdriver you'll just damage it. Test it first: Clean the sensor head so that there's no rust or metal pieces between magnets (you don't need it to get out of it's place. There's enough space between sensor and the ring to clean it when fitted) Conenct with ohmmeter and check te resistance. It should be about 1.0-1.5 kOhm (mine are 1.1) If you have an induction meter - you can measure it too. it should be about 730 mH (mine are 732 mH) You can use ascilloscope to check the wave signal from sensor when you spin the wheel (lift up a car, so the wheel is in the air, connect to sensor and spin the wheel with hand. Tha amplitude should be about 1 V) Also check that the signal is present on both connectors: first one near the wheel, and the second one - is that goes connects to ABS modulator (the pinning should be on 3-rd page of this discussion thread) As from my own recent experience - I should have listened to old forum people: they said the most common problem is a soldering break around the pins in ABS modulator. I didn't want to get there and tried to clean/fix sensor with no luck until i disassembled ABS modulator ;) PS: sorry for my english |
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Title: Re: ABS and traction control lights came on! Post by fredcogger on Jul 31st, 2009, 6:12pm Thanks for the advice Ivan. When you say you can clean the sensor when fitted how do you gain access? Do you have to remove the wheel and brake disc? |
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Title: Re: ABS and traction control lights came on! Post by Ivan Pevnitsky on Jul 31st, 2009, 6:34pm If you can lift up the car and stay under it - there's no need to remove the wheel. Even if you can't get under the car - there's still ability to clean the sensor without taking off the wheel. In this case you have to turn the steereng on maximum angle to the side where you want to clean the sensor: if you need to clean left sensor - then turn steering to left as masx as possible. Then it's enough space to push you hand between the wheel and the car to access the sensor ring. It will be not very comfortable, because you cannot see what you are doing ;D (but you can use the mirror) The ABS ring is covered with a plastic cap (#14 here (http://www.elcats.ru/ford/Parts.aspx?Model=84&Group=F790000B&AtId=26041) or see the 3-rd page of this thread for it's picture): You can remove it with a flat screwdriver (there's a little gap between the cap and the hub, so you can push screwdriver there. Once the cap is removed, you can access the sensor's head and ring. Here's the picture of left front wheel (with removed cap) http://ipevnitsky.fromru.su/ABS/ABS_LF_sensor_s_comments.jpg I'd use WD-40 and then air copmressor to blow out all the dirt out of there |
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Title: Re: ABS and traction control lights came on! Post by fredcogger on Aug 3rd, 2009, 9:14pm Once again thanks for the advice Ivan. I have now cleaned the sensors as suggested and have checked resistance of sensors (at the connectors under the rear seat, and at the connectors under the front wings) All read Just over 1K ohms. But light still comes on. I would now like to check resistance at the connection to the controller to check that the connections are good from the controller all the way back to the sensors but I’m slightly confused. The exploded view in the Brake Manual shows two multi-way connectors coming from beneath the modulator between the rubber mountings. My unit doesn’t seem to have this but seems to have a single connector plugged in just below the modulator and secured by a single hex head bolt. Is this the connector that you mentioned which is shown on page 3 of this thread? |
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Title: Re: ABS and traction control lights came on! Post by Ivan Pevnitsky on Aug 4th, 2009, 1:15am There're two types of ABS modulators http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/manual/brake/ABSHydraulUnit-97.pdf http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/manual/brake/ABSHydraulUnit97+.pdf my scorp has latter one. See the step 3 in this manual ("Disconnect the hydraulic unit multiplug") on how to disconnect multiplug. The corellation between the multiplug holes and sensors are shown on page 2 (http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=Problems;action=display;num=1241354560;start=15#26) |
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Title: Re: ABS and traction control lights came on! Post by amigafan2003 on Aug 18th, 2009, 8:34pm Dragging an old thread up - do you have to disconnect the actual pump to do this or can you just remove the controller part. Guess who just got the "abs lights come on at 15mph" fault :-( |
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Title: Re: ABS and traction control lights came on! Post by Tompion on Aug 18th, 2009, 11:53pm You can remove the controller without removing the pump/valve block. It’s more difficult on the older version as the controller is underneath. Clean the sensors & sensor rings first to make sure it’s not just dirt/magnetic particles causing the problem. |
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Title: Re: ABS and traction control lights came on! Post by amigafan2003 on Aug 19th, 2009, 11:17am Excellent, thanks for the advice:-) Is the controller in this picture an old or new one? http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v25/amigafan2003/100_2749.jpg Odd thing is the light went out and stayed out on the drive to work this morning. Then when I went to move the car half an hour ago they came back on again :-( I'll check the sensors first then look at the unit if they check out. At least the I don't have to start disconnecting bake fluid connectors :-) |
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Title: Re: ABS and traction control lights came on! Post by Tompion on Aug 19th, 2009, 11:48am That’s the older type, others who have done the job will no doubt give advice. You could try removing the multiplug held by 1 bolt & putting it back - in case it’s a bad contact there. There's a switch in the multiplug that makes the light come on when unplugged. Make sure the plug goes fully home as the one I looked at was quite sensitive. http://i.imgur.com/XMKwOMZ.jpg |
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Title: Re: ABS and traction control lights came on! Post by Chieftain on Aug 19th, 2009, 2:47pm You can reset the old type as well, turn ignition to the position befroe all lights come on, do this 3 times should hear a bong, then turn off another bong and thta clears the light. |
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Title: Re: ABS and traction control lights came on! Post by Highlander on Aug 19th, 2009, 2:52pm on 08/19/09 at 14:47:06, Chieftain wrote:
Isnt that to program the remote?? Does it clear the ABS light too?? |
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Title: Re: ABS and traction control lights came on! Post by Chieftain on Aug 20th, 2009, 7:47am on 08/19/09 at 14:52:11, Highlander wrote:
You are right Highlander but for some reason it seems to clear the abs light on the rare occasions it has come on for no reason. Coincidence or what I do not know but seems to do the trick. ;D |
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