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        General >> Problems >> 24V bad idle and stalling at morning
        
(Message started by: einherjar on Aug 28th, 2009, 8:56pm)
Title: 24V bad idle and stalling at morning
Post by einherjar on Aug 28th, 2009, 8:56pm
That's happens only at mornings on cold. I need to help with full throttle to prevent engine dying. After ~30sec engage D and start moving with (sorry, forgot how called on english work on few cylinders)  ::). Then after ~10sec of movement, engine works fine. I can shut it down and try again at evening - all will be OK, but all repeatings at the next morning.   :(
Title: Re: 24V bad idle and stalling at morning
Post by NiceMan on Aug 29th, 2009, 11:32am
Motor temp Sensor..
Title: Re: 24V bad idle and stalling at morning
Post by einherjar on Sep 1st, 2009, 5:50am
Replaced spark plugs today - no effect. Where is that motor temp sensor?
Title: Re: 24V bad idle and stalling at morning
Post by Simmo on Sep 1st, 2009, 8:26am
Read THIS page (http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/eecv.htm). There is a photo showing the location of various sensors including the  ECT. (Engine control temperature} and an explanation of its function.  :)
Title: Re: 24V bad idle and stalling at morning
Post by einherjar on Sep 1st, 2009, 6:48pm
ok, and where I can buy new ECT sensor? Can't find it in fiches  ???
Title: Re: 24V bad idle and stalling at morning
Post by tlundkvi on Sep 1st, 2009, 8:02pm

on 09/01/09 at 18:48:04, einherjar wrote:
ok, and where I can buy new ECT sensor? Can't find it in fiches  ???


They should be available as 3rd party on any well supplied parts factor. From Ford probably off the shelf.
Title: Re: 24V bad idle and stalling at morning
Post by einherjar on Sep 4th, 2009, 8:49pm

on 09/01/09 at 20:02:26, tlundkvi wrote:
They should be available as 3rd party on any well supplied parts factor. From Ford probably off the shelf.

Thanks, I found many ECT sensors, but now I need to be sure that problem in ECT, cause now, when weather are colder, Scorp can't  keep up idle even on evenings and I don't have much time to solve this problem before really cold weather start:(
Title: Re: 24V bad idle and stalling at morning
Post by NiceMan on Sep 5th, 2009, 9:33am
How is Idle speed valve? its clean? Clean that if not look it before...
Title: Re: 24V bad idle and stalling at morning
Post by tlundkvi on Sep 5th, 2009, 10:13am

on 09/04/09 at 20:49:41, einherjar wrote:
Thanks, I found many ECT sensors, but now I need to be sure that problem in ECT, cause now, when weather are colder, Scorp can't  keep up idle even on evenings and I don't have much time to solve this problem before really cold weather start:(


Mine was tested with a multimeter, a garage will know what the output voltage should be, mine showed too low reading, but guess the opposite is possible too.
Title: Re: 24V bad idle and stalling at morning
Post by NiceMan on Sep 5th, 2009, 11:01am
I wish at you have no Cabel problem ;-)
Title: Re: 24V bad idle and stalling at morning
Post by einherjar on Sep 6th, 2009, 4:19pm

on 09/05/09 at 09:33:00, NiceMan wrote:
How is Idle speed valve? its clean? Clean that if not look it before...

Don't get how can I check idle valve. I need to dismount and disassemble it?


on 09/05/09 at 11:01:22, NiceMan wrote:
I wish at you have no Cabel problem ;-)

What Cabel did you mean?
Title: Re: 24V bad idle and stalling at morning
Post by Simmo on Sep 7th, 2009, 8:11am
Yes you need to remove the Idle valve and clean lubricate with a light oil like 3 in 1. You could also read THIS page (http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/pooridle.htm).  
I think Nice Man is saying he hopes you do not have wiring problems.  ;)
Title: Re: 24V bad idle and stalling at morning
Post by NiceMan on Sep 7th, 2009, 10:18am
Yes... i wish at cabel iok... meen motor cabel... i need make all motor and Transmissio cabel new... old broke and motor stop work...
Now its works nice whti new cabel...
It can think at broken cabel in motor its normal...
http://www.riceracing.net/gal/thumbnails.php?album=36
Link has some photo from my cabel projekt.
Title: Re: 24V bad idle and stalling at morning
Post by einherjar on Sep 7th, 2009, 12:01pm

on 09/07/09 at 08:11:39, Simmo wrote:
Yes you need to remove the Idle valve and clean lubricate with a light oil like 3 in 1.

3 in 1? Don't hear about that sorts of oil or lubricates :) how about synth motor oil? Or maybe vegetable oil?  :)
Title: Re: 24V bad idle and stalling at morning
Post by einherjar on Sep 7th, 2009, 12:47pm

on 09/07/09 at 08:11:39, Simmo wrote:
You could also read THIS page (http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/pooridle.htm).  

