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        General >> Problems >> Low MPG on 24 valve Cossie
        
(Message started by: Nunnspoet on Jun 5th, 2010, 9:31am)
Title: Low MPG on 24 valve Cossie
Post by Nunnspoet on Jun 5th, 2010, 9:31am
Around town I get 17-19mpg.  As expected.
Long distance Motorways and dualed A roads at best 22mpg.  This is just driving at reasonable speeds within the Speed limits.  No hard driving, just trying to up the overall mpg.

I removed the EGR some time ago and blocked the orifice in the exhaust and in the inlet manifold with 2x1p pieces.  No leaks as far as I know.  Also at this time, 2years ago, the mpg was as above.  

I have got some fault codes from my borrowed Axex Peppers lead:

PO138 OS CHV (B1S2)

PO138 OS CHB (B2S20)

P14O1 DPFEGRCH1

P1131 LOH O2S1S115 - SIL - P1131 Lack of HO2S11 Switches - sensor indicates lean (see P2195).

P1401 Diff pressure feedback EGR Circuit High Input.

OK, I know that the 2 post cat sensors are us but believe that they have no influence on performance or fueling.  I know that the EGR is removed.  It was busted and I could not afford a new one and I believe that it also has not influence over fuelling or performance.

She did have a hesitation at tickover which was there before Bill re-loomed, re-wired her, and re-shelled the Big ends and was there when I got her back from him.  But that has almost dissapeared  now and I expect it will with a few more miles on the clock.

She drives like a dream whichever way I drive her but the bad MPG is killing my pleasure so please help me out folks.

Mike    :)
Title: Re: Low MPG on 24 valve Cossie
Post by tlundkvi on Jun 5th, 2010, 12:18pm
The P1131 indicates a front lambda sensor is bust, it may have quite a negative impact on fuel consumption. I would check live data on both of them. A lambda sensor is supposed to last only 60K, above this is luck.
Title: Re: Low MPG on 24 valve Cossie
Post by Nunnspoet on Jun 5th, 2010, 12:45pm
Thanks tlundkvi.  I have a repacement lambda sensor  and will get around to fitting it, possibly today.  It is a real pain to do as I have to remove the Oil filter in order, hopefully, to get at the sensor.  If I cut a ring spanner to around 4inches long I might just be able to access the sensor from the top.  Fingers crossed.

Mike    :)
Title: Re: Low MPG on 24 valve Cossie
Post by tlundkvi on Jun 5th, 2010, 4:57pm

on 06/05/10 at 12:45:31, Nunnspoet wrote:
Thanks tlundkvi.  I have a repacement lambda sensor  and will get around to fitting it, possibly today.  It is a real pain to do as I have to remove the Oil filter in order, hopefully, to get at the sensor.  If I cut a ring spanner to around 4inches long I might just be able to access the sensor from the top.  Fingers crossed.

Mike    :)


:)

Hopefully it does the trick.
Title: Re: Low MPG on 24 valve Cossie
Post by tonyboy on Jun 5th, 2010, 7:28pm
I thought the lambda sensors was on the exhaust just under the autobox pan ........
Title: Re: Low MPG on 24 valve Cossie
Post by Highlander on Jun 5th, 2010, 8:34pm
there is one before and one after each cat Tony

http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/images/catconfig.gif

http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/ho2smonitor.htm
Title: Re: Low MPG on 24 valve Cossie
Post by gozz on Jun 5th, 2010, 8:34pm
Tony.
They are the post cat sensors,the pre cat are the ones that affect performance.
                                      GOZZ.
Title: Re: Low MPG on 24 valve Cossie
Post by tonyboy on Jun 5th, 2010, 8:50pm
Ahhh. sensors before and after the cat........... http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/YaBBImages/rolleyes.gif
Title: Re: Low MPG on 24 valve Cossie
Post by Matt on Jun 6th, 2010, 9:01pm
talking to a friend of mine who knows the 24v's very well he says that the post cat sensors arnt really needed and dont affect the car if they fail. he said it will throw a hissy fit and run funny for a while then carry on as if nothing had happened lol
Title: Re: Low MPG on 24 valve Cossie
Post by Mike H on Jun 7th, 2010, 3:50pm

on 06/05/10 at 20:50:14, tonyboy wrote:
Ahhh. sensors before and after the cat........... http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/YaBBImages/rolleyes.gif

Yep.

