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        General >> Problems >> VSS  problem
        
(Message started by: andyg66 on May 3^rd, 2010, 4:40pm)

Title: VSS problem
Post by andyg66 on May 3^rd, 2010, 4:40pm

Hi I am a virgin to the forum so please bear with me.
I had the usual problems ie(not going into 2nd or 4th gear, My o/d light flashes on/off etc) I changed the VSS, cleaned the MAF but continuing to have the same problems. Pleeeeeeeeeeease somebody help

Title: Re: VSS problem
Post by tonyboy on May 3^rd, 2010, 4:46pm

Hello and wellcome to the site..... Have you checked your oil, the correct proceedure is HERE (http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/autogearbox.htm)

Title: Re: VSS problem
Post by Highlander on May 3^rd, 2010, 6:14pm

Hi Andy,

You may need a diagnostic scan to be sure.
Possibly just a wiring problem or possibly the gearbox has just come to the end of the road..

could be a variety of things but the best idea would be a scan first of all

Title: Re: VSS problem
Post by andyg66 on May 3^rd, 2010, 7:33pm

I had a scan it said Vss but i haven't had the error codes removed or the PCM updated does this matter? The oil is fine and the gearbox its self is ok. As for the wiring i repaired and replaced what was damaged this took forever. If I do need a PCM update does anyone know anyone, who can do this in my area?

Title: Re: VSS problem
Post by tonyboy on May 3^rd, 2010, 7:37pm

Might help to say what area your in .... ;)

Title: Re: VSS problem
Post by andyg66 on May 3^rd, 2010, 7:48pm

Sorry i live in ALFORD LINCOLNSHIRE. Buy the way how do you use the Smileys i tried clicking on them and draging them but they still don't seem to work

;

Title: Re: VSS problem
Post by gozz on May 3^rd, 2010, 8:12pm

The smiley system conked out with the last site breakdown a few weeks ago !!
Have you changed your VSS ? whether or not you clear the codes out is of no great importance,that is until you have another problem and the old codes come up.Any small garage should have the equipment to read and exit codes
GOZZ.

Title: Re: VSS problem
Post by andyg66 on May 3^rd, 2010, 8:27pm

Hi Gozz yes i changed the VSS but it was a secondhand one out of a working car. Friend said if i get a part No he will get me one a bit cheaper maybe?

Title: Re: VSS problem
Post by tonyboy on May 3^rd, 2010, 8:36pm

Smiley's (http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/YaBBHelp/posting.html)

Title: Re: VSS problem
Post by tlundkvi on May 4^th, 2010, 6:56am

Andy, are you still getting somewhat correct speed readings, or does it drop to zero occasionally while driving?

Title: Re: VSS problem
Post by andyg66 on May 4^th, 2010, 8:24am

HI tlundkvi Yes the speed readings are correct. But it has drop to zero twice in two weeks.

Title: Re: VSS problem
Post by tlundkvi on May 4^th, 2010, 9:04am

Is it even after you changed VSS? How long does it stay at zero? You mentioned fixing some wiring, was it for the VSS you meant? If it's only the VSS, these gear shift problems should appear only when the speedo reading is zero or clearly wrong.

But VSS are wear items, they have a bearing, on mine it was shot causing resistance (-> heat) when trying to rotate it. I think that explained why it dropped to zero after some driving. It was fixed the second it was replaced. But then again, I put a brand new one in.

Title: Re: VSS problem
Post by Cosray on May 4^th, 2010, 9:07am

andyg66 - welcome to our great forum.

When it dropped out did you lose Cruise Control as well?

If not all symptoms point to the engine loom travelling over the engine towards the autobox. It connects with the main engine compartment loom with 2 square connectors next to the exhaust manifold.

I had my engine-autobox loom replaced years ago and that cured all erratic problems as racing enine, cut outs, etc.

The area next to the manifold is suspect as well because of intense heat when stationary; view my pics below of the blown main engine compartment loom.

http://picasaweb.google.nl/babpic123/Aegon?authkey=Gv1sRgCNmu4LaW36q0hAE&feat=directlink

In the larger drawing your suspect engine-autobox loom is number 5 and 14 . # 5 is highly suspect because of overhead engine-heat but I would certainly inspect and clean all related connectors.

HTH ,
Ray

Title: Re: VSS problem
Post by Tompion on May 4^th, 2010, 9:25am

If you have AVC (automatic volume control) on your radio & have set it up, the volume may fluctuate if the VSS is playing up.

If you've disconnected the battery since setting up AVC it may not still be set up.

Title: Re: VSS problem
Post by andyg66 on May 4^th, 2010, 10:41am

Yes even i after changed the VSS and i lost 2 3 and 4 gears i parked up for 20mins and then it was ok. I lost cruise control and the AVC works when it wants to.

Title: Re: VSS problem
Post by Cosray on May 4^th, 2010, 11:19am

... symptoms point to engine-autobox loom I am afraid...
It rusn over the top of the engine then down to the box. Please do inspect its quality.

The worst area is between the fuelrail and the injectors. Once you see brittle isolation of the strands anywhere then it is bad news I fear.

Ray

Title: Re: VSS problem
Post by andyg66 on May 4^th, 2010, 2:48pm

Hi Ray I've done the fuelrail and injectors loom. And the loom to the autobox is ok.

Title: Re: VSS problem
Post by Cosray on May 4^th, 2010, 3:26pm

on 05/04/10 at 14:48:45, andyg66 wrote:

Hi Ray I've done the fuelrail and injectors loom. And the loom to the autobox is ok.

... that is a pity :-) ... what to do now?

