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        General >> Problems >> Handbrake not working
        
(Message started by: roger_howes on Jun 13^th, 2009, 9:06am)

Title: Handbrake not working
Post by roger_howes on Jun 13^th, 2009, 9:06am

Hello all,

The handbrake mechanisms in both rear calipers on my 1997 Ultima Cossie have seized, so I have no handbrake at the moment. The garage I use freed them once, but they have gradually seized again. He now tells me that I need new calipers - at a cost (all in) of £200.

Is this the only way, or can they be freed again successfully?

If not, has anyone got a pair of good ones they will sell me?

Regards.

Roger.

Title: Re: Handbrake not working
Post by Simmo on Jun 13^th, 2009, 10:29am

Roger, This is a common problem and not easily resolved. The mechanism is deep in the caliper and only accessible once the unit is dismantled. The short answer,in my opinion,is to replace them BUT bear in mind that even though the handbrake mechanism on a secondhand one may be ok it will be worn inside. They frequently sieze on autos because they are not used as much. You can only try and free them off initially but the seal beneath the operating arm will prevent anything getting down onto the shaft inside. :)

Title: Re: Handbrake not working
Post by Jonnycab on Jun 13^th, 2009, 11:32am

[] with Simmo.....

I had the same thing happen a while ago & managed to free it off for a little while, but it didn't last very long. The only real cure was to replace the caliper :)

Title: Re: Handbrake not working
Post by big_timer on Jun 13^th, 2009, 12:07pm

my local motor factors(moto glass.belfast)offered a service in which you bought a recon rear caliper,which were original ford calipers,cleaned up,new mechanisms fitted and new nipples fitted.for £80 then when you returned the old caliper they gave you a refund of £30.

Title: Re: Handbrake not working
Post by big_timer on Jun 13^th, 2009, 12:08pm

i think that once the cam inside the caliper starts to wear you have no chance of gettin a good handbrake

Title: Re: Handbrake not working
Post by Simmo on Jun 13^th, 2009, 2:03pm

on 06/13/09 at 12:08:24, big_timer wrote:

i think that once the cam inside the caliper starts to wear you have no chance of gettin a good handbrake

[]. Thats exactly the problem.

Title: Re: Handbrake not working
Post by Highlander on Jun 14^th, 2009, 5:03pm

Oh dear I'm going to be disagreeing with everyone again!! ;D

Like a couple of they guys above I've successfully freed off calipers on a few occasions, WD40 and a small hammer seem to be the tools ;)

I usually knock them back and forwards a good while after they appear free just to make sure.

I also have a (bad) habit if its an auto of leaving the car in Park with the handbrake off for a while after freeing them

Cant say i've ever had a problem with them sticking again after though.

Comes down to money again I think, £200 for new calipers or half an hour with a small hammer and a can of WD40 now and again ;)

Title: Re: Handbrake not working
Post by big_timer on Jun 14^th, 2009, 11:00pm

there must be a repair kit for the caliper.(as in one of my last posts)

Title: Re: Handbrake not working
Post by Highlander on Jun 14^th, 2009, 11:34pm

Never seen them but someone must be getting them somewhere if they are being refurbed

Title: Re: Handbrake not working
Post by Jonnycab on Jun 15^th, 2009, 1:10am

Stuart, I'd have to disagree ;).....I drenched mine in 'plusgas' & whacked it back & forth with a hammer until it started moving. It did the trick for a little while but it wasn't working as smoothly as it should & soon seized up again.

Agreed that it's most likely down to relying on 'P' to hold the car & not the handbrake, but once the water gets into it & starts corroding, then the only sure way is to replace the caliper.

We all know what happens to the rear boot lock when we only use the remote to open it ;).....But that can be freed up because it's not exposed to as much water/salt from the road :)

P.S......got a decent 2nd hand caliper from the breakers for £20 :)

Title: Re: Handbrake not working
Post by roger_howes on Jun 15^th, 2009, 10:02am

Many thanks all for your comments and suggestions.

The garage actually released the handbrake mechanism, but is was only OK for 2 or 3 weeks before it gradually stopped working again!

I suspect that I will need new calipers. Actually, £200 all in (including fitting and VAT) doesn't seem too steep, athough it's still £199 more than I'd like to pay!

Regards.

Roger.

Title: Re: Handbrake not working
Post by a900one on Jun 17^th, 2009, 9:53pm

Did any one remove the spring and bolt, the shaft can then move up and down as well and I used 3 in 1 oil, not had a problem for several years now.

