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        General >> Problems >> Rear Hub Bearings
        
(Message started by: PJDavis on May 19^th, 2010, 5:54pm)

Title: Rear Hub Bearings
Post by PJDavis on May 19^th, 2010, 5:54pm

Och-Aye, I was driving home with the window down the night because of the good weather, and heard a wee bit of squeaking................at home I jack the car and find the off-side rear wheel pretty loose. This of course will indicate bearing failure. I had a wee look around the site and there is a good pointer by one chappy about his replacement of the bearings, and I shall be trying to follow his example. Pressing bearings in and out is not a problem as I've a press at my College, so does the hub and carrier have a bearing in each? Would I be best just to replace the hub with a new one as a matter of course? Or does the carrier get damaged more and need replacing? I don't mind spending the money, but I don't want to spend it to find I should have replaced a part and then fitted the bearings! The job should be no problem, I'm an Engineer, (famous last words).

Title: Re: Rear Hub Bearings
Post by tlundkvi on May 19^th, 2010, 6:15pm

After you pull the hub out, and take off the carrier, you will find two bearings in the carrier, both identical if I recall correctly. I think the hub is more vulnerable, as it really takes the load if the bearing is not tight (the carrier is protected by the outer part of the bearing). You will surely see it if the hub is in bad shape already when pulling it out, if it is, just get a replacement.

Worst part is getting the caliper mount bolts off (threadlock+dirt+rust), have a torch ready :) And a 3-foot bar.

Oh, and a press is handy but not 100% required. I did it without one with a wrench and suitable sized sockets.

Title: Re: Rear Hub Bearings
Post by PJDavis on May 20^th, 2010, 6:12am

Might seem like a daft question, the centre nut bears down onto a washer that has tabs in it that closes onto spaces in the nut, do I prise the tabs away from the nut and will I need to replace the tabbed washer?

Cheers

Title: Re: Rear Hub Bearings
Post by faffi on May 20^th, 2010, 7:10am

Just make sure that whatever it is holding the bearing in place is in perfect order. I'm not sure what it is or how it is done (I had a shop do mine), but there was some wear there. Replacing the part was a bit costly, but also needed to be ordered and I was about to leave for vacation. Hence we agreed they should use Loctite to secure the bearing. It ended up costing me a rear axle and about 1,000 quid. Another (costly) lesson learned.

Title: Re: Rear Hub Bearings
Post by Snoopy on May 20^th, 2010, 7:28am

NO the Wafer nut is designed to be like that do NOT take the wafer nut to pieces. They MUST be replaced when fitting a new bearing /hub. and from what I remember the hubs are the same as the sierra but I am sure someone will correct me if that is not correct. The bearings can be obtained from any good motor factor at a better price than FMD. the Hub is the expensive part used to be about £90 .
Make sure the nut is tightened to 200ft/lbs and STRONG theadlock is used to secure it. then can loosen off if not used.

http://www.drich2422.ukfsn.org/Stub%20axle%20Pictures/Pict0006.jpg

Title: Re: Rear Hub Bearings
Post by tlundkvi on May 20^th, 2010, 7:39am

on 05/20/10 at 06:12:48, PJDavis wrote:

I would never reuse the nut or part of it. I think this washer is part of the actual lock nut if I recall correctly? The nut in the bearing kit is often actually for a Mk3/Scorpio I (normal nylon locknut), but does fit and has worked for me fine for over a year, a "more correct" one can be ordered from Ford (different thread direction for both sides).

Title: Re: Rear Hub Bearings
Post by Scorpio_Mike on May 20^th, 2010, 9:32am

Rear hub assemblies are the same as on a Sierra with rear disc brakes & Mk3 Granada - except the drive flange which has 5 studs on the Granada.
Just rebuilt the rear end of my Sierra project with a mix of Granada & Sierra parts.
Now have a Sierra with 5-stud hubs :-)

New locknuts are about £6 or £7 from Ford - personally I would not re-use the old ones.
Also use some threadlock and when torqued up put a dab of paint on the end of the shaft & nut so you can easily check for any unwanted loosening by just taking the hub cap off and having a quick look.

Title: Re: Rear Hub Bearings
Post by PJDavis on May 20^th, 2010, 11:12am

I've just bought the bearing kit from Dingbro. £35 including a lock-nut with nylon insert. My nut is the one shown above, and the new one doesn't have a washer, is this a problem? Or is there a washer behind the fitted washer thats attached to the nut? If for some horrible reason I need to replace the hub, that will cost £114 plus VAT from Ford. I shall be doing the job tonight I hope. Thanks for all the info so far.

