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        General >> Problems >> steering wheel movement whilst braking
        
(Message started by: mondeoman on Feb 28th, 2010, 9:34am)
Title: steering wheel movement whilst braking
Post by mondeoman on Feb 28th, 2010, 9:34am
Hi,

I've noticed recently that when I brake at speeds of approx 50mph and above I get left and right shaking on the steering wheel. I was wondering what everyone's thoughts are for the cause?

Unfortunately I have to drive up the kerb every day at work onto the grass which could have caused this problem  :-/

I have a very nice set of 12 spoke alloys but won't put them on whilst I am working where I do as they are in mint condition!

Could it be one of the bushes has gone or wheel balance?
:-/

Cheers,

Mondeoman  ::)
Title: Re: steering wheel movement whilst braking
Post by Scorpio_Mike on Feb 28th, 2010, 9:53am
Could be warped discs or worn bushes or track-rod ends  ???
Title: Re: steering wheel movement whilst braking
Post by gost on Feb 28th, 2010, 11:18am
I had the same problem a few weeks ago, new discs and pads plus a couple of bushes cured it
Title: Re: steering wheel movement whilst braking
Post by mondeoman on Feb 28th, 2010, 12:45pm
Anyway of telling if the discs are warped as I don't want to spend money on stuff which I don't need?

I guess if I get it up on the ramps it will be easy to tell if bushes or track rod ends are broken?
Title: Re: steering wheel movement whilst braking
Post by NormanHall on Feb 28th, 2010, 5:39pm
I fitted brakemaster discs to the front only 12k miles ago and with going through all this water with hot discs they are now giving me the same problem you have, they are only 12 quid each.
Title: Re: steering wheel movement whilst braking
Post by Tekno on Mar 1st, 2010, 9:47am
I had exact same problem. Changed discs = no help, bleeded brakes = no help, changed front calipers = everything fine!
Title: Re: steering wheel movement whilst braking
Post by mondeoman on Mar 7th, 2010, 3:58pm
I've had the car checked over and a wheel bearing needs replacing as the wheel has some movement as well as a new set of pads.

I wonder if this will cause the wobble or if their is something else causing it?
Title: Re: steering wheel movement whilst braking
Post by PJDavis on Mar 7th, 2010, 6:00pm
I wonder if it's just the wheels that need a balance?   Big wheels notoriously give a shake at around the speed you are talking about when badly balanced.   If the car doesn't do it at 60+ mph, or 40 mph I would be putting my money on the balance.

Peter
Title: Re: steering wheel movement whilst braking
Post by Pjot on Mar 8th, 2010, 12:49am
It can`t be the balance of the tires. If the tires are out of balance the shaking would be regardless of braking or not. It is most likely bad disc or stuck calipers.
Title: Re: steering wheel movement whilst braking
Post by PJDavis on Mar 8th, 2010, 8:24pm
Pjot.   Perhaps you are right.   However, my 12 spoke wheels gave exactly these symptoms and were found to be only balanced on the inside of the rims.   Out of balance wheels prevently show when braking, or under hard acceleration.   Never say it CAN'T be such and such unless you are absolutely sure!   Many years ago I have done a nine month course at the Dunlop factory, wheel balance can be the cause of many problems, shaking CAN be just certain speed related.   Especially because of the size of wheel.

Peter
Title: Re: steering wheel movement whilst braking
Post by scorpio_man on Mar 8th, 2010, 8:26pm
hi there

you can get the wheels balanced only on the inside rim. it's called static balancing.

hth
Title: Re: steering wheel movement whilst braking
Post by PJDavis on Mar 8th, 2010, 8:38pm
Aye, but 'static-balancing' is next to useless!   Dynamic balancing is really the ONLY way to get the right balance between tyre and wheel!   A lot of people don't realise that when balancing a wheel, you are NOT actually balancing the wheel.   You are in reality balancing the new tyre to the rim that it is fitted to.   The Wheel should already be in perfect straight condition, a real good true workshop would take your bare wheel and check that it is straight first, and make sure it was balanced.   Then balance your new tyre onto that wheel allowing for the previous setting of the rim balance.   Alternatively you get get an individual 'on-car' balance, that would allow for your suspension and steering adjustments as well.   I only remember all this because of old, wheels of all sorts need to be balanced.   I used to balance Locomotive wheels that weighed a good few tons, but early on in my apprenticeship I balanced car wheels on an old 'Hoffman' balancer.

Peter
Title: Re: steering wheel movement whilst braking
Post by Jonnycab on Mar 9th, 2010, 3:04am
Violent shaking of the steering when braking at speed (the faster you are going, the heavier it shakes) is in my experience, due to warped discs  :)
Title: Re: steering wheel movement whilst braking
Post by Tons_of_fun on Mar 9th, 2010, 12:55pm
Im with JC on this one  ;). As for wheel balancing, there are some companys that do 'on car' balancing  :o. I had my Range Rover done with this method as standard balancing couldnt get rid of a wheel wobble at 70 mph. The difference it made was huge  ;D. Not cheap though. Around £20 per corner  :-/
Title: Re: steering wheel movement whilst braking
Post by PJDavis on Mar 9th, 2010, 2:14pm

on 03/09/10 at 03:04:34, Jonnycab wrote:
Violent shaking of the steering when braking at speed (the faster you are going, the heavier it shakes) is in my experience, due to warped discs  :)