Title: Re: Handbrake not working
Post by Simmo on Jun 18^th, 2009, 6:37am

This is a method to try BUT as you no doubt discovered you cannot remove the shaft as the 'peg' which links it to the threaded rod on which the piston turns prevents that. IF it is lack of use/corrosion that may work BUT if there is wear in the components it may not. Hopefully after Harewood we may have a better idea as I have asked Highlander,and others, to examine one I dismantled. If we can get some photos on the site it may help in the future. ;)

Title: Re: Handbrake not working
Post by Highlander on Jun 18^th, 2009, 2:18pm

I wont be able to see it!
Snoopys going to pour molten lead into my eye sockets I believe :)

NOW WHY AM I GOING TO DO THAT ???. WHAT have you been up to ???.

Title: Re: Handbrake not working
Post by Neil W on Jun 18^th, 2009, 4:43pm

I tried every which way to free off my calipers and all resulted in working for a few weeks or months before seizing up again. I tried all the methods mentioned above. So in the end, with an MoT coming up, I bit the bullet and went for properly reconditioned units. It is not possible to recondition them yourself because the required seals are no longer available and in any case they are likely to be beyond recovery for the average home mechanic.

Recon units are dead easy to fit, except for unclipping and re-clipping the handbrake cable - that took more than an hour per side to unclip despite freeing off the adjuster completely and unclipping the cable from the suspension arms.

I got a pair of Budweg calipers for £203 incl vat and p&p (actually £303 less £100 for old ones) from Brakes International of Rochdale www.brakesint.co.uk and part numbers BCA 2060 & BCA 2061 (for 1998 cosworth). They were very efficient with next day delivery.

Hope this helps.

Neil W.

Title: Re: Handbrake not working
Post by wojtekor on Jun 20^th, 2009, 2:10am

OK, Stu has dropped off the cossie calipers today and I had a good look before dismantling them and getting them ready for painting.
Also did a research on polish websites (this nation has a cheap solution for everything ;) )and apparently there are plenty of repair/rebuild kits for Scorpio calipers available in poland and they cost an equivalent of 5-10£ !!! contain all rubber elements, bleeding tits etc.
If necessary pistons are also available for only a few pounds...

Other then that I found a fair deal of how-tos with pics and stuff on how to rebuild/fix the calipers that i can run through the google translate and post here...

Title: Re: Handbrake not working
Post by Highlander on Jun 20^th, 2009, 9:53am

That would be interesting, especially for the rear calipers..
They seem to be the main problem, especially the handbrake mechanisim

Title: Re: Handbrake not working
Post by Simmo on Jun 20^th, 2009, 10:26am

[]

Title: Re: Handbrake not working
Post by Tompion on Jun 20^th, 2009, 11:25am

on 06/18/09 at 16:43:28, Neil W wrote:

They do list service kits and pistons on that site http://www.brakesint.co.uk/ once you get to the caliper page you have to click on the blue associated button.

Title: Re: Handbrake not working
Post by wojtekor on Jun 20^th, 2009, 12:44pm

OK, I can't make it work as a direct link with google translate as it asks for login a password. Give me few min. to find a walkaround ;)

Title: Re: Handbrake not working
Post by wojtekor on Jun 20^th, 2009, 1:08pm

OKI DOKI :)

Got the pages rar'ed with translation in txt files. Should be fine.

Download link: http://massmirror.com/1da8ddddcf87b54594fb99f757a7b3a4.html

again it was translated with google translate so it's everything but perfect ;)

Title: Re: Handbrake not working
Post by wojtekor on Jun 20^th, 2009, 5:54pm

and another good site about calipers rebuilding process;
http://www.circletrack.com/techarticles/ctrp_0612_brake_caliper_rebuild/index.html

Title: Re: Handbrake not working
Post by wojtekor on Jun 22^nd, 2009, 9:00pm

on 06/17/09 at 21:53:19, a900one wrote:

Did any one remove the spring and bolt, the shaft can then move up and down as well and I used 3 in 1 oil, not had a problem for several years now.

how did you get the spring back on m8? ::)

Title: Re: Handbrake not working
Post by Jonnycab on Jun 23^rd, 2009, 9:10am

If you loosely fit the bolt, you should be able to lever the spring back on to the cam plate with a suitably sized screw driver ;)

I must add, that I when mine seized, I did remove the spring & bolt & then move the shaft up, then drench it in lubricant until it was moving again, but the cheap fix didn't last very long. Maybe if a caliper is a little stiff then it's possible to get it working again long term, but if it's completely seized (as mine was) then maybe trying to free it up is a waste of time :-/...... :)

Title: Re: Handbrake not working
Post by wojtekor on Jun 23^rd, 2009, 2:47pm

Jonny take a look at this for calipers reconditioning instructions:

on 06/20/09 at 13:08:46, wojtekor wrote:

Title: Re: Handbrake not working
Post by harry.m1byt on Jun 25^th, 2009, 11:20pm

I have had several Granadas and now the Scorp, all use the same system. I have never failed to have trouble with them (except for the Scorp). I have never failed to repair them by use of a small hammer, adjustable spanner plus large screwdriver and some lubrication on the pivot. I do them as a matter of course once per year before using the car for my annual holiday and usually check again before its MOT.