@ NP the EGR valve (exhaust gas recirculation) is what gives you your fuel economy if you're going to have any. But you can't cos you've blocked it off. There's an article mentions what it does on this site; what it does is bleed a proportion of exhaust gas (which is essentially an inert gas) into the inlet manifold, what this means is that for the cylinder capacity remaining the same, you actually get less fuel and air going in, in other words, your total engine capacity becomes magically smaller. Therefore, less fuel used, so it goes further. Obviously this is only meant for minimal load, e.g. constant speed cruising (not "booting it" ;D ).

EGR valves can also get permanently stuck closed cos they're all sooted up, as mine used to often, this would usually cause it to fail gas emissions for the MOT, until it was soaked overnight to clean it so it opened properly. Yep it affects how much fuel is used for idling as well.
Title: Re: Low MPG on 24 valve Cossie
Post by Nunnspoet on Jun 9th, 2010, 7:01am
Thanks everybody for all your advice.  After hours of trying to remove the old Sensor I gave up and got it done by my friendly local Garage.  He had a hard time but it is done now.

Mike H.  So my lack of an EGR valve is one of the causes for my poor fuel economy.  Didn't know that it had this affect.  But I do now, thank you.

Ages ago I removed the EGR because the washer on the end of the pipe to the Exhaust was not secure and 112pounds Sterling was out of the question.  

Thanks again.

Mike   ;)
Title: Re: Low MPG on 24 valve Cossie
Post by tlundkvi on Jun 9th, 2010, 7:54am
Hi Mike,

You might find some cheap parts for your EGR here:
http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Competition-Ford-and-Cosworth-Parts_Cosworth-V6-24v-2-9_W0QQ_fsubZ1373704012QQ_sidZ404461992QQ_trksidZp4634Q2ec0Q2em322

ebay seller competitionfordparts and Cosworth V6 category.
Title: Re: Low MPG on 24 valve Cossie
Post by Nunnspoet on Jun 9th, 2010, 11:32am
Didn't see anything for me, but thanks for your trouble.  Interesting though.

Mike   :)
Title: Re: Low MPG on 24 valve Cossie
Post by Nunnspoet on Jun 11th, 2010, 8:16am
Ok.  Well here goes:  We went from Chard to Exeter and back yesterday with new pre Cat. Bank 1 Sensor fitted.  I have done my sums in K's, and Litres using  the Dash trip, not the trip above the drivers side dash glove box as it is busted.

Result:  9.8Kilometers to 1Ltr petrol.  Therefore 70ltrs (1Tank full) = 688kilometers.  I can hardly believe these figures they are such an improvement.  "Have I made a mistake"?, keeps popping up in my mind, so I have checked my figures over and over but they are correct.

Yeeeeehhaaa!

Mike   ;)
Title: Re: Low MPG on 24 valve Cossie
Post by 5stud on Jun 11th, 2010, 10:43am
havent you heard the government is going back to good old mpg when claming expences.do you live in chard
Title: Re: Low MPG on 24 valve Cossie
Post by Nunnspoet on Jun 11th, 2010, 10:51am
Yup and a good job too and Yup again I do live in Chard.  
Title: Re: Low MPG on 24 valve Cossie
Post by tlundkvi on Jun 11th, 2010, 10:58am

on 06/09/10 at 11:32:18, Nunnspoet wrote:
Didn't see anything for me, but thanks for your trouble.  Interesting though.

Mike   :)

I thought of the EGR pipe for £25+p&p, but in your case only the valve was broken?
Title: Re: Low MPG on 24 valve Cossie
Post by Highlander on Jun 11th, 2010, 6:47pm

on 06/11/10 at 08:16:36, Nunnspoet wrote:
Ok.  Well here goes:  We went from Chard to Exeter and back yesterday with new pre Cat. Bank 1 Sensor fitted.  I have done my sums in K's, and Litres using  the Dash trip, not the trip above the drivers side dash glove box as it is busted.