Title: Re: Rear Hub Bearings
Post by Highlander on May 20^th, 2010, 11:45am

Plenty spare hubs if you need one, I dont usually change the bearings I just fit an old hub (Cowboys R Us) ;)

Title: Re: Rear Hub Bearings
Post by tlundkvi on May 20^th, 2010, 1:13pm

on 05/20/10 at 11:12:23, PJDavis wrote:

My nut is the one shown above, and the new one doesn't have a washer, is this a problem? Or is there a washer behind the fitted washer thats attached to the nut?

I used the supplied nylon nut, no problems with loosening or anything after a year. The OEM nut is probably better though (if it costs £7 it'd better be :)), but the nylon nut will cover the center. I didn't put a washer.

Title: Re: Rear Hub Bearings
Post by tlundkvi on May 20^th, 2010, 1:15pm

on 05/20/10 at 11:45:53, Highlander wrote:

Plenty spare hubs if you need one, I dont usually change the bearings I just fit an old hub (Cowboys R Us) ;)

Good idea, if one starts to run out of them just fix one of the old and just install :)

Title: Re: Rear Hub Bearings
Post by PJDavis on May 20^th, 2010, 1:43pm

I'll see how I get on the night, if I need a hub I'll give you a shout Highlander and we'll come to an arrangement.

Title: Re: Rear Hub Bearings
Post by Highlander on May 20^th, 2010, 1:48pm

My usual starting price is £1Million but i'm prepared to haggle ;)

Title: Re: Rear Hub Bearings
Post by Mike H on May 20^th, 2010, 4:09pm

on 05/20/10 at 06:12:48, PJDavis wrote:

Yes this is a tab washer, it makes sure the nut doesn't come undone. The washer should be keyed to the shaft or something else so it doesn't turn.

Yes have to bend the tab(s) flat to release the nut.

Could be reused again if you use a different tab that hasn't been bent up before (preferably), though depends what overall state it's in generally.

Title: Re: Rear Hub Bearings
Post by gozz on May 20^th, 2010, 4:45pm

Mike you must have dreamt it !! read Snoopy's previous post.Depending on where the pattern part kit is bought,the nuts vary.As the drive shaft is the same as a Granada,some kits come with two Nylok nuts,a left and a right hand thread to cater for both sides,the bearings being the same in all cases,these nuts have a bigger O/D than the proper wafer nut,but the right hand one will still fit either side of the Scorpio,there is no separate washer or any lock tab in any case.As Snoopy says, the nut needs torquing to 200lb/ft,the bearings cannot be damaged because they have pre set shouldering.In the past I have seen fitters trying to set them up like taper roller front wheel bearings of yesteryear,that is what causes premature failure.
GOZZ.

Title: Re: Rear Hub Bearings
Post by Mike H on May 20^th, 2010, 8:56pm

Ah-hah! I was just going by the initial description, having not ack-shirley looked at one ;D

Such things do exist though

Title: Re: Rear Hub Bearings
Post by PJDavis on May 20^th, 2010, 9:59pm

OK up-date. I easily managed to remove the nut from the shaft because the blasted thing was hardly tight, about 120 lbs ft! It's obviously been slapping around for a wee while, because the hub is beyond service. I'm bloody ashamed of myself not noticing this earlier, but in my defence I think the bearings have previously been replaced and the job hasn't been done properly. My reasons for thinking this are, the bearings and surfaces look pretty fresh, as does the grease, and there was tell-tail signs of the old ones having been drifted out, this coupled with one SKF bearing one side of the carrier, and a GKN bearing the other. Of course I've checked the near-side, and it just wasn't as tight as it could have been. It was tight enough to not allow play, but again only about 120 lbs ft. Who are these people that call themselves mechanics, why can't they do a proper job? So I've tightened up the near-side, and dot-punched the end of the shaft in line with another mark on the nut. I also suspect that the original nuts have been used because they're well worn. Apparently the early cars up to 4/97 were sided, and the near-side was a left-handed thread. I got this from the local Ford dealer, along with the info that the later cars were both sides as normal. My car although registered in August '98, is a July '97 car so just falls into the later category. Both bearings on early and later cars are the same, it's just the nuts on the early cars that are different, so Ford sell the nuts separately. Ford quoted me £85 for the bearing kit, then more for a new nut. I got my kit for £35, including the right nut. I've detached the washer from the original funny nut to go under the new nut which is a couple of sizes up from the original, Ford said that's what to do! However, I'm in need of a hub now, so I'll just go PM a certain Southern Scot that may be able to help!

I'll update when I finish the job.

Title: Re: Rear Hub Bearings
Post by gozz on May 20^th, 2010, 10:57pm

PJD.
Sounds like Lord Ford is speaking through his rectum again !! I have had several very early stretched Scorpios and have never seen a left hand thread,however the Granadas with five stud hubs all had handed threads.C'est la vie !!!

