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        General >> Problems >> Locked out of a 95 Ultima
        
(Message started by: brooksie on Mar 9^th, 2010, 9:49am)

Title: Locked out of a 95 Ultima
Post by brooksie on Mar 9^th, 2010, 9:49am

Hi. I'm new to the forum. I can't get in to my Ultima using either the fob (battery OK) or the second black key. I don't have a red key.

Maybe both locks need replacing as the fob key is never used for manual door opening and I don't think it is worn out?

I suspect the battery is flat and also that I may need to strip and dry out the fuse box.

I have removed the engine protection tray and I can just reach the lower of the alternator terminals (by feel only). I may be able to attach a small crocodile clip and wire to it and recharge the battery that way.

I don't have a full wiring diagram so I cannot tell which of the two alternator terminals goes directly to the battery or if either does and I don't want to cause more damage.

I would be grateful for any help on the subject as I also want to remove both door panels to inspect the locking mechanism.

Thanks
Brooksie

Title: Re: Locked out of a 95 Ultima
Post by Highlander on Mar 9^th, 2010, 11:05am

Hello and Welcome :)

Snoopy can give you instructions on how to gain entry without breaking anything (ex car thief allegedly) ;)

What engine have you got? Depending on the engine type it is sometimes possible to reach up and pull the bonnet catch cable.

The door locks seize up if they dont get used, i never use the fob on mine, always the key for this reason.

What I've done in the past is use WD40 in the door lock and spend half an hour wiggling it, never been beaten yet! ;)

Title: Re: Locked out of a 95 Ultima
Post by brooksie on Mar 9^th, 2010, 5:07pm

Hi and thanks for the info.

The engine is 2.3 and I'm glad to say that I have now managed to get access. I tried opening the boot which worked and fortunately the small split seat was not locked in position so I could crawl through. :)

I then attempted to boost the battery via another car and the alarm sounded and the fob wouldn't disarm it. In a panic I tried to start the car and the was insufficient charge in the battery. I hope I haven't done any permanent damage as the speedo and rev counter are now stuck over at full scale.

The battery has had it (initial charge 2002) and I hope to fit a replacement tomorrow and get the car going.

I will try the WD 40 with perseverance and hope to get the locks working again. I still intend to strip the fusebox though.

Title: Re: Locked out of a 95 Ultima
Post by Snoopy on Mar 10^th, 2010, 7:44am

Once into the car its relatively easy job .. Get a new battery fitted and don't loos the small lack lead to the battery it can sometimes drop down behind the bulk head. When the new battery is fitted re-programme the remote from the instructions on the main site and then disarm the alarm by locking and unlocking the doors.. Then try tpo start the car the dials should eventually spin back to the correct place IF not I have heard a good what on the top of the dash sometimes does the trick... All the other things will have to be reset the windows and the trip meeter etc etc all
on the main site ... good luck

REMOTE (http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/remote.htm)

The windows just need to be held in the up position for a few seconds to reset the "One touch " feature.

Title: Re: Locked out of a 95 Ultima
Post by brooksie on Mar 10^th, 2010, 6:24pm

Hi and thanks for the info.
Just what I needed.

Title: Re: Locked out of a 95 Ultima
Post by Highlander on Mar 10^th, 2010, 7:55pm

If you hold the odometer reset button in for a few seconds you will do an instrument reset.

when the igniton is next turned on the dials all turn fully clockwise then return to normal.

If you thump the dash just as they are due to return from the fully clockwise position they should dislodge and come back

Title: Re: Locked out of a 95 Ultima
Post by Snoopy on Mar 11^th, 2010, 8:05am

OH and one other thing The right hand side of the bulk head (WHEN LOOKING INTO THE CAR FROM THE FRONT) (http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/battery.htm) detaches from the car to facilitate the removal of the battery .... It just requires the removal of the rubber strip and the section of bulkhead lifts of its offset clips

Title: Re: Locked out of a 95 Ultima
Post by brooksie on Mar 12^th, 2010, 6:26pm

Sorry but I need more help I'm afraid. :(

I took the old battery out and recharged it and it seemed to hold OK over two days. I also cleared away the build up of damp leaves around both fuse boxes which probably channelled the rain in.