Thanks, but all those troubles related to permanent poor idle. My problem appears on really cold engine and I not just losing my idle, I should open throttle almost full for couple secs for force higher revs through that flapping and coughing state. And than engine starting pull normal until next deceleration. When engine temp reaches ~40C, engine goes back to normal condition
Title: Re: 24V bad idle and stalling at morning
Post by dml316 on Sep 7th, 2009, 2:11pm
Long shot - but I had idling problems with my 24V after I'd been fiddling in the engine bay.
It turned out that I'd accidentally knocked the 3 vacuum lines off the connections (the 3 plasic lines between the coil and next to the header bottle.
Worth a check - but with these cars, it's normally the expensive bit that needs fixing!

Good luck

Darren
Title: Re: 24V bad idle and stalling at morning
Post by NiceMan on Sep 7th, 2009, 3:26pm
Good... Look Vacuum line... Many time plastic T-Peace is broke... Somebody other can say where they find because my english is poor....
Title: Re: 24V bad idle and stalling at morning
Post by einherjar on Sep 8th, 2009, 3:17pm
ECT checked - it's ok. Can't dismount idle valve - screw was steeped and I don't have WD-40  :-/ Also, replaced air filter don't give effect
Title: Re: 24V bad idle and stalling at morning
Post by einherjar on Sep 11th, 2009, 12:38pm
Idle valve checked - 12V goes on motor when ignition ON, but this motor not even moves  :( And most offensive that this idle motor not math with idle motors from other engines, so price for them is too high  :( Is it possible to drill rivets and disassemble it for motor repairment?
Title: Re: 24V bad idle and stalling at morning
Post by einherjar on Sep 11th, 2009, 9:21pm
My electrician checked this idle solenoid - all works fine, I just not grasp principle of it work.
So I decide go to service, let's they do diagnostic of engine.  :-/
Title: Re: 24V bad idle and stalling at morning
Post by einherjar on Sep 13th, 2009, 10:11am
Yesterday technician on Ford service after diagnostics and other stuff said that I need to change idle valve and ignition coil. And he said that 90% problem in that. OK, both was changed, but today at morning the same nuts was repeated  >:( Computer diagnostic of engine shows errors only on lambda-sensor, but I have normal fuel consumption and it's not related to morning problems, I think.  ???
One more time about my problem: when engine is totally cold it's started up, but can't hold xx, I need to help with throttle. Maybe during first ~1min engine works on few cylinders, flapping and coughing when I press accelerator, but even if I press it and see that revs ~1.5K, power on wheels going abruptly, maybe in 1-2 sec after I press accelerator. Then, after about minute of that, engine works fine and smooth all the time until next totally cold of it.   :(
Title: Re: 24V bad idle and stalling at morning
Post by einherjar on Sep 14th, 2009, 12:57pm
Guys, what do you think about air leak-in? Sneezing and coughing from exhaust and throttle collapse on low revs are caused by poor mix, aren't it? So I think extra air could leak in system, but through what and how can I check that?
Cause logically, when engine little warm, some gasket enlarges and pass much less of extra air in cylinder, no?
Title: Re: 24V bad idle and stalling at morning
Post by scorpio_man on Sep 14th, 2009, 1:20pm
hi there

check all the pipe work for the erg valve to the rear of your 24v engine.

hth
Title: Re: 24V bad idle and stalling at morning
Post by einherjar on Sep 14th, 2009, 1:58pm

on 09/14/09 at 13:20:07, scorpio_man wrote:
hi there

check all the pipe work for the erg valve to the rear of your 24v engine.

hth

Don't understand how can I check the pipe?  :-/  It's metal, right? So, what weird I can see there?
Title: Re: 24V bad idle and stalling at morning
Post by scorpio_man on Sep 14th, 2009, 2:41pm
hi there

check it with WD40 for leaks. with the engine running, the revs will change if it sucks in any of the oil.

http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/egrrepair.htm

hth
Title: Re: 24V bad idle and stalling at morning
Post by einherjar on Sep 14th, 2009, 3:15pm

on 09/14/09 at 14:41:17, scorpio_man wrote:
hi there

check it with WD40 for leaks. with the engine running, the revs will change if it sucks in any of the oil.

http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/egrrepair.htm

hth

Thanks, very interesting and I think related to my problem, but why this pipe leaks only on cold and only on idle revs?
Also, can I be sure that problem in EGR if I disconnect the multiplug to pressure transducer like it was described here? http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/faults_misfire2.htm
Title: Re: 24V bad idle and stalling at morning
Post by scorpio_man on Sep 14th, 2009, 5:44pm
hi there

the issue will be worse when cold because the fuelling will be at it's richest at start up.

sometimes a DTC will come up when you disable the egr. i never got one when i blanked off mine for a while. :-/

can you what your long term fuel trims are? this would give a good indication.

