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Title: 24v keeps stalling Post by BrianC on May 25th, 2009, 11:20pm Hi Everybody, I wonder if you can give me some advice. I have a low mileage (66,000 miles) Cosworth Ultima 98R reg Scorpio which is becoming unreliable. At the moment it keeps stalling when it is on tick-over or when running slowly with my foot off. It starts straight away but the instrument cluster resets and the trip computer reverts to metric. I have done a check on the instrument cluster and it says the voltage from the battery is 11.1 volts, which seems a little low to me, rising to 13.7v when the engine starts. The instrument cluster regularly resets on turning on the ignition but does not revert to metric. I did have an ignition relay burn out a month or so ago but I don’t know if this is significant. I have tried talking to my local Ford dealer but can't get anywhere. Can anyone suggest where I go from here? Brian |
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Title: Re: 24v keeps stalling Post by wojtekor on May 25th, 2009, 11:21pm The instrument cluster keeps resetting, huh? Sounds like a dying battery... Change the battery and if it doesn't help check the alternator, but there should be no need for that as the new battery should solve the problem. Quote:
They are useless as always }{ |
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Title: Re: 24v keeps stalling Post by Highlander on May 26th, 2009, 12:03am Hi Brian, does it stall every time you are at idle or just the odd time? does it have a rough idle? could be idle control valve/ fuel pressure regulator possibly sticking aircon compressor, does it stall with the aircon off? have you cleaned the MAF? would be worth an OBD scan if you can get one |
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Title: Re: 24v keeps stalling Post by wojtekor on May 26th, 2009, 12:11am about that stalling Stuart, I was thinking dying battery + worn alternator=stalling idle control valve/ fuel pressure regulator sounds probable but has nothing to do with the instrument cluster resetting... i bet it's something simple and battery related ;) |
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Title: Re: 24v keeps stalling Post by Jonnycab on May 26th, 2009, 12:19am Is the small black lead on the battery negative secured nice & tight ? :) |
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Title: Re: 24v keeps stalling Post by Highlander on May 26th, 2009, 12:27am on 05/26/09 at 00:11:52, wojtekor wrote:
If the battery and alternator were both in such a bad state that they caused the engine to die then surely it wouldnt restart.. |
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Title: Re: 24v keeps stalling Post by wojtekor on May 26th, 2009, 12:38am it could restart... did a test once ;) you can start it up to 7 times in a row and then just switch it off on a dying battery before it's totally flat ;) before you say anything, the test wasn't done on my car ;) [i'd never be that cruel to it ;) ] anyway if he can get the car running for a while before it stalls it will recharge a bit eventually... JC may also have a point here with that neg. lead :) |
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Title: Re: 24v keeps stalling Post by mick_66 on May 26th, 2009, 1:39am can see a bet coming ..SOON.!!! lmao... my moneys on staurt(highlander) this time... ;) ;) |
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Title: Re: 24v keeps stalling Post by wojtekor on May 26th, 2009, 1:46am no bet this time Mick ;) i've got cash flow issues ;) besides,this is a brainstorm not an argument ;) and we're here for the ultimate cause of getting the 24v running for Brian ;) |
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Title: Re: 24v keeps stalling Post by Highlander on May 26th, 2009, 8:18am lol :) I'm in agreement about the dying battery but i think the stalling problem is a different issue |
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Title: Re: 24v keeps stalling Post by scorpio_man on May 26th, 2009, 8:19am hi there i'd good for the battery theory. i would think with the low voltage, the car is shutting down various electronics. do you know when the battery was changed? maybe take it to kwik fit or the like to do a dis-charge test on it. hth |
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Title: Re: 24v keeps stalling Post by BrianC on May 26th, 2009, 8:24am Thanks for the replys. I have checked all the batery conections again and they are fine. I did check all of this last month when I was trying to solve the Ignition relay problem. Yesterday it stalled in heavy trafic about 5 times in a row before I turned back for home and then stalled every time it returned to idle for any length of time, including rolling down a hill behind a slow moving car. It always started cleanly. When it is just ticking over, all is smooth and fine until it just dies. I started it again last night to check a few things and it was fine, except for the dash reset almost every time I turned on the ignition. The fuel computer resets every time the dials do but only resets to metric when it stalls. It all seems very confusing to me. I can understand the dying battery idea on the dash but why does it stall? Thanks again for the ideas. I will try my other battery from my other scorpio later and let you know what happens |