If they are not freely being moved by the return spring all the way back - I unhook the cable and the spring, then work them back and forth plus levering up and down, adding some oil until quite free, then finally coating the area with waterproof grease. The adjustable is used to force the arm against the spring to enable the cable end to be unhooked - made even easier if someone can pull on the handbrake, whilst you then hold the arm to let them release it - then the slack cable can be unhooked. If when I check them I find they are OK, then I just oil them and add grease over the top.

Unhooking the cable and the spring require the knack - the first side I attemp usually takes me a bit of time, until I reaquire the knack. The second one is done much more quickly.

If they are seizing up again in weeks, then I would suggest they have not had enough effort put into working the arm back and forth or not properly lubricated after being freed off.

The only complete failure I have had was the cable breaking close to the lug, when I had to fit a new cable.

I did once wrongly suggest that the arm and pivot could be pulled out, but I was mistaken - probably I was thinking of another car (SAAB's front wheel handbrake ?).

Title: Re: Handbrake not working
Post by Simmo on Jun 26^th, 2009, 8:55am

Harry, The reason the arm and shaft cannot be pulled out is because there is a small 'peg' which fits in a recess in the shaft and acts upon another recess in the main piston shaft. Thus they are effectively joined between the two chambers. Stuart has an old caliper I dismantled and hopefully we will get some pictures soon. I tried the method described yesterday and it does seem to have had some effect. Time will tell!! ??? ;)

Title: Re: Handbrake not working
Post by wojtekor on Jun 26^th, 2009, 2:06pm

Simmo pics and everything are in the rar file I uploaded... Has anyone even read it?

Title: Re: Handbrake not working
Post by Simmo on Jun 26^th, 2009, 3:05pm

If you mean the posts at 20 and 24 the first one needs an instruction manual !! ??? ??? and the second one says 'link broken'. All I want is a straightforward photo, on the site, to show the set-up. I'm sure Stuart has the 'technology' to achieve that for us OAPs. ;)

Title: Re: Handbrake not working
Post by wojtekor on Jun 26^th, 2009, 3:26pm

Ok, so first of all you need to click on:
http://massmirror.com/1da8ddddcf87b54594fb99f757a7b3a4.html
When the site is loaded you need to click 'Skip Ad' in the upper right corner
Then you get a list of mirrors you can download the file from
Let's say you'll choose rapidshare
after clicking another screen pops up saying:

You are about to leave MassMirror.com to download your requested file.
Do you wish to continue?
Click OK
Now you're on the rapidshare download site
click free user or premium user if you have an account with rapidshare
A countdown appears and when it's finished a round blue DOWNLOAD button appears
Click to download

When you have the file downloaded you need to extract the archive using WinZip or WinRar or something similar, just right click on the file and click Extract The Archive... A new folder is created with the contents of the archive and now you can browse it...

Title: Re: Handbrake not working
Post by wojtekor on Jun 26^th, 2009, 3:28pm

How-to on rar files ;)
http://www.tech-pro.net/howto_030b.html

Title: Re: Handbrake not working
Post by Simmo on Jun 26^th, 2009, 3:30pm

{} {} }{ }{ ??? ??? ::) ::). That may be simple to you to me it's like Chinese. I'll wait for Stuarts photo...thank you all the same ;D ;D

Title: Re: Handbrake not working
Post by wojtekor on Jun 26^th, 2009, 3:44pm

Oh, you OAPs :P

There you go, front calipers:
http://s868.photobucket.com/albums/ab243/wojtekor/?albumview=slideshow

Rear calipers:
http://s868.photobucket.com/albums/ab243/wojtekor/rear%20calipers/?albumview=slideshow

Happy now? ;D

Title: Re: Handbrake not working
Post by Simmo on Jun 26^th, 2009, 3:50pm

Now that is what I call service!! ;D. Thank you. What I wanted Stuart to 'show' was the indentation in the handbrake shaft and the one in the end of the piston rod. These are joined by the small 'peg' you show as 3d in the fourth photo and it is this which stops the shaft being removed unless the whole caliper is dismantled. Thanks ;D I'm sure many other OAPs are delighted too!. ;)

Title: Re: Handbrake not working
Post by wojtekor on Jun 26^th, 2009, 3:56pm

you're welcome :) 8)