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        General >> Problems >> 2.3 blowing coil packs
        
(Message started by: Highlander on Jun 1^st, 2009, 9:14pm)

Title: 2.3 blowing coil packs
Post by Highlander on Jun 1^st, 2009, 9:14pm

I'm not familiar with the 16v's and was wondering if anyone else had seen this problem before I start removing large chunks of engine etc :)

2.3 auto fitted with LPG

car runs fine generally.

On the very odd occasion under heavy load, when the car is stopped or nearly stopped and I put my foot down to pull away or climb a hill then I get almost a backfire effect, there is no actual backfire but I can feel it through the pedal/bodywork, feels like a right crack like shorting jump leads together.

It will do this a few times intermittently then one of the coil packs will fail (both have failed, one of them twice)

Of the three times the coil packs failed I lost just one cylinder twice and both cylinders the other time.

I'm suspecting a short somewhere or a bad earth but most of the engine loom looks really good condition.

Have replaced the EDIS unit which made no difference.

Anyone had anything similar?

I'm down to my last 8 coil packs }{

Title: Re: 2.3 blowing coil packs
Post by adam on Jun 1^st, 2009, 9:31pm

It sounds like the LPG system itself causing the backfire effect. I presume it is single point and not multi-sequential.

Title: Re: 2.3 blowing coil packs
Post by wojtekor on Jun 1^st, 2009, 9:32pm

take the loom out and have a really really good look m8... if you don't sort it out till our next meet bring it with you ;) is there any difference between petrol and lpg when you run it?

Title: Re: 2.3 blowing coil packs
Post by wojtekor on Jun 1^st, 2009, 9:33pm

adam was faster ;)

Title: Re: 2.3 blowing coil packs
Post by wojtekor on Jun 1^st, 2009, 9:34pm

99% that it's lpg related... check this:

http://translate.google.pl/translate?prev=hp&hl=pl&js=n&u=http%3A%2F%2Fforum.fordclubpolska.org%2Fshowthread.php%3Ft%3D69410&sl=pl&tl=en&history_state0=&swap=1

again google translate failed but you can get the idea of what's written there... basically a guy had a big booom because of a faulty lpg kit that was 'collecting' gas in numerous places, hoses etc., and when there was enough gas it was exploding in places you'd never think of...

Title: Re: 2.3 blowing coil packs
Post by scorpio_man on Jun 1^st, 2009, 9:42pm

hi there

it's a multi point system which is plumbed into the intake manifold.

Stuart is talking about a backfire feeling, not a backfire up the air trunking as on a single point system.

i go along with Stuart's idea about a bad earth/wiring.

hth

Title: Re: 2.3 blowing coil packs
Post by Highlander on Jun 1^st, 2009, 9:43pm

Yep its not an actual backfire , it just feels like a backfire with out the fire if you know what i mean :) just a crack vibrating through the body but not loud

No sign of anything on the engine loom at all, right down to the large square multiplug, looks in really good nick.

Does exactly the same with the LPG system turned off and running on petrol only.

I'm not getting any bad running or smoke or anything, just a quick intermittent cough on the very odd occasion then its gone, i'm assuming whatever is happening the coil packs can only take so much before they fail

Title: Re: 2.3 blowing coil packs
Post by wojtekor on Jun 1^st, 2009, 9:51pm

hmmm... interesting.... i'll take a look on the polish forum and let you know as personally have no better idea then the wiring... i'd really take it out and have a closer look...

Title: Re: 2.3 blowing coil packs
Post by wojtekor on Jun 1^st, 2009, 9:58pm

have you tried spark plug leads etc?

Title: Re: 2.3 blowing coil packs
Post by Highlander on Jun 1^st, 2009, 10:02pm

Have replaced them too just in case but its still doing it, I was a bit disappointed that it blew the other coil pack yesterday, i thought it was just localised to the front one but its obviously not.

Will change the plugs too, dont think thats the problem but will give it a go.

Title: Re: 2.3 blowing coil packs
Post by wojtekor on Jun 1^st, 2009, 10:27pm

try blinding the EGR and changing the ignition coil

Title: Re: 2.3 blowing coil packs
Post by Highlander on Jun 1^st, 2009, 10:53pm

I've been changing coils all week!! ;D

Title: Re: 2.3 blowing coil packs
Post by wojtekor on Jun 1^st, 2009, 10:56pm

what i meant was, blind the EGR and then change the coil and c if it blows that one too... ;)

Title: Re: 2.3 blowing coil packs
Post by wojtekor on Jun 1^st, 2009, 11:25pm

no more ideas... can't find anything else... don't really put hope in the EGR theory I found on the polish forum but it's worth a shot... i still think it's the loom, leads, spark plugs or something in-between....

oh and i forgot to ask the most important question! have you rebuilt the fusebox? }{ }{ }{

Title: Re: 2.3 blowing coil packs
Post by Jonnycab on Jun 2^nd, 2009, 10:26am

Stuart, have you checked the whole engine loom ?....not just the top. The loom can get quite bad where it goes to the manifold sensors & down to the crank & oil pressure sensors.

I recently fitted a new loom to a friends 2.3 because the car kept cutting out etc. The top part was pretty bad, but I was staggered at the amount of damage to the part of the loom that went to the ECT, temp sensor & down to the oil pressure & crank sensors. Much of the wiring had no insulation, there were alot of broken wire strands & alot of contact between the wiring. A new loom fixed all the problems he was having :)

I kept the old loom & here's a couple of pics to show you what I mean :)......

