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        General >> Problems >> 2,3 engine doesn't run
        
(Message started by: nobbel on Mar 20^th, 2010, 7:17pm)

Title: 2,3 engine doesn't run
Post by nobbel on Mar 20^th, 2010, 7:17pm

Hi,
I parked my 2,3 (1997) on monday noon. On tuesday morning I tried to start - nothing. The starter ran like hell, but no firing. A check in the afternoon showed no ignition at all. I checked all electrical connections, replaced the camshaft-sensor, pulled out some relevant fuses: nothing. Both fuse compartments are dry. Then I pulled the cable of the crankshaft-sensor, the connector was really clean, put it on again, tried to start and - the engine ran like a bag full of nuts and bolts for two minutes an then fine. A system-check gave no results. The engine worked good for two days. Today in the morning I started the engine and it ran only at idle-speed, misfiring all the time so that I feared, it would kill the engine. Afterwards: no chance to start, no ignition at all. Where should I search?????
>:( >:( >:(

Title: Re: 2,3 engine doesn't run
Post by Kenboy on Mar 21^st, 2010, 7:24am

Hi Similar thing happened to me a while ago, take off the Rocker cover and look at the condition of fuel cut off loom and coil packs, gets extremely hot in that area causing wire and wire insulation break down, good luck.

Kenboy

Title: Re: 2,3 engine doesn't run
Post by solarpanel on Mar 22^nd, 2010, 8:24pm

coil packs

Title: Re: 2,3 engine doesn't run
Post by Mike Holmes on Mar 26^th, 2010, 12:20pm

And / or alternatively, spark plugs extremely worn i.e. virtually no electrodes left so huge gaps. Yes can be that simple, several people have been caught out like that! ;D

Title: Re: 2,3 engine doesn't run
Post by Mike Holmes on Mar 26^th, 2010, 12:23pm

PS: notwithstanding coil packs wiring is deffo something that needs checking out.

Title: Re: 2,3 engine doesn't run
Post by nobbel on Mar 27^th, 2010, 12:48pm

It was the camshaft-sensor. It was corrodet inside under a connecting pin, so it gave contact or not or a little bit. Replaced and good.
Thanks for help.
nobbel

Title: Re: 2,3 engine doesn't run
Post by Mike Holmes on Mar 27^th, 2010, 1:02pm

A-ha!! That as well then ;D

Well done that man.

Title: Re: 2,3 engine doesn't run
Post by nobbel on Mar 28^th, 2010, 3:46pm

Gnihihi :D, that wasn't all! In the afternoon I went out to clean the car. It was raining and it was raining cats and dogs. Reaching a nearby traffic circuit (that circular road, I mean), the engine quit service. Nice place for standing in the rain, a lot of cars behind and no chance for them to pass me by. Someone helped me to roll the car to the side. I waited for my wife to bring me a rope, tried to start the engine after 15 minutes - ran like bag with nuts and bolts and not more than idle. The action took round about 1 hour. Just before getting towed I tried again to start the engine - and drove home. Nice. Today morning again the bag with nuts and bolts. I checked the right fuse box and somme connectors - the engine ran a little bit better, backfiring all the time. Then I replaced the ignition coils by other old ones - problem solved. Engine runs (today. Tomorrow I will try it again with a cold engine. As I see it, there were two mistakes. At first the crankshaft-sensor and second the ignition coil. We will see and I will report.
nobbel

Title: Re: 2,3 engine doesn't run
Post by Mike Holmes on Mar 29^th, 2010, 10:22am

Yes coils and HT connections tend not to like damp. ;D So makes sense. In the light of all that I would also go through eveything else as well just to be sure

Title: Re: 2,3 engine doesn't run
Post by nobbel on Mar 29^th, 2010, 11:32am

Hi, today it starts well, runs good in idle and at higher RPM. No backfiring at all.
Only problem: when I suddenly accelerate. That's what the engine doesn't like. Someone told me to check all the rubber lines for cracks and so. I will do so.

Title: Re: 2,3 engine doesn't run
Post by Mike Holmes on Mar 30^th, 2010, 9:21am

At risk of repeating myself, what state are the spark plugs in? This all still tends to point towards worn out plugs (hardly any electrodes left hence huge gaps)

Title: Re: 2,3 engine doesn't run
Post by nobbel on Mar 30^th, 2010, 9:58am

;D They look good, 12-15000 miles old. I found ot, that the wiring of the idle control valve (situated on the air intake box) was bad. I isolated the wires with tape and the engine ran well and accelerated fine. A test run (after having changed the wheels for summer) showed no problems. But that will not show the truth, because I have to wait till tomorrow morning when the engine is totally cold (northern germany!!) and probably moist. See you tomorrow.
nobbel

Title: Re: 2,3 engine doesn't run
Post by nobbel on Apr 2^nd, 2010, 8:10pm

Yes, yes, yes, I've got it! Even after a cold and moist night the engine starts and runs and accelerates and doesn't backfire at all. Resume: one crankshaft-sensor, one (or two?) ignition coils and two cables (or so) that was it.
By the way: after that the main power-line from the generator at my wife's car quit service. The connector consisted only of lot of rust and broke into 3 pieces when I tried to get it off. To clamp the connector to the cable ist a hard work for a man having muscles like a sparrow making a fist. And my wife's Escort (115tmiles) is back on the road again.
happy easter days
nobbel

Title: Re: 2,3 engine doesn't run
Post by Mike Holmes on Apr 3^rd, 2010, 11:20am

Well done that man. ;D

Twice!

Title: Re: 2,3 engine doesn't run
Post by nobbel on Apr 4^th, 2010, 3:20pm

Thanks, many thanks.
By the way: wherefrom does the rpm-meter receive its signals? Between 2000 and 3500 rpm the needle tend to move a little bit up an down, just by 2-300 rpm. It is not the clutch in the 3rd and 4th gear because the engine noise doesn't change at all. And it is the same way with 3 different automatic gears I had in the past times (the original having problems, one bought at **bay in worst condition and one from my last scorpio which ist still working good with clear oil and 140000mls).
Might be an instrument mistake I guess or what else?

Tomorrow I will care about the worn cable of the idle-valve. I think that will make the gremlins disappear.
nobbel

Title: Re: 2,3 engine doesn't run
Post by Tompion on Apr 4^th, 2010, 4:29pm

Probably the torque converter locking - drops a few hundred revs when it locks & unlocks when the load reaches a certain point.

Title: Re: 2,3 engine doesn't run
Post by Mike Holmes on Apr 6^th, 2010, 12:37pm

How does it do that?

Title: Re: 2,3 engine doesn't run
Post by Tompion on Apr 6^th, 2010, 1:56pm

I’ve never looked in an autobox so can’t answer :)
But Google around & you’ll get an idea of what’s going on, like here:
http://ezinearticles.com/?Torque-Converter-Lockup&id=113485

I’ve no idea of how accurate this or how well it relates to the Scorpio box, but I would imagine it gives a good enough indication.

Title: Re: 2,3 engine doesn't run
Post by Mike Holmes on Apr 6^th, 2010, 8:21pm

A-ha!! Thanks ;D

Title: Re: 2,3 engine doesn't run
Post by Snoopy on Apr 7^th, 2010, 7:55am

The signal for the tachometer comes from the alternator.

Title: Re: 2,3 engine doesn't run
Post by Tompion on Apr 7^th, 2010, 10:15am

on 04/07/10 at 07:55:04, Snoopy wrote:

The signal for the tachometer comes from the alternator.

It's from the alternator, on the 12V V6 & the diesel, but from the EDIS on other models.