When I reinstalled the battery the alarm sounded immediately and cycled on-off for a while. Strangely enough I could start the engine and also the speedo and rev counter returned to normal. The horn eventually stopped but all four indicators continued to flash for a while and they too went off.

I reprogrammed the Fob and it made the appropriate sounds in the right sequence. I had previously checked the batteries (2.9v). However the Fob will not now activate central locking/alarm where it did previously.

I can lock the doors with the key but still cannot unlock them in spite of copious amounts of WD 40 and silicone oil.

The car stars and drives OK. :)

Any suggestions would gratefully received. ???

Title: Re: Locked out of a 95 Ultima
Post by Technology2005 on Mar 12^th, 2010, 7:51pm

2.9V is actually a bit low for a CR2016 battery. Although nominally 3V you would usually get 3.05 - 3.25V from one. In my work as a computer engineer I would chuck out any CR2032 batteries (similar to the CR2016's) below 3V as they would typically be insufficient for their intended use at that level.

I'd suggest trying fresh batteries in the fob (if you haven't already replaced them as advised by Snoopy) and reprogram and then see how you get on...

David

Title: Re: Locked out of a 95 Ultima
Post by Snoopy on Mar 12^th, 2010, 8:29pm

IT sounds as though either the locks or key(s) are badly worn. Any ford scorpio type ke will LOCK ANY ford car but will not open it. try getting just a new key cut. NOt one with the transponder in it just a basic key and see if that works the locks. otherwise get a lock kit and rebuild the locks. Not difficult and fully described on the main web site.

I agree with the battery scenario they do need to be in tip top condition and as soon as they start to drop off they loose range and effectiveness worth trying a couple of brand new ones IMHO

Title: Re: Locked out of a 95 Ultima
Post by gozz on Mar 12^th, 2010, 9:56pm

brooksie.
Have you got two CR2016 batteries in series in your fob ? thus making 6 volts.If the programming made the right noises I would have thought it should lock the doors though.You can of course buy them from internet sites for a fraction of the price charged by motorist's shops.If your key is badly worn,theoretically it should not work in the ignition lock either,therefore either the door locks are faulty,or if the car is new to you it possibly has non matching locks whereby another key may have been used.When you turn to the unlock position,if the key travels the same distance as the lock position,then the barrel is operating but not operating the lock,if not then there is obviously a key/lock fault.
GOZZ.

Title: Re: Locked out of a 95 Ultima
Post by brooksie on Mar 13^th, 2010, 6:48pm

Hi.
Thanks for the info.

I have plenty of spare batteries and will replace the existing ones. The locks and keys are as originally supplied with the car when new.

Neither the Fob key nor the spare key will deactivate either lock mechanically. The keys do not travel the same distance in the unlocking mode as they do in the locking one and come up against a dead end with no give. I intend to remove the lock from the passenger side door and presumably doing this and dismantling the lock will show me what the problem is? ???

But first I have started to remove the battery side fusebox for stripping, as I believe that it sustained water ingress via a build up of leaves during our recent monsoon season (the problems seem to start from that period). In any event it will remove one unknown from the equation and will make me happier. :)

Title: Re: Locked out of a 95 Ultima
Post by Simmo on Mar 13^th, 2010, 8:48pm

The details of how to re-build the lock are Here (http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/doorlockbld.htm) and the procedure for replacing the lock is obtained by clicking on the 'button' on the left hand side of the page. As you read through the 'replace' page you will find that you have to bend open an access flap in order to get at the third bolt. You can, once the box is out, snap it off if you wish. If not when you replace the cover you MUST push the flap back fully or the window mechanism will foul it and you'll need to undo everything again!! in order to resolve it.
It sounds as though the key may be at fault so it may be worth having a new key cut and try that before doing anything further.

Title: Re: Locked out of a 95 Ultima
Post by brooksie on Mar 15^th, 2010, 9:24pm

Hi. Thanks again for all the help.
I stripped and re-assembled the battery side fusebox. There was a small amount of water in the bottom housing but who knows if it trickled through from the fuses/relays top face. ???