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i101/jonnycab/P6020463.jpg

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i101/jonnycab/P6020466.jpg

Title: Re: 2.3 blowing coil packs
Post by wojtekor on Jun 2^nd, 2009, 10:58am

Jonnycab i already told him to take it out and have a very close look but he won't listen ;)

Title: Re: 2.3 blowing coil packs
Post by Jonnycab on Jun 2^nd, 2009, 11:05am

I know, but sometimes you just have to say something twice before it sinks in ;D

Title: Re: 2.3 blowing coil packs
Post by wojtekor on Jun 2^nd, 2009, 11:15am

or 10 times ;) ;D

Title: Re: 2.3 blowing coil packs
Post by Highlander on Jun 2^nd, 2009, 2:23pm

Yep checked the whole loom and its in excellent condition.

I think i've found the problem ;)

While closely inspecting the loom i noticed the coil pack connectors had quite a lot of copper grease inside them, i reckon the copper is conducting and shorting out the two wires..

gave them a good spray with WD40 and removed all the copper grease i could see.

Gave the car a good hard drive from Edinburgh to Glasgow this morning and it ran perfectly, even seemed to pull better and be more responsive than its ever been, maybe thats just my imagination though..

Anyway i'll drive it hard for a few days and see what happens, looks promising though..

Title: Re: 2.3 blowing coil packs
Post by wojtekor on Jun 2^nd, 2009, 2:40pm

:o :o :o :o :o :o

oh my ::) you never know what you can find under the bonnet.... :o

good to know that it's working ;)

ps. how r the fuseboxes? }{ }{

Title: Re: 2.3 blowing coil packs
Post by scorpio_man on Jun 2^nd, 2009, 3:04pm

on 06/02/09 at 14:40:31, wojtekor wrote:

:o :o :o :o :o :o

ps. how r the fuseboxes? }{ }{

there's nothing wrong with those fuseboxes! ;D

in the seven years i owned the car, i only had to replace one fuse.

so we can rule that out! {} }{

Title: Re: 2.3 blowing coil packs
Post by wojtekor on Jun 2^nd, 2009, 3:09pm

if you say so Andrew ;)

Title: Re: 2.3 blowing coil packs
Post by scorpio_man on Jun 2^nd, 2009, 3:12pm

i do. :P }{

Title: Re: 2.3 blowing coil packs
Post by Jonnycab on Jun 2^nd, 2009, 3:52pm

Who put all that copper grease in the coil pack connectors then ? ;)

Title: Re: 2.3 blowing coil packs
Post by scorpio_man on Jun 2^nd, 2009, 4:59pm

on 06/02/09 at 15:52:27, Jonnycab wrote:

Who put all that copper grease in the coil pack connectors then ? ;)

hi there

think back to what happened to my old car last harewood meeting! :o :'(

when i got it back the coil pack plugs had the grease in them. i never though much about it when i put 2 new packs on a the turn of the year. i couldn't believe it when Stuart told me how many is used up so far!

i hope this is the solution.

Title: Re: 2.3 blowing coil packs
Post by Jonnycab on Jun 2^nd, 2009, 5:22pm

So the mechanic did it then ::)........was it unwitting, or was it sabotage ? :o..... ;D

Title: Re: 2.3 blowing coil packs
Post by scorpio_man on Jun 2^nd, 2009, 6:28pm

unwitting, no, it was worse than that!!!! >:(

Title: Re: 2.3 blowing coil packs
Post by Highlander on Jun 2^nd, 2009, 6:34pm

Seems to have sorted it, done about 200 miles hard driving today and it was fine..

How was the V6 coilpack connected Andrew? i'm guessing the loom connectors didnt fit it and it was wired some other way?

its running great and I reckon in the last month its saved me nearly £500 with the LPG ;D

Title: Re: 2.3 blowing coil packs
Post by scorpio_man on Jun 2^nd, 2009, 6:39pm

hi stuart

glad your saving money! ::) ;D

the v6 pack (mondeo mk2?) was bolted through the back lifting eye. it used the rear plug and used 2 ht leads to the spark plugs.

bikerdon should still have it, if you need to try it.

hth

Title: Re: 2.3 blowing coil packs
Post by Highlander on Jun 2^nd, 2009, 6:52pm

No its working ok now, just wondered how the V6 one was connected to the engine loom, was it through the same two coil pack connectors or did they splice in somewhere else?

Title: Re: 2.3 blowing coil packs
Post by scorpio_man on Jun 2^nd, 2009, 8:34pm

hi there

it only fed 2 plugs, but did use the normal loom plugs.

(i was told it came from a v6... maybe used 3 packs?) :-/

Title: Re: 2.3 blowing coil packs
Post by Highlander on Jun 2^nd, 2009, 8:37pm

A scorpio V6?

I had a look at the 24v one and you couldnt fit the 16v plugs to it, it would need some "modding" :)

Title: Re: 2.3 blowing coil packs
Post by scorpio_man on Jun 2^nd, 2009, 8:41pm

hi there

think it was a mondeo or a escort. not sure. too stunned to ask any more about it when i saw it!!!! :o

you should know, you saw it after they had finished with it! >:(

Title: Re: 2.3 blowing coil packs
Post by Highlander on Jun 2^nd, 2009, 9:03pm

Yep, it had a Flux Capacitor the lot! }{

It looked like Back to the Future vs Blue Peter }{