Title: Re: Rear Hub Bearings
Post by Snoopy on May 21^st, 2010, 7:51am

Gozz you and me together! The Shafts on the Scorpio are NOT repeat NOT LEFT and Right handed. They are both the same. they tighten up the same way CLOCKWISE or right handed. The nearside one therefore has a tendency to undo with wheel rotation and braking the offside one is usually fine. I see you are using a washer there should be no need for a washer under the nut. I think i might give problems, new wafer nuts are only a few £'s from FMD or even Trevor Porter at Ford Parts UK.

Title: Re: Rear Hub Bearings
Post by Scorpio_Mike on May 21^st, 2010, 8:32am

My Scorpio estate is a 1996 model and having done the hub bearings on the n/s TWICE can confirm it is a normal thread, not L/H.

On my Sierra 4x4 I have just done the hub bearings and that definately has a L/H thread on the n/s.

Can't comment on Mk3 Granada as in almost 6 years of ownership I never had to do the hub bearings at all.

Title: Re: Rear Hub Bearings
Post by Dave2302 on May 21^st, 2010, 8:47am

Yes you are correct, I've done plenty, it is early Granada Scorpio and Sierras that have LH thread on the N/S, The later Scorpio has RH thread both sides.

HTH Dave

Title: Re: Rear Hub Bearings
Post by Nunnspoet on May 27^th, 2010, 8:06am

I recently did my offside rear Hub bearing with the help of a friendly garage whic pressed the bearings out and the new ones in. I fitted the hub myself and torqued it up to 150ft. lbs on my Torque Wrench which I then removed. I then applied further Torque using a 2ft extension bar and my foot. I was still concerned that I had not achieved the 208ft. lbs required to secure the Hub nut so I went to my local friendly Tyre fitting people (hub cap removed and Hub nut exposed for easy access) and they further Torqued the nut to 208ft.lbs with their professional Torque Wrench. :).

I am a bit long winded but it is imperative that the correct Torque is applied to the Hub Nuts on the Scorpios.

Mike ;)

Title: Re: Rear Hub Bearings
Post by 5stud on May 27^th, 2010, 10:15am

last month when i had the scorpio motd they had a toyota yaris in fore rear hub £200.trade ouch that hurts.but the the scorpio pased .

Title: Re: Rear Hub Bearings
Post by Scorpio_Mike on May 27^th, 2010, 12:11pm

I invested about £70 in a 3/4" drive torque wrench & correct sized socket to do mine - not much more than the cost of 1 hours labour at garage prices and I have also used it on my Sierra - and will no doubt use it again.

£200 for a Yaris rear hub ! Cheap car, expensive parts syndrome ?
Guy at work bought his wife a Kia summit or other - nice cheap car...but sadly spares prices from main dealer very steep.

Title: Re: Rear Hub Bearings
Post by Nunnspoet on May 27^th, 2010, 6:15pm

:). Scorpios rule.

Title: Re: Rear Hub Bearings
Post by PJDavis on Jun 4^th, 2010, 11:14am

Well it's all back together now. I bit the bullet and purchased a new hub from Mr Ford. The cheapest I could get it on the 'net inluding delivery was about £120, I told this to my local Ford dealer in Elgin and Gordon a friend and the parts boss said he'd match that. The pics below tell the story of assembly, but it was no walk in the park! I used the inner bearing race to chap the bearings and carrier over the hub using a brass drift precisely and very carefully, I guess I could have waited till the next time I was in the M/V department at work (college) and pressed the bearings and carrier over the hub but figured with patience I could do at home. All greased up and revolving smoothly and perfectly. Torqued up to 210Lbs ft and the supplied nylock nut blobbed with paint, job done. As an afterthought I checked the ABS sensor and was surprised to find it quite 'claggy' even though it was cleaned only a few months ago! Thanks to all those that had input earlier, esp Stuart and his help on PM. I'll probably do the other side sooner rather than later, and I feel the discs will soon need replacing too.

http://i771.photobucket.com/albums/xx357/PJJDavis123/Hub1.jpg

http://i771.photobucket.com/albums/xx357/PJJDavis123/Hub2.jpg

http://i771.photobucket.com/albums/xx357/PJJDavis123/Hub3.jpg

http://i771.photobucket.com/albums/xx357/PJJDavis123/Hub4.jpg

http://i771.photobucket.com/albums/xx357/PJJDavis123/Hub5.jpg

Title: Re: Rear Hub Bearings
Post by Mike H on Jun 4^th, 2010, 1:05pm

Majik. So that's how it's done!

And always nice to have a handy tree stump around to prop it up on ;D

I just lost Internet connection for two minutes!