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        General >> Problems >> Help. auto gear change issue
        
(Message started by: exaktaman on May 7^th, 2009, 6:30pm)

Title: Help. auto gear change issue
Post by exaktaman on May 7^th, 2009, 6:30pm

Hello All,

I originally posted this problem on 04/30/09 'Ultima 2.3 Auto Gearbox problem (60k)

I am, for the time being having to live with the problem but in the mean time I thought I'd try a trans fluid & fliter change. The 'Screen Assembly' (would this be the filter?) Finis Nr. 4000411 & Gasket Finis Nr. 6941997 cost in total £42.46.

The young fella behind the counter couldn't find any reference to an 'O' ring - 'fact he had never heard of a Scorpio Ultima either!

I've found an Ultima gear box - used of course - would it be a practical proposition to rebuild this box myself? Are all the necessary parts readily available - in kit form perhaps?

I have the space and, the skills of a friend who has done a lot of work for me in the past.

Any & all advice would be welcome,
Exaktaman

Title: Re: Hell
Post by Jonnycab on May 8^th, 2009, 1:11am

Hi there, from reading your other post it was suggested that it could be a servo problem. I've had a similar problem that was sorted out today & it was caused by a blown servo seal.

The transmission guy didn't have to remove the cat or the sump as the servo is located on the O/S of the box. It's worth getting this checked out first before you do anything drastic, as it is a reasonably simple fix & may save you alot of time, money & hassle. It ended up costing me just £97.00, instead of the £700 that I thought it was possibly going to cost me for a rebuild ;)

Hope this helps :)

Title: Re: Hell
Post by exaktaman on May 8^th, 2009, 10:30am

Hi Jonnycab & to everyone else out there,

First the Subject - it was meant to be Help!

Jonnycab, thanks for response. There are two Servos can you please tell me which one would affect the 2 to 3 shift - the one nearest the engine or the other? Can I expect a lot of fluid loss?

You will gather I don't know a lot about auto transmissions but in 'another life' I was an engineer - now well and truly retired - and I do realise the importance of cleanliness and very careful assembly in hydraulic systems - sorry I'm rambling.

I'll certainly do as you suggest - thanks again,

Exaktaman

Title: Re: Help. auto gear change issue
Post by scorpio_man on May 8^th, 2009, 10:55am

hi there

there are 2 good write up on the gearbox reconditioning on g&s online.

ok, they're for the older type gearbox in the granada or 12v scorpio, but it still gives you an idea what can be done.

http://www.granada-and-scorpio-online.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=16301

Title: Re: Help. auto gear change issue
Post by Jonnycab on May 8^th, 2009, 1:26pm

Sorry, I don't know which of the servos he replaced as I didn't ask. I was just glad to get the car back & working properly ;)...He did show me the old servo though & the seal looked in a pretty bad way. Makes me wonder what the condition of the other servo is :-/

My problem was more to do with 2nd gear, instead of engaging, was just slipping. Which was down to the blown seal not holding oil pressure. The only way I could get it into 2nd was to put the box in winter mode so it pulled off in 2nd, but it wouldn't hold for long & would start slipping at just over 2000 rpm :)

Title: Re: Help. auto gear change issue
Post by gozz on May 9^th, 2009, 12:13am

exaktaman.
You have a clutch problem,not a band problem.Your situation is unfortunately rather more complex than Jonnycab's.
GOZZ.

Title: Re: Help. auto gear change issue
Post by exaktaman on May 9^th, 2009, 8:59pm

Hello folks,

Gozz, my hopes have been dashed again! It seems I'm just not going to find an easy fix for this problem.

I waited just a wee bit too long too long to get the box I mentioned earlier - d**n and other words of annoyance. I read the write-ups advised by Scorpio-man and they really are very good; they've given me the confidence to go ahead with a rebuild when I find the right box.

It seems, from the article, that I'll have to source a lot of replacement parts from the good-old US of A.
What is wrong with this country.

With regard to a trans fluid & filter change - am I wasting my time?

Exaktaman.

Title: Re: Help. auto gear change issue
Post by Jonnycab on May 10^th, 2009, 1:47am

Gozz...are you totally sure about your diagnosis of exaktamans problem ?

exaktamans original post....."I have a bad 2nd to 3rd shift. Fluid is clean, no burnt smell & up to full level when checked using recommended method. The 2 to 3 change takes place with a surge in RPM (about 500 revs). From cold this change is normal but gets bad as the box warms up. The rest of the changes are normal & O/D works OK. D & R take up normally when selected.

Sounds a bit like my problem was, in that mine was fine when cold, but only got bad when warmed up

With only 60K on the clock then surely the internals of the box can't be that worn, unless it was a bad box to start with :-/

exaktaman.....my advice would be to take the car to a good autobox specialist, as I did ;) They will test drive it to get an idea of what's going on, then advise you of what the problem may be & give you a best case & worst case scenario price.