Yep you're right JC, but I didn't see anywhere mentioned about the faster and heavier bit! ;)
Title: Re: steering wheel movement whilst braking
Post by Highlander on Mar 9th, 2010, 2:28pm
wishbone balljoints and bushes too ;)
Title: Re: steering wheel movement whilst braking
Post by Jonnycab on Mar 10th, 2010, 9:13am

on 03/09/10 at 14:14:22, PJDavis wrote:
Yep you're right JC, but I didn't see anywhere mentioned about the faster and heavier bit! ;)


The speed of 50mph & above was mentioned, although it wasn't mentioned that the shaking when braking got heavier at a higher speed (which it will if the discs are warped), I was just implying that this would be the case  ;)

Mondeoman...do you know what brand of discs you have fitted, as some cheap brands tend to be prone to warping. I've personally had problems with 'Apec' discs before on two occasions & they were very cheap....about £10 a disc if I remember rightly  :)
Title: Re: steering wheel movement whilst braking
Post by mondeoman on Apr 1st, 2010, 9:25am
Sorry for long time before reply, but I've had the car in the garage for service and MOT etc and hoped they would solve the problem, but they have not!

They found the rear discs are warped which have been replaced, but the ones on the front are like new and they believe are perfectly ok. I still have the steering wheel wobble and they have suggested a couple of possible causes:

They have advised me that the front bottom arm bushes appear to be soft, not split

They think all the shockers are soft, but they passed the MOT!

Not wanting to keep spending money replacing parts which are not at fault, anybody have further ideas to the cause?

The wobble is worst around the 56mph mark but is also present at higher speeds. When the car decreases below 56mph the problem seems to go away
Title: Re: steering wheel movement whilst braking
Post by PJDavis on Apr 1st, 2010, 10:08am
Your last post rules out my first thought of wheel balance.   I would be looking at those soft bushes for a start.   Funny how it present at higher speeds as well as 56 mph.   One question you could ask yourself, is this wobble more prevalent when you brake, (weight on the suspension) or when you accelerate, (weight off the suspension) that may help the diagnostic.
Title: Re: steering wheel movement whilst braking
Post by mondeoman on Apr 1st, 2010, 11:15am
Oh, it's caused when you brake, not with acceleration etc
Title: Re: steering wheel movement whilst braking
Post by scorpio_man on Apr 1st, 2010, 11:29am
hi there

replacing the front discs and pads is easier than changing the bushes.

ebay do good deals on the mintex range.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/FORD-SCORPIO-94-98-2-3-BRAKE-DISC-PAD-KIT-MINTEX_W0QQitemZ180435345367QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item2a02c8dfd7

hth
Title: Re: steering wheel movement whilst braking
Post by mondeoman on Apr 2nd, 2010, 2:15am
But if the discs are fine which garage claim, then I would be wasting my money on discs?

How likely is it that the bushes are causing this problem? I've had them go on my old Mondeo and the car's steering wheel would pull in one direction, but this problem is a shaking from left to right quickly.

The front discs are only two years old and have done very little miles in that time (approx 8K)
I've been quoted approx £110+VAT for new bushes

Anything else cause this, or as these the only likely culprits, the bushes or front discs?
Title: Re: steering wheel movement whilst braking
Post by scorpio_man on Apr 2nd, 2010, 3:07am
hi there

re the price. is that including fitting them as the rear bush was about £20 each?

i personally don't agree with just changing the bushes. i did it when i had my car and the ball joint failed very shortly afterwards, so had to do the job again.

other will have different opinions.

re the brakes. they could still be warped even after a short time/mileage. take a wheel off and using a nail, hold it very close to the disc using the carrier as a rest. spin the disc and check the disc for trueness. if it hits the nail, then they're warped.

remember it doesn't take a lot of movement to give you the shakes at high speed.

hth
Title: Re: steering wheel movement whilst braking
Post by mondeoman on Apr 4th, 2010, 7:01pm
The garage have supposedly check the discs on the front and they are fine.
The cost for the bushes did include fitting, so I did not think that price was to much. This shaking to me does suggest warp discs as I had this on the Mondeo once, but I'm not an expert.

I just want to be sure I solve the issue once and for all.

What's everybody's view on here should I replace front discs which seem ok by the garage, or replace th bushes?
Title: Re: steering wheel movement whilst braking
Post by lleewar on Apr 4th, 2010, 11:36pm
Hi I would do as Scorpio man suggests re the discs and check for trueness. Unless you trust your garage, this small test will see if they have actually checked them, proving them wrong or right.
You can at the same time, while the wheels are off, check the bushes, any movement and they are shot. As for the replacement price for the bushes, your garge is literally charging you 90 quid to fit them which I think is excessive. You could do both yourself in under an hour saving a hell of a lot    Lee
Title: Re: steering wheel movement whilst braking
Post by scorpsteve on Apr 14th, 2010, 8:36pm
hi guys just thought id mention it i had the same problem steering shaking under braking just had the discs checked to see if they are true and they are spot on.
ive got new wish bones and bushes to do on monday so will let you know if it cures it.
Title: Re: steering wheel movement whilst braking
Post by mondeoman on Apr 14th, 2010, 10:07pm
Oh yes please let me know as I've not had chance with work etc to get the discs checked out again.


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