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Title: Re: 24v keeps stalling Post by scorpio_man on May 26th, 2009, 8:48am hi there it stalls because of the low voltage. we've seen it lots of times but with starting issues. members come on and say the car turns over ok, but won't start. we tell them it's the battery and to try a jump start just to get going. next thing it starts! the scorpio seems to be very sensitive to voltage. hth |
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Title: Re: 24v keeps stalling Post by gozz on May 26th, 2009, 8:49am Brian. The little lead to which JC refers has been known to fracture inside the insulation causing intermittent symptoms as described. GOZZ. |
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Title: Re: 24v keeps stalling Post by NiceMan on May 26th, 2009, 9:50am I say idle control valve need clean if stall when you stop car like to traffic light... My 24V altenator volts is 14.0-14.2 but my battery is very new like 4 month old. But look motor cabel too... i can say at its not new if cabel is broke... |
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Title: Re: 24v keeps stalling Post by Waglet on May 26th, 2009, 11:41am Having had similar "stopping" issues could it be fuel pump, mine was/is. |
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Title: Re: 24v keeps stalling Post by wojtekor on May 26th, 2009, 1:08pm Quote:
Quote:
totally agree. change the battery and will be OK ;) |
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Title: Re: 24v keeps stalling Post by Highlander on May 26th, 2009, 2:21pm I'm not convinced, if the voltage was so low as to cut out the engine it wouldnt restart, the battery would be dead. The alternator on its own should be providing more than enough juice to keep the car running and if the alternator AND battery were BOTH broken it wouldnt be starting.. Am i picking you up correctly Brian in that its starting fine, the problem is that it stalls at idle? |
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Title: Re: 24v keeps stalling Post by scorpio_man on May 26th, 2009, 2:28pm hi Stuart you could well be right and it's 2 issues. it certainly won't do any harm to clean out the idle by pass valve anyway. my thinking is that the voltage is dropping at idle and the car is then shutting down. i wonder if a DTC would register? Brian, can you do a climate control reset and see if you get an error code on there. |
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Title: Re: 24v keeps stalling Post by BrianC on May 26th, 2009, 3:12pm Yes Scorpio_man would love to do a climate control reset but not sure how - could you tell me? Thanks Highlander and have to say I agree with you - I can start the car but that's when the dash resets itself back to metric each time. The car stalls when idling or whilst driving - it happened when drifting down hill or behind slow traffic so was not accelerating at the time. Thanks for all the replies so far - much appreciate the help. |
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Title: Re: 24v keeps stalling Post by scorpio_man on May 26th, 2009, 3:20pm hi there here you go... http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/ccreset.htm it will be great when we get to the bottom of it! hth |
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Title: Re: 24v keeps stalling Post by BrianC on May 26th, 2009, 3:33pm Hi Scorpio_man Thanks for the link - the error code that came up is '57'? Also just as an addition - Without starting the engine the dials all reset themselves again and the battery voltage is now 11.3v (previously 11.1v) measured at the dash board. Measuring the battery it is 11.76v, I will change the battery from the other scorpio I have and see what that does - maybe we can eliminate 1 problem. Brian |
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Title: Re: 24v keeps stalling Post by Simmo on May 26th, 2009, 3:40pm Brian the '5' is a strange anomaly and it should read 07 ie: HBC fault. If you go to the same link and look down the 'buttons' on the left you'll see one marked HBC test. Have a read and see how you get on. ;) |
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Title: Re: 24v keeps stalling Post by gozz on May 26th, 2009, 3:42pm Don't think anyone's mentioned the throttle potentiometer.Twice I have had a situation with my funeral limousines,albeit 12 valve engines,where the thing stops at road junctions and traffic lights,not too handy with mourners on board when you have to put it into gear at fast idle ! ::) GOZZ. |
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Title: Re: 24v keeps stalling Post by NiceMan on May 26th, 2009, 5:35pm Automatic? Stall only idle? If onlyu idle... cleenm that whjat i say =) What is battery volt when car no run? Use multimeter... 12 is empty 12.8 is full 12.5 - 12.7 is normal when not drive long way. Code "57" is same than "07" My come 57/07 and 03 ... |
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Title: Re: 24v keeps stalling Post by NiceMan on May 26th, 2009, 5:36pm http://www.riceracing.net/gal/thumbnails.php?album=36 I wish at you have no this problem what i have... Now my 24v works again ;-) |
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Title: Re: 24v keeps stalling Post by BrianC on May 28th, 2009, 3:29pm Latest update. I have tried another battery which seemed to cure the problem of the dash resetting so I took the old battery to our local battery place who tested it and found that it was well on it's way out so I bought a new one. I have been running arround with the car today to see that all is ok. The dash reset problem has now gone away and the car does not stall when it is out on the road but it does stall almost every time once just after it has been started for the first time when it has been left for a while. It was ok the first time but then the choke would hsve been on this morning? I will have a look at the idle control valve next - if I can find it. Thanks again for your Help Brian |