The place I took mine to didn't charge me a penny to do this test....& any other good honest autobox specialist should be the same :)

Title: Re: Help. auto gear change issue
Post by joe-satch on May 10^th, 2009, 6:35am

jon mate,to what auto box place did you use??.. :)..regards den. :)

Title: Re: Help. auto gear change issue
Post by Simmo on May 10^th, 2009, 8:59am

As JC is no doubt sleeping off a late night working the details are in his post Here (http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=Problems;action=display;num=1241134151;start=15#15). Page 2. ;)

Title: Re: Help. auto gear change issue
Post by gozz on May 11^th, 2009, 8:06am

JC.
To diagnose an auto problem positively by message can never be 100%,however I ,as a recipient of many a problem over the years,can speak with the benefit of that.The problem exactaman has is typical of a hardening of the seal in the operating clutch for 3rd gear,this is by no means uncommon,and since the seal has the shaft through the centre of it,the box would have to be stripped to replace the seal.Your brake band problem was similar in origin,but accessible from the outside because those two servos are at rightangles to the driving mechanism.
GOZZ.

Title: Re: Help. auto gear change issue
Post by Jonnycab on May 11^th, 2009, 10:16am

Sorry I doubted you Gozz ;)...... ;D

Title: Re: Help. auto gear change issue
Post by gozz on May 11^th, 2009, 3:31pm

JC.
Blimey,did you doubt me ? didn't realise that ;D
GOZZ.

Title: Re: Help. auto gear change issue
Post by exaktaman on May 12^th, 2009, 10:26pm

Hello All,

Is it possible to buy a Valve Body rebuild kit for the A4LDE box - in the UK that is? I don't seem to be able to find anywhere that can supply the DIYer with all of the necessary parts to rebuild a complete box. It seems one has to go to the USA to get any real help along these lines.
Exaktaman

Title: Re: Help. auto gear change issue
Post by Jonnycab on May 14^th, 2009, 1:25am

Have you tried an autobox specialist ?....the guy that fixed my autobox said if it had needed to be rebuilt, then it would have taken 2-3 days to remove the box, strip it, rebuild it & put it back on.....He didn't mention anything about waiting for any new parts to come in from the States :)

Title: Re: Help. auto gear change issue
Post by joe-satch on May 14^th, 2009, 7:13am

thank you 'simmo'...yes i know the place jon mentioned. :).

Title: Re: Help. auto gear change issue
Post by gozz on May 14^th, 2009, 10:25am

exactaman.
Look up VMTP,they are at Norton Canes in the West Midlands,and supply the transmission trade.
GOZZ.

Title: Re: Help. auto gear change issue
Post by exaktaman on May 19^th, 2009, 6:48pm

Hello again,
Gearbox specialist recons, 'could be a couple of things' - box out, rebuild etc - £1000!
I have noticed another behavior pattern. From cold, Reverse engages with a bit of a thump. (This is always the first gear selected as I back the car off the path). When completely warmed up I get no thump but short delay.
Since I've got the filter & gasket I am going ahead with a trans fluid change. Can anyone give me the Finnis number of the 'O' ring needed? Two Ford dealershiips can't identify it!
Exaktaman

Title: Re: Help. auto gear change issue
Post by Tompion on May 19^th, 2009, 7:43pm

Don't forget you may need to pack out the bolt for the filter as the new filters have a thinner fixing.

There are 2 O rings, these are the details from fordpartsuk 3 years ago, but whether it's a ref recognised at FMD I don't know.

Scorpio 2.3DOHC-AutoBox O Ring
Part Number: 6152081(QTY1)
Retail Price: .63p
You Pay: .57p
Scorpio 2.3DOHC-AutoBox O Ring
Part Number: 6117033(QTY1)
Retail Price: .36p
You Pay: .33p

Title: Re: Help. auto gear change issue
Post by exaktaman on May 19^th, 2009, 9:15pm

Thanks Tompion.

Exaktaman

Title: Re: Help. auto gear change issue
Post by Dave2302 on May 24^th, 2009, 11:06pm

Hi,

I am a semi retired auto box specialist.
I agree wiv Gozz, and FWIW the clutch that engages 3rd i.e. the Direct Clutch is also applied in Reverse hence the Reverse issues you have.

Not trying to be a party pooper, but I would not advise you to undertake a rebuild yourself on these transmissions. There are too many possible pitfalls and plenty of specialist tools needed that you wont have access to. I fear your efforts would be in vain and the money spent on parts would be wasted.

HTH Regards Dave

Title: Re: Help. auto gear change issue
Post by exaktaman on May 27^th, 2009, 5:18pm

Hello Dave 2302,
Thanks for your comments. Yea, I think I will leave it to the experts after all.

Regards, Exaktaman.