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        General >> Problems >> Expansion Tank low level Sensor 
        
(Message started by: Les59 on Jun 8th, 2009, 12:02pm)
Title: Expansion Tank low level Sensor
Post by Les59 on Jun 8th, 2009, 12:02pm
Expansion Tank low level Sensor

Hi, I sadly had to scrap my old 1995 2.8 24 v Cosworth Ultima, couple of months ago, Engine loom totally shot.
I remember replacing the expansion tank one time; the coolant level sensor was located in a hole from underneath.
I luckily managed to get a face lifted 1998 2.8 24v Cosworth Ultima in remarkable nick, apart from a bit of brake judder and using a little coolant nigh on perfect.
Getting to the point, even though the coolant level drops below low level and more some times, the warning light does not come on?? It goes off and on as it should when turning the ignition on, so bulb ok, decide to remove the expansion tank to check if someone had tampered with the sensor, and to my surprise no sensor, no wiring folded back, could not see any trace of wiring or sensor.
My question, is the sensor located in a different place? Or do you think someone has removed it completely, or maybe done something behind the dash.

Look forward to hearing from you

Les
Title: Re: Expansion Tank low level Sensor
Post by wojtekor on Jun 8th, 2009, 1:08pm
the sensor should be there.... maybe the head gasket is gone and the seller removed it... if i was you i'd go and do a sniff test cause you might have bought a lemon  :-/  :-X
Title: Re: Expansion Tank low level Sensor
Post by bizzay1 on Jun 8th, 2009, 1:10pm

on 06/08/09 at 12:02:03, Les59 wrote:
do you think someone has removed it completely



I think Henry did away with the low level sensor on the later scorps, but someone more knowledgable will be along to confirm or deny shortly
Title: Re: Expansion Tank low level Sensor
Post by scorpio_man on Jun 8th, 2009, 1:29pm

on 06/08/09 at 13:10:05, bizzay1 wrote:
I think Henry did away with the low level sensor on the later scorps, but someone more knowledgable will be along to confirm or deny shortly


hi there

later year models don't have the wiring for the sensor, even though the light comes on at start up. face light cars, iirc, don't even have the light!

hth
Title: Re: Expansion Tank low level Sensor
Post by wojtekor on Jun 8th, 2009, 1:52pm

Quote:
later year models don't have the wiring for the sensor


:o :o :o now i'm shocked...  :o :o :o not the best cost-cutting path to follow...
Title: Re: Expansion Tank low level Sensor
Post by Les59 on Jun 8th, 2009, 5:23pm
Thank Guys; the leak is through the expansion filler cap going to get a new one.
Re the low level sensor, why would the warning light illuminate at start up, what’s the point? Do you think it’s possible they put the sensor in another place maybe the radiator or somewhere else, any ideas?

Regards

Les
Title: Re: Expansion Tank low level Sensor
Post by Highlander on Jun 8th, 2009, 7:12pm
Are you sure you've not mistaken  something else for the coolant level bulb??

there was no coolant level sensor on the later model/ facelifts, they just removed it completely :)
Title: Re: Expansion Tank low level Sensor
Post by Les59 on Jun 8th, 2009, 7:52pm
No, I know what it looks like, also says in hand book
Title: Re: Expansion Tank low level Sensor
Post by wojtekor on Jun 8th, 2009, 7:56pm
so if there light so to say, there should be a  sensor... no sensor + coolant probs sounds like somebody removed it on purpose... head gasket gone? do a sniff test...
Title: Re: Expansion Tank low level Sensor
Post by bizzay1 on Jun 8th, 2009, 8:15pm
Mine's the same, it's a facelift with the light (that comes on with the ignition and goes off after 5 seconds) but no sensor. As scorpio_man says: -

"later year models don't have the wiring for the sensor, even though the light comes on at start up."
Title: Re: Expansion Tank low level Sensor
Post by scorpio_man on Jun 8th, 2009, 8:17pm
hi  there

as i said earlier, the newer cars had the light (on at start up check) but no sensor. the face lift car didn't have the bulb (led).

my (ex) 2.3 (oct '97) only has the light on at start up, but no sensor in the header tank.