hth
Title: Re: 24V bad idle and stalling at morning
Post by einherjar on Sep 14th, 2009, 7:42pm

on 09/14/09 at 17:44:35, scorpio_man wrote:
hi there

the issue will be worse when cold because the fuelling will be at it's richest at start up.

sometimes a DTC will come up when you disable the egr. i never got one when i blanked off mine for a while. :-/


hth

Sorry, maybe it's may bad english, but I don't understand what DTC is? And how about disconnect that    multiplug from pressure transducer? It may helps with diagnostic of EGR problem or not?
And sorry, but what do you mean  saying

Quote:
can you what your long term fuel trims are?
Title: Re: 24V bad idle and stalling at morning
Post by scorpio_man on Sep 14th, 2009, 8:26pm
hi there

read through all of this to give you an idea of where your issue may be.

http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/homediag.htm

hth
Title: Re: 24V bad idle and stalling at morning
Post by einherjar on Sep 14th, 2009, 8:50pm

on 09/14/09 at 20:26:19, scorpio_man wrote:
hi there

read through all of this to give you an idea of where your issue may be.

http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/homediag.htm

hth

You mean I should buy a diagnostic tool to solve my problem?  :o
Title: Re: 24V bad idle and stalling at morning
Post by einherjar on Sep 21st, 2009, 1:33pm
OK, it's over. Engine not starting anymore. Not even fires when I engage starter.  :'(
How about injectors? Old LPG system was installed and used before me. Can it helped to finish off my injectors? And where I can find specifications of Cossy injectors? Cause genuine is unjustified expensive.
Title: Re: 24V bad idle and stalling at morning
Post by einherjar on Sep 27th, 2009, 11:18am
Motor-mechanic look on my Cossy today. First, he checked some pulses on ignition coil connector and said that that pulses goes not well when I crank the starter (I just don't remember what wrong with them ::) ). Then, we take out high voltage wire, put old spark plug in and check the spark when I crank starter. It was very faded, as the man said. Then we screw out new spark from the engine - it was totally black and all in fuel. So, problem not in the fuel system, right?
Weak spark and not normal pulses on ignition coil. What should I check now? Ignition coil was changed - no effect, so I think it's in normal condition.
Title: Re: 24V bad idle and stalling at morning
Post by Snoopy on Sep 27th, 2009, 12:26pm
EDIS pack inside the front wing could be the problem worth checking. but others will know more than me.
Title: Re: 24V bad idle and stalling at morning
Post by scorpio_man on Sep 27th, 2009, 12:28pm
hi there

iirc, the edis pack is on/at  the coil pack on the 24v.

hth
Title: Re: 24V bad idle and stalling at morning
Post by einherjar on Sep 27th, 2009, 12:59pm
And what controls the spark on 24V? Only PCM? Or between PCM and ignition coil there is something more?
Title: Re: 24V bad idle and stalling at morning
Post by scorpio_man on Sep 27th, 2009, 1:31pm
hi there

yes, the EDIS pack. ;)

on the 16v engines, it was on the inner wing, but as i said, on the 24v it's at/on the coilpack.

i will have a big multiplug on it.

hth
Title: Re: 24V bad idle and stalling at morning
Post by einherjar on Sep 27th, 2009, 2:50pm
Also, installed old dry spark plugs just now - engine starts with easily, revs was on 1.1K few seconds, then few seconds on normal ~800, then, like before - engine dies.
Title: Re: 24V bad idle and stalling at morning
Post by scorpio_man on Sep 27th, 2009, 4:41pm
hi there

it sounds like you're in limp home mode. is your fuel pump running all the time when you switch on the ignition?

iirc, it will. that would explain the wet plugs.

hth
Title: Re: 24V bad idle and stalling at morning
Post by einherjar on Sep 27th, 2009, 7:50pm

on 09/27/09 at 16:41:15, scorpio_man wrote:
hi there

it sounds like you're in limp home mode. is your fuel pump running all the time when you switch on the ignition?

iirc, it will. that would explain the wet plugs.

hth

Don't know, cause I don't hear working of fuel pump, even in full silence after I just turn ignition "ON". And wet plugs, I think, because I crank my starter many times without firing.
Title: Re: 24V bad idle and stalling at morning
Post by einherjar on Sep 28th, 2009, 10:31am
I'm in confusion. ??? Other mechanic said after listening my story, that problem in scale in compression chambers or on valves, besides old LPG may point to that. And after all, my Cossy have almost 400K km of mileage, so it really may be true. What do you think guys?
Title: Re: 24V bad idle and stalling at morning
Post by einherjar on Nov 2nd, 2009, 8:19am
Flush my injectors with "winns", now it works better, but still misfiring and huge vibrations even on hot engine idle. Put new ignition coil - no effect, still bad engine work on cold and stink of fuel from exhaust. I think some of my injectors are dead. How can I find replacement for them? Don't find injectors specifications
Title: Re: 24V bad idle and stalling at morning
Post by Tekno on Nov 2nd, 2009, 8:31am
Spark plugs wirings in right order?


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