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        General >> Problems >> Gearbox problems
        
(Message started by: mondeoman on Nov 25^th, 2009, 6:43pm)

Title: Gearbox problems
Post by mondeoman on Nov 25^th, 2009, 6:43pm

I did the usual checks before I bought my 2.9 24v M Reg Scorpio and I noticed the gearbox oil was brown with a burnt sort of smell. To cut some of the cost of a repair I've got breakdown insurance. (to claim I need to break down at side of road and call the AA)

My car is now slow to take up the reverse gear (sometimes), and drive. Sometimes I need to give a few revs to get it to engage. The car may drop out of gear briefly several times, but once the car is warm this very rarely happens at moment.

I was just wondering if my gearbox is on it's way out, or if it is some other problem? Why does it not seem to be a problem when warm at the mo?

Cheers,

Mondeoman

Title: Re: Gearbox problems
Post by tonyboy on Nov 25^th, 2009, 6:59pm

Hello if the oil is brown and got a chip pan fat smell it could be on it's way out. If you can take some oil out check see if it's got any black bits in it, if it has the seals are going. Try cleaning your MAF that might make a difference in gear changing............

Title: Re: Gearbox problems
Post by tootman318 on Nov 25^th, 2009, 7:24pm

for the sake of £30 try filter and oil change first. then see whats in old oil!!

Title: Re: Gearbox problems
Post by tonyboy on Nov 25^th, 2009, 7:31pm

http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/aboxfilters.htm ........A link about Autobox service....

Title: Re: Gearbox problems
Post by mondeoman on Nov 25^th, 2009, 8:52pm

I have had the gearbox oil changed when I got the car, despite the suggestion that I would be wasting my time. I have not taken a sample of the oil since then which was about 3 months ago.

Title: Re: Gearbox problems
Post by Scorpio_Mike on Nov 25^th, 2009, 9:02pm

Start looking for a good 2nd hand gearbox...

Title: Re: Gearbox problems
Post by mondeoman on Nov 25^th, 2009, 9:10pm

I'd prefer mine to be reconditioned then I know it is sorted and all the parts inside are in perfect condition etc. I woudln't save much money if I got a reconditioned unit?
Most of the costs involved will be labour for stripping the car down to get at the gearbox?

Title: Re: Gearbox problems
Post by tonyboy on Nov 25^th, 2009, 11:44pm

Give the MAF a clean, see what happens, .........

Title: Re: Gearbox problems
Post by Highlander on Nov 26^th, 2009, 1:07am

on 11/25/09 at 18:43:03, mondeoman wrote:

once the car is warm this very rarely happens at moment.

From that alone I would be looking at replacing the filter, once the oil has warmed up its thinner and will pass through a choked filter easier hence the improvement in running

Title: Re: Gearbox problems
Post by Highlander on Nov 26^th, 2009, 1:15am

on 11/25/09 at 21:10:15, mondeoman wrote:

Its entirely your choice of course but I couldnt justify the expense of buying and fitting a reconditioned gearbox into a Scorpio, you'd likely be spending more than the car is worth.

The Scorpio gearbox can be relatively easily changed compared to a lot of cars BUT before you go changing the box i'd try a filter change

Title: Re: Gearbox problems
Post by Dave2302 on Nov 26^th, 2009, 11:47am

From the symptoms, I'd also make absolutely certain that the fluid level is spot on.

The Engine must be idling in P when you check it or the reading will be nonsense.

HTH

Title: Re: Gearbox problems
Post by tlundkvi on Nov 26^th, 2009, 3:48pm

on 11/25/09 at 21:10:15, mondeoman wrote:

This is the procedure of taking the gearbox to pieces for reconditioning & putting it back together. I think somebody said 2500 to have one reconditioned. To get an idea of how much work is involved.

http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/manual/autotrans/A4LDEoverhaul.pdf

Title: Re: Gearbox problems
Post by mondeoman on Nov 26^th, 2009, 5:23pm

Something must be up as I spoke to an autobox specialist and they suggested the cost of an overhaul would be about £900 and take four days. He knew what was involved as they had done a Scorpio before and commented that the Cosworth is a little bit more involved than the other engines.
I'm puzzled as to why I've been given approx costs which are no where near what you are all expecting. ???

The car is in really good condition other than the gearbox problem, i've waxed oiled it, looking to get 12 spoke alloys etc

Title: Re: Gearbox problems
Post by scorpio_man on Nov 26^th, 2009, 5:37pm

hi there

about £900 is around the correct price.

might be a currency conversion error somewhere.

hth

Title: Re: Gearbox problems
Post by tootman318 on Nov 26^th, 2009, 5:55pm

still a lot of dosh though!!