hth
Title: Re: Expansion Tank low level Sensor
Post by Les59 on Jun 8th, 2009, 8:31pm
ok you made me double check, it is definitely the low level sensor, picture of radiator with prop, on page 9 of the hand book, I was told was face lifted version,  maybe not, my car is a R reg 2.9 24v valve Ultima with Cosworth engine, has more extras than my old 95 Ultima, has extra chrome inside doors etc. head light washers, parking sensors, movement sensors in car, both seats are elec and has extra Ultima badges and so on.
So maybe not the face lifted.
Title: Re: Expansion Tank low level Sensor
Post by bizzay1 on Jun 8th, 2009, 8:37pm
Mine was first registered on 5/12/97 it has (as far as I'm aware) all the facelift cosmetics except reversing sensors and has a light exactly the same as Les59 but no low level sensor  ???  :-/
Title: Re: Expansion Tank low level Sensor
Post by Les59 on Jun 8th, 2009, 8:45pm
I except all you say, glad to see a couple of you have the same car and the light iluminates then goes off, I was  starting to doubt myself, but can anybody explain what’s the point of having the light go on and off, seems hard to believe that Ford would go to the trouble of having a warning light go on and off making you believe that alls ok with coolant level when it could be empty.
Title: Re: Expansion Tank low level Sensor
Post by scorpio_man on Jun 8th, 2009, 8:55pm
hi there

that's ford and the scorpio for you! ::) }{
Title: Re: Expansion Tank low level Sensor
Post by lesterlad on Jun 8th, 2009, 9:03pm
I have the 2.3 Ghia x and the low level coolant light comes on if the coolant drops below the minimum mark on the header tank, but for the life of me I can't find any sensor in there  ???
Title: Re: Expansion Tank low level Sensor
Post by Highlander on Jun 8th, 2009, 9:08pm
its underneath the tank, can you see the wires going to it?
Title: Re: Expansion Tank low level Sensor
Post by amigafan2003 on Jun 9th, 2009, 8:45am
My facelift has the bulb but no sensor :-)
Title: Re: Expansion Tank low level Sensor
Post by Les59 on Jun 10th, 2009, 9:17am
Hi All, So quite a few of you have the same, bulb going on and off when ignition turned on same as other sensors, but no sensor fitted in hole under expansion tank and no wiring, as I said before I find it hard to believe that Ford would go to the trouble of removing a sensor and wiring but leave the bulb connected to some sort of source, that would leave you to believe that your expansion tank still had the required amount of water, a potential problem, I know you get other warnings if you loose water i.e. gauge and high temperature light, but it just doesn’t make sense, I don’t know if it bothers any of you as it does me, if so let me know, I am going to try to pursue this further, unless anyone has any ideas, my only other observation is the light goes of same time as the wind screen washer level light? Does anybody have a phone number or e-mail of Ford technical department or have any other suggestions?
Regards

Les
Title: Re: Expansion Tank low level Sensor
Post by Tompion on Jun 10th, 2009, 9:30am
It’s not a bulb, it’s a soldered in LED, so they’d have to have instrument clusters made/adapted to suit – so presumably they didn’t bother.
Title: Re: Expansion Tank low level Sensor
Post by amigafan2003 on Jun 10th, 2009, 10:08am
Doesn't bother me as I always check the fluids before every reasonable journey or once a week if no decent journeys planned.  


Quote:
Does anybody have a phone number or e-mail of Ford technical department or have any other suggestions?


I'm not sure they'd be interested in a car last produced 11 years ago.

In fact, I'd be surprised if any tech bods at Ford even know anything about a Scorp - there were few enough of them that did even when it was in production!
Title: Re: Expansion Tank low level Sensor
Post by Les59 on Jun 10th, 2009, 10:50am
ok so its an LED, still needs a signal from some where.
Still no one seems to be sure exactly why or if there is another sensor/sender, or what the real reason is.
I'm sure Ford wouldn't be interested, but it wont hurt to ask to try to find out what the logic is, of course always check fluid levels before going on a journey, it goes with out saying, but if there was a sudden loss of water on a long journey at least you would get an early warning, sooner the better as I’m sure you know any over heating/boil up can cause other problems
Title: Re: Expansion Tank low level Sensor
Post by amigafan2003 on Jun 10th, 2009, 1:20pm

Quote:
Still no one seems to be sure exactly why or if there is another sensor/sender, or what the real reason is.


I'm sure.

If there is no sensor in the header tank, there won't be one anywhere else.  The reason they did it was to cut costs.

Sorted.

Oh, and the light comes on but goes off because it attached to the same timer relay as the washer bottle.  It would need an open circuit provided by the correct sender to saty on.  There is no wiring in a late model loom for the sensor though, so you can't simply add one and plug it in.
Title: Re: Expansion Tank low level Sensor
Post by scorpio_man on Jun 10th, 2009, 5:47pm
hi there

if you really wanted it, you can change the header tank for one with the sensor. then you take the wiring from the windscreen washer bottle and move it to the new header tank. when the windscreen washer lights up, you'll need to remember it's now the header tank.

BTW, as said earlier, much better to check visually than rely on a sensor.

hth


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