I couldn't find any evidence of moisture in the intervening layers. There were a quite a few particles of leaves and insects and that fell out but not from within the layers themselves.

I haven't reinstalled the battery yet as I then started on removing the passenger side door lock. I would have completed that too as all I had to do was to remove the circlip from the end of the barrel in order to remove the lever, and couldn't find any circlip pliers.

In the meantime does anyone know the correct order of the sockets that plug in the bottom of the fuse box .???

I didn't get a very good photo as I started to unplug them and then only those on the side nearest the wheel (see 001).

I have reconnected them as shown in 002 (side nearest the wheel) and 003 (side nearest the battery). This from a combination of the original photo, what fits and the length of the cables.

I am not to good with cable colours as I am one of the 10% of men who are colour blind to some degree. It would be great if I could get confirmation before I reconnect the battery though!

Sorry, but I having trouble in inserting/attaching the photos if that is possible/allowable? I've tried using "insert image"

Title: Re: Locked out of a 95 Ultima
Post by tonyboy on Mar 15^th, 2010, 9:43pm

All the connectors are different, so each conector should fit in it's own socket......... http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/fusebox2.htm

Title: Re: Locked out of a 95 Ultima
Post by Snoopy on Mar 16^th, 2010, 8:23am

Brooksie see HERE for On how to post pictures (http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=admin;action=display;num=1268569404)

Title: Re: Locked out of a 95 Ultima
Post by brooksie on Mar 18^th, 2010, 8:49am

Got the door lock off and it catches when you turn the key. I stripped it anyway as I've ordered the lock building kit (now £45 from a Ford main dealer). In stripping it I destroyed the white nylon plug locator as I expected to. Otherwise it was well lubricated, with its original grease still there, in spite of being doused with WD 40

Basically the lock problem emanates from wear but not from the key, as the spare key is in an as new condition. The locking pin is hard and the wafers are relatively so, but the aluminium alloy barrel, plug and nylon plug locator are not. The play between the barrel and plug, is a mite too much and are unmachined; just relying on the precision of the castings. But the real culprit is probably the white nylon plug locator. IMO, wear in the plug locator which acts as a rear bearing for the plug, allows it to go offline sufficiently to allow the locking pin to jam. What a pity, for a few more quid the locks could have been made to last the life of the car.

With regard to the correct location of the fusebox sockets; unfortunately at least one of them can fit in two locations. There is a blue socket which will plug into the third pin box from the engine end, both on the wheel side and opposite on the battery side.

By printing my original dismantling photo to A4 size I can in fact see (as its not dark red, green or brown!) that the blue plug resides in the battery side pin box.

Title: Re: Locked out of a 95 Ultima
Post by gozz on Mar 18^th, 2010, 9:34am

brooksie.
I had an ignition lock kit from FMD last week,it was £15,it fits many Fords,I wondered if the door lock kit is specifically Scorpio hence such a silly price differential.
Regarding your observation on the lock lasting the life of the car,I don't think these were ever intended to last more than ten years,and it must be a great disappointment to Ford,but of course they are attempting parts obsolescence,thereby ensuring only the determined can keep them running ::)
GOZZ.

Title: Re: Locked out of a 95 Ultima
Post by Simmo on Mar 19^th, 2010, 9:43am

on 03/18/10 at 09:34:29, gozz wrote:

brooksie.
I had an ignition lock kit from FMD last week,it was £15,it fits many Fords,.

That is a much more realistic price and about what I paid. ;)

Title: Re: Locked out of a 95 Ultima
Post by brooksie on Apr 1^st, 2010, 5:08pm

Some good and some bad happenings. I've only just got around to building and fitting the door lock due to other commitments and maybe the time lag has lead me to making errors - memory not being so good as it once was. What a pig of a job, it took me ages to re-attach the central locking switch to the lock barrel, due to the extremely limited access. I got out of sequence with this and had to take the activating lever off again thereby losing another circlip.

Anyway the lock worked mechanically OK, before reconnecting the battery. However as soon as I did this the alarm sounded and subsequently every time I reconnected the battery. Is this suppose to happen? If not, is there any way of resetting the alarm as it's upsetting my neighbours. The same thing happened when I first used jump leads on the flat battery as I previously described. The horn and indicators appear to stop within the prescribed limits though.