Well - this particular separate engine-autobox loom in return is fed from the engine-compartment loom to the EEC. So all signals governing INJ and autobox have to pass through the latter.

It is well worth checking whether the infamous section of this engine-compartment loom, sitting next next to the red-hot exhaust manifold, rougly located between ABS-module and the EGR sensor on the chassisbeam, contains brittle wires and strands.

I will bet you it is. Look at my pics-link above and you will recognise this section.

It is wound in plastic/sometimes cottontape holding the strands toghether. Cut this open lenghtwise! oh so delicately with a small cutter.

Through this section anything governing your engine's performance and behaviour is transmitted, except 3 EGR sensor-strands.

Because of persistent heat and dampness it is Scorpio's weakest spot. I am having mine now replaced with a much younger one I found in Germany (LHD). It is 7 meters of loom from rear to front... with one bad section.

Hope I am wrong - but then what?
Ray

Title: Re: VSS problem
Post by andyg66 on May 4^th, 2010, 6:10pm

Ray, the wiring diagram you have sent is for a cossie and i have a 2.0 ultima is the wiring the same then????

Title: Re: VSS problem
Post by Cosray on May 4^th, 2010, 8:32pm

Not quite but - but the design follows the same rules and mistakes.

So use the diagrams but stay aware of the flaws.

HTH

Ray

Title: Re: VSS problem
Post by andyg66 on May 5^th, 2010, 8:12pm

Hi Ray, Sorry to bova you again but I found out the reason why AVC wasn't working properly was because it was on low turn it up and it was fine. I tested my cruise control that was fine 3mins after I turned it off my speedo dropped to 0, the gear box dropped down to 1st, the cruise control wouldn't work, the AVC wouldn't work, wouldn't go up to 2nd 3rd or 4th. I pressed the snow button to try and force it into 2nd but that didn't work. I stopped the car, all I had was 1st and reverse. Started to drive in 1st and after 10mins the speedo started to work again and my gears began to work. What I need to know is this wiring problems or do I need to put a new VSS in. :/ Andy

Title: Re: VSS problem
Post by Cosray on May 5^th, 2010, 8:56pm

[Quote] Vehicle Speed Sensor
The VSS is driven by a tachometer drive in the transmission and uses the Hall effect to provide a digital voltage signal to the PCM, which assigns a corresponding vehicle speed to the signal. With other inputs, the PCM uses this to calculate idle speed control, fuel enrichment during deceleration, and cuts off fuel supply on closed throttle deceleration at speeds greater than 1800 rpm and 5mph.

An example of the way in which integration between different vehicle systems is increasing is by considering this VSS signal. As well as providing vehicle speed information to the PCM, the same signal is used by the electronic Instrument cluster to display the vehicle speed, by the Trip computer to calculate distance and speed, by the speed-sensitive power steering to reduce steering assistance and by the cruise control system. The VSS signal is also used by the radio for the Automatic Volume Control if the option is present and turned on.

In an automatic Scorpio the PCM uses the VSS as an input for the control of line pressure, gear shifts and the engagement of the torque converter clutch and compares the VSS sensor data with that of the TSS to control slip. Monitored by: CCM

This is undoubtedly why the Hall efect was chosen rather than the Inductive pulse generator used on the CKP and the CMP.

Fault Symptoms: harsh engagement, difficult engagement - sudden downshift when throttle is closed - torque converter clutch fails to engage

[end quote]

The VSS is a semiconductor device which, as a binary device, either works or does not. It may fail erratically though. Replace by new in all cases.

It receives its induction signal from a cogwheel which may fail or jitter or swing mechanically. Please check tolerance, play, loseness etc.

Once you are operating in that area you have to be deductive in a very systematic way.

You probably need to lift the car anyway in order to get to the VSS area. Follow the loom.

Wiring plays a major part in getting its relatively small signal across to all related components. Check wiring thoroughly; highly suspect in todays Scorpios since the youngest Scorpio specimens are now over 12 years old... I am being very pessimistic, yes, by experience.

This means inspecting the loom wire by wire and strand by strand visually. What happens is that in hot and vertical areas the wires' isolation becomes brittle, isolation drops down, bare strands erratically touch and cause unpredictable and strange effects. Not shorting, not smoke, not blown fuses - just very confused signals causing erratic behaviour, as you experience.

Also the main engine compartment loom again is the usual suspect, regardless model. Each and every small control singnal has to pass through those old and tired wires and connectors.

HTH
Ray

Title: Re: VSS problem
Post by andyg66 on May 5^th, 2010, 9:06pm

H i Ray, Thank you very much I will put the car on ramps at weekend, check all wiring. I don't suppose you know the part number for the VSS 2ltr 16v. Once again thank you very much your advice has been really helpful.
Andy

Title: Re: VSS problem
Post by Cosray on May 5^th, 2010, 9:33pm

Any Ford dealer can access his MicroCat and tell you its FINIS- or 96GG-number and availibility. Note the number: surf the Net!

Ray

PS Found this: http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/eecvlooms.htm

and

http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=Advice;action=display;num=1108230758

and this

http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/dohcloom.htm

Maybe of help

Title: Re: VSS problem
Post by andyg66 on May 5^th, 2010, 9:49pm

Thanks again Ray the links will be helpful :)

Andy

Title: Re: VSS problem
Post by tlundkvi on May 6^th, 2010, 7:44am

on 05/05/10 at 21:06:24, andyg66 wrote:

The finis is 1021991. It's the same for all models with autobox, only the pinion is model specific. Note that don't worry if your old one is metallic and the new one is plastic, the pinion and it's clip are 100% interchangeable, you just move them.