Title: Re: Gearbox problems
Post by Scorpio_Mike on Nov 26^th, 2009, 6:11pm

Is that £900 just for the recon box or does that also include the labour charge for removing and refitting ???

Title: Re: Gearbox problems
Post by tlundkvi on Nov 26^th, 2009, 6:44pm

£30 per hour sounds cheap (assuming 4 days x 8 hours) so is this labour only or does he know if something is broken/worn too other than what needs to be replaced anyway when taking it apart?

Title: Re: Gearbox problems
Post by mondeoman on Nov 26^th, 2009, 8:58pm

It may be a lot of dosh but the car is worth it is it not, or else why do we have these fantastic things? :D

I've taken out AA breakdown cover to reduce the costs involved when it does need doing.

Title: Re: Gearbox problems
Post by mondeoman on Nov 26^th, 2009, 9:03pm

Well I'm hoping it's for stripping and refitting the autobox. I mention that my oil was black and dirty and the box is on it's way out and how much to strip and repair. He of course doesn't know what will be required until he strips the car so it's an estimated price. :-/

Well I'm having to wait until I need to call out AA for a tow so I can claim on the insurance.
I've had the gearbox problem for about 6 weeks now and I think it might be a while before it finally needs sorting out ::)

I will clean the MAF sensor and check gearbox oil, anyway as it can't hurt?

Title: Re: Gearbox problems
Post by Tons_of_fun on Nov 26^th, 2009, 10:12pm

A dirty MAF has a lot to answer for, believe me. So far every little fault i've had with the cossie has been cured by a quick clean ( dont understand how they get so dirty ). Well worth the 5 mins it takes to do ;)

Title: Re: Gearbox problems
Post by Highlander on Nov 26^th, 2009, 10:50pm

Are you sure your repair insurance covers that??

They normally operate a "wear and tear" policy stating if the milage and age suggest the part may reasonably expected to wear out then its not covered.

I'd double check, is there a limit on the actual claim?

Title: Re: Gearbox problems
Post by adam on Nov 27^th, 2009, 12:40am

Yes, check very carefully what you can and cannot claim.
Remember insurance companys DON'T want to pay out and employe people to enforce this!

Here are the AA T&C's Wear and Tear etc.. (http://www.theaa.com/breakdown-cover/pdfs/breakdown-repair-cover-policy-june-2009.pdf)

Title: Re: Gearbox problems
Post by martin_rowe on Nov 27^th, 2009, 8:55am

sorry worn clutches in the box will be wear & tear, if something actually breaks then they will pay, you will be asked to give authority for the box to be stripped so their engineer can inspect it first. (at your cost)

Title: Re: Gearbox problems
Post by tlundkvi on Nov 27^th, 2009, 9:08am

For reducing your repair cost by £475 of a £900 repair, you will need to destroy the presumably otherwise good gearbox as it apparently have only wear now. Still you may end up with a £100 replacement box from the stack. They pay, they choose.

Some quotes:

"Do I have to keep my car regularly serviced?
Yes. Once You have nominated a vehicle for AA Breakdown Repair Cover then You will need
to keep it serviced in accordance with the manufacturer’s recommendations. Servicing must
be done by a suitable garage business e.g. not a neighbour, friend or family member but
a garage trading business with garage premises. You may be asked to produce evidence of
servicing when You make a claim so be sure to retain Your receipts and invoices."

"1. In order for Your AA Breakdown Repair Cover to apply, the nominated vehicle must:
a) break down as a result of Mechanical or Electrical Failure, and
b) as a result, be prevented from continuing its journey safely, and
c) have been attended by the AA under Your AA Membership, and
d) need the repair or replacement of insured part(s) to enable the journey to be
resumed or, if applicable, commenced."

"Cover does not include the following:
1. the first £25 of each claim;
2. the VAT content of any claim where You are VAT registered;
3. Mechanical or Electrical defects occurring prior to the purchase of this cover;
4. defects You knew or ought reasonably to have known about prior to the
commencement of the journey on which the Mechanical or Electrical Failure occurred;
5. any defects reported to or by the AA patrol, or AA appointed garage agent, that are not
connected to the initial cause of breakdown;
6. modifications and/or alterations to manufacturer’s original specification;
7. any other defects identified by Your repairing garage not connected to the initial cause
of the breakdown;
8. any defects due to the poor maintenance of the vehicle, including cambelt failure
and any consequential damage, when it cannot be established that the belt has been
changed in accordance with the manufacturer’s recommendations;
9. any defects referred to a garage prior to AA attendance under Your AA Membership;
10. Wear and Tear, unless it has caused an insured part to suffer a Mechanical or Electrical
Failure;"

Title: Re: Gearbox problems
Post by Chieftain on Nov 27^th, 2009, 10:56am

I briefly had htis AA insurance then read the small print and found out that as I do all my own servicing (almost) then I am not eligible so cancelled it. They contacted me recently to ask why and tried to talk me back into it, even telling me that Kwik fit is an acceptable garage to have ALL work done in line with the policy. To keep to thier conditions I can not even change brake pads or engine oil. So for me not worth it. They also want a lot of paper evidence on servicing.