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Title: Re: 24v keeps stalling Post by scorpio_man on May 28th, 2009, 3:45pm hi there well it looks like it is two issues. re the idle valve, you need to take the 24v engine cover off. it's then towards the rear l/h side of the engine, iirc. take note of which way the multi plug is facing as it can go back on the wrong way. clean it out with carb cleaner and work the piston with a little light oil. hth |
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Title: Re: 24v keeps stalling Post by BrianC on May 28th, 2009, 6:25pm Hi All, I have cleaned the valve and added a drop of light oil. There was some dust in it but it didn't seem too bad or sticky. Started the engine and it started first time with no hesitation. All was smooth untill the fans switched on but it immediately recovered to a smooth tick-over again at about 750 rpm. It was fine for another 10 seconds and then it died. Restarted and it's perfect. Left it for 30 minutes and this time, the dash reset itself but the voltage is 12.7 volts so I don't think we can blaim the battery this time. I suppose that means it is an electrical fault perhaps. Will this car ever work propperly??? I think I need to think about it some more!!!! Brian |
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Title: Re: 24v keeps stalling Post by BrianC on May 28th, 2009, 6:38pm One last thing. I checked the ODB II and there are still no error codes, other than 0000. I am not sure what the Climate control reset has to do with anything? It comes up with error code 00 and then changes to 57. Pressing the Cooler button changes this to 50 and pressing the hotter button changes this back to 57. The air conditioning system seems to work fine, including the blower. |
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Title: Re: 24v keeps stalling Post by NiceMan on May 28th, 2009, 7:48pm 57 code is same than 07 ... i come it too and 03 too... i plan make new cabel to that too. Can you test fuel pressure? But i want say one time more... Clean again Valve... Take only that solenoid out vere cabel go, Them keep it hole up and put cleaneroil inside and push that in/out some soft things..(I meen that metal inside... Sorry my english...) Put so much cleaner and its come full, them wait one minute, take clean white paper and put solenoid hole to down, press some time that metal in/out(That waht control valve). If coem dirty to paper put cleaner again inside... etc... Make that so many time at out come only clean oil/cleaner. My that idle valve stuvk sometime but after clean its start smooth. If this not help look Cabel... this is second and normal problem on 24v... CAbel inside motor and cabel what go to Ecu... My 24v cabels is broke... Look links before where is some photo my 24v projekt. |
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Title: Re: 24v keeps stalling Post by Highlander on May 28th, 2009, 9:44pm What rating of battery did you get? |
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Title: Re: 24v keeps stalling Post by BrianC on May 28th, 2009, 9:48pm 72 Amp/hr |
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Title: Re: 24v keeps stalling Post by Highlander on May 28th, 2009, 9:55pm What is the CCA figure? just making sure its got the correct capacity for a 24v, it needs a big un :) |
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Title: Re: 24v keeps stalling Post by Highlander on May 28th, 2009, 10:00pm Did you check and see if it still stalled with the aircon off? remember the aircon will be on as default when you start the car even though the light is off, you will need to switch it off |
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Title: Re: 24v keeps stalling Post by python9 on May 29th, 2009, 6:29am maybe you have a faulty dis pack giving you a spark to start then cuts out so car stalls you must have a problem in the fueling or hi tension circiut ie spark to the plugs |
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Title: Re: 24v keeps stalling Post by BrianC on May 29th, 2009, 7:32pm The aircon makes no difference, on or off, it still stalls but I have made a new discovery. As there are plenty of volts in the battery and charging system all the time to keep the dash from resetting, I decided to try and follow the power supply that is dropping below the 10 volts causing a dash reset. It all goes through one of the 7.5 Amp fuses marked as 'Electronics' (17) in the central fuse box. While in there I noticed that one of the heated rear screen relays R5 was warm. It is energised all the time, regardless whether the switch is on or the ignition is on. There is no light on in the switch. I am now beginning to think that perhaps there is a problem in the central fuse box, probably with corrosion and/or damp. Does my reasoning making any sense? Still working my way through the problem and will report back if I find anything else!!! Brian ps Thank you for all your suggestions |
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Title: Re: 24v keeps stalling Post by wojtekor on May 29th, 2009, 7:50pm Quote:
r5 is for interior lights! there's an error in the UK manual saying it's for the rear screen! |
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