I can run the engine but the lights, indicators and wipers etc are not working. I checked the relevant fuses in the Central fuse box and all are OK. However there is no voltage present at these fuses which makes my rebuilding /reconnecting the sockets of the Auxilliary fuse box the prime suspect. There is full battery voltage present at one pin of each of fuses II & III and on both sides of fuse I in the Auxilliary box. All three of these fuses are sound.

I photographed each layer of the fuse box before removing it and marked and put each layer and its tracks in separate bags. It went back together OK so I think the problem may well lie in the reconnecting of the sockets as I described previously.

Before I make any changes though, does anyone have any ideas as to which socket error it could be. i.e which one feeds the Central fuse box fuses I have mentioned? Failing that could someone put me in touch with the relevant wiring diagrams for that area?

I reprogrammed the fob and its signal is now received by the car whereas originally it wasn't. However there are some problems.

Firstly the instrument panel indicates that the passenger side door is not shut (the one with the new lock) although visually it appears to be. When I close this door the central locking operates automatically. I can open this door manually by keeping the key held in the manual unlock position (fully clockwise) and simultaneously pulling on the door. When I activate the remote locking/unlocking it just cycles through the sequence, maybe because the passenger door is not registering shut. When the cycling is finished all doors are locked and I can only open the passenger door with the key as previously described.

I am pleased that the fob radio link appears to be working again but any ideas what is giving rise to the problem with the door not indicating as being fully closed etc. Is there a door switch that signals this?

As always, I would be most grateful fo any pointers/wiring diagram info.

Title: Re: Locked out of a 95 Ultima
Post by Simmo on Apr 2^nd, 2010, 3:07am

The wiring diagrams are Here (http://www.drich2422.ukfsn.org/SCORPIO_WIRING%20DIAGRAMS/)

Title: Re: Locked out of a 95 Ultima
Post by gozz on Apr 2^nd, 2010, 5:40am

There is a little,usually white,plastic switch on the back of the lock,it just clips into the metal lock body with tags as part of the switch,these tags frequently break off thus the switch does not contact the lock giving the system 'door open' state.
GOZZ.

Title: Re: Locked out of a 95 Ultima
Post by brooksie on Apr 2^nd, 2010, 8:23pm

Hi guys thanks for the info - brilliant.

I have cured Central fusebox problem. The more I thought about it, the more I thought it must be the multiplug out of position, which I had read about elsewhere on the site, and which would have given rise to the symptons. I had unclipped this to check for moisture (due to remote locking problem) and had sprayed it with contact cleaner. Sure enough it was!

I will certainly recheck the door switch/lock engagement again, as purposely I have not refitted the door panel. I did have a lot of difficulty reclipping the door switch back onto the lock barrel.

Thanks again.

Title: Re: Locked out of a 95 Ultima
Post by brooksie on Apr 20^th, 2010, 9:45am

Nearly there! Everything working again - central locking etc. However the passenger side door still shows the door ajar on the AWS when it clearly is not. Could this be the Door Ajar switch needs sorting/replacing? Procedure 33 507 0 shows removal and reinstall but no info on what it looks like or its modus operandi, but refers to procedure 41 351 0, which search has failed to find.

Title: Re: Locked out of a 95 Ultima
Post by brooksie on Apr 20^th, 2010, 10:35am

Oops, I have now found out that the door ajar switch contacts are shared with the central locking, which is now working normally and not cycling as it was before. These contacts should be closed when the door is fully shut. So when I get around to it I will check if this is the case via the door switch multiplug and wiring diagrams link that was kindly provided (apparently across BN & BN/YE wires). Otherwise could it be that something in the CCM is out of kilter?

Title: Re: Locked out of a 95 Ultima
Post by Mike H on Apr 20^th, 2010, 2:05pm

Suggest intially go for door switch. (?) May just be bad contact.

Is also what the alarm uses I believe.

Title: Re: Locked out of a 95 Ultima
Post by Mike H on Apr 20^th, 2010, 2:06pm

I say that but of course it's all done by the same thing, the computer ;D