Title: Re: Gearbox problems
Post by exaktaman on Nov 27^th, 2009, 12:01pm

Buying a second hand box is almost always a gamble. I've been quote £900 (by a company down south) for a rebuild and fully bench tested with 12months/12000 miles warranty.
If the car has no other problems and everything else works and you intend to keep it for a reasonable length of time then IMHO get the rebuild done.

Title: Re: Gearbox problems
Post by Simmo on Nov 27^th, 2009, 12:42pm

on 11/27/09 at 12:01:37, exaktaman wrote:

Buying a second hand box is almost always a gamble. I've been quote £900 (by a company down south) for a rebuild and fully bench tested with 12months/12000 miles warranty.
.

It may be helpful to others if you were able to indicate the company concerned. ;)

Title: Re: Gearbox problems
Post by Highlander on Nov 27^th, 2009, 9:38pm

on 11/27/09 at 12:01:37, exaktaman wrote:

Its ALWAYS a gamble but if you can do the work yourself you can pick up a box for £50 easily enough so it just costs you time.

All down to personal preferance and finances I suppose

But is your Scorpio really going to last another 100,000 miles?

Title: Re: Gearbox problems
Post by exaktaman on Nov 28^th, 2009, 12:01am

'Stephens Engineering Auto Trans Specialists' - as recommended by Honest John - whoever he is!
(Sorry, but I wasn't sure whether it was allowed to mention names.) They have, at least, a very interesting web site.
Exaktaman

Title: Re: Gearbox problems
Post by Scorpio_Mike on Nov 28^th, 2009, 9:42am

Got to agree with Highlander - a fully reconditioned box should last 100k + miles - which is probably longer than most of our Scorpios will last anyway.
Remember most recon autoboxes only have 12 months warranty at best - worth checking what you are being offered.
Personally I would go for a 2nd hand gearbox - check the colour of the ATF - if it's a good cherry pink colour it's worth a risk I reckon.
My 2.3 auto has just gone over 142k, original box as far as I know - ATF is a pale brown colour but still works perfectly OK...as an insurance policy I picked up a spare from a local chap who was breaking a late Scorpio 2.3 - a 98k car but the ATF was a good colour so for £30 I took a gamble and stashed it in the shed as a spare.

Title: Re: Gearbox problems
Post by Simmo on Nov 28^th, 2009, 10:00am

on 11/28/09 at 00:01:09, exaktaman wrote:

'Stephens Engineering Auto Trans Specialists' - as recommended by Honest John - whoever he is!
(

Honest John is the chap who writes a page in the Telegraph on Saturdays and whose advice is sought on many matters motoring.

Title: Re: Gearbox problems
Post by Simmo on Nov 28^th, 2009, 10:04am

on 11/28/09 at 09:42:23, Scorpio_Mike wrote:

I took a gamble and stashed it in the shed as a spare.

::) ::) ::) How did you get it in there ;D (I've seen the shed!!)

Title: Re: Gearbox problems
Post by gozz on Nov 28^th, 2009, 10:24am

on 11/28/09 at 10:04:56, Simmo wrote:

::) ::) ::) How did you get it in there ;D (I've seen the shed!!)

Perhaps he installed a mezanine since you were last there Simmo,or maybe Aladdin crept round there with his lamp ;D
GOZZ.

Title: Re: Gearbox problems
Post by mondeoman on Nov 28^th, 2009, 4:15pm

Well I've cleaned the MAF sensor which did not appear dirty, so need to check oil level tomorrow.

This morning it was quite cold outside and the car stalled when I first tried to engage reverse gear. I started the engine again and it went into gear this time after a few revs.

Title: Re: Gearbox problems
Post by Scorpio_Mike on Nov 28^th, 2009, 4:31pm

on 11/28/09 at 10:04:56, Simmo wrote:

::) ::) ::) How did you get it in there ;D (I've seen the shed!!)

Always room for car spares ;D

Title: Re: Gearbox problems
Post by mondeoman on Nov 28^th, 2009, 4:34pm

My car is not for spares, it's my pride and joy. 8)