Result:  9.8Kilometers to 1Ltr petrol.  Therefore 70ltrs (1Tank full) = 688kilometers.  I can hardly believe these figures they are such an improvement.  "Have I made a mistake"?, keeps popping up in my mind, so I have checked my figures over and over but they are correct.

Yeeeeehhaaa!

Mike   ;)



I make that 27 mpg Mike, sounds about normal
Title: Re: Low MPG on 24 valve Cossie
Post by a900one on Jun 11th, 2010, 6:53pm
I work that out at 27.8 mpg, but my maths is prone to mistakes.
Title: Re: Low MPG on 24 valve Cossie
Post by a900one on Jun 11th, 2010, 6:55pm
You just got in before me Highlander.
Title: Re: Low MPG on 24 valve Cossie
Post by Nunnspoet on Jun 12th, 2010, 8:04am
Thanks for your offer tlundkvi.  I am in a bit of a dilemma regarding the EGR at the moment (wheather to fit one or not) as the car is returning great mileage per gallon now also the job of fitting it is pretty much beyond me now.  Your offer is much apreciated.

Stuart and a900one the journey from Chard to Exeter and back is by no means flat, entailing some hilly twisty driving and a bit of driving in traffic on the outskirts of Exeter so I am really pleased with this mpg. return and would expect even better on a long Mway run.

p.s. Stuart, "hilly twisty" refers to this neck of the Woods, not bonney Scotland, Wales, The Lake District etc.  Though recently in my other 24valve when touring The Lake District she never dropped below 24mpg and actuall attained 29mpg on the way home.

One happy Scorpio owner.    ;)  
Title: Re: Low MPG on 24 valve Cossie
Post by tlundkvi on Jun 12th, 2010, 9:08am
It's not me selling it. They seem to have a lot of discontinued parts very cheap. Very good you got the consumption to an acceptable level.
Title: Re: Low MPG on 24 valve Cossie
Post by 5stud on Jun 13th, 2010, 11:23am
if you used the a30 vi yarcombe hill that is a steep twistey old drag.nearley ase bad as.porlock
Title: Re: Low MPG on 24 valve Cossie
Post by Nunnspoet on Jun 14th, 2010, 11:54am
I did use the A30 via Yarcombe both directions 5stud.....another reason that I am really really happy with my MPG  
Title: Re: Low MPG on 24 valve Cossie
Post by Nunnspoet on Jun 14th, 2010, 11:57am
Ooooppss! Something gone wrong with the smiley I tried to import.  It was a bouncy smiley smiley.  And I apologise profusely if I have caused any problems.

Mike
Title: Re: Low MPG on 24 valve Cossie
Post by lesterlad aka Rodders on Jun 14th, 2010, 5:43pm
Nunnspoet, I notice with your link you are using "Smiley Central"
Just a word of warning with that site, you may get a lot of spyware and adware installed onto your computer.

I used to use it some years ago as was infected by a lot of such nasties.

When I clicked on your link(s) I was warned by WOT (web of trust) that the site has a poor reputation.

http://img695.imageshack.us/img695/5003/woti.jpg (http://img695.imageshack.us/i/woti.jpg/)
Title: Re: Low MPG on 24 valve Cossie
Post by Simmo on Jun 15th, 2010, 6:26am
Mike. In view of Rodders post I have deleted the reference.
Title: Re: Low MPG on 24 valve Cossie
Post by Nunnspoet on Jun 15th, 2010, 1:45pm
I am sorry, I had no idea.  Please can somebody tell me how to get rid of this abonimation.
Title: Re: Low MPG on 24 valve Cossie
Post by Highlander on Jun 15th, 2010, 8:31pm

on 06/15/10 at 13:45:54, Nunnspoet wrote:
I am sorry, I had no idea.  Please can somebody tell me how to get rid of this abonimation.


Simmo?? ;D
Title: Re: Low MPG on 24 valve Cossie
Post by Simmo on Jun 16th, 2010, 8:01am
The eyes of Snoopy and myself are yet again on you!!. ::)
Title: Re: Low MPG on 24 valve Cossie
Post by Nunnspoet on Jun 16th, 2010, 9:44am
I'm innocent guv!

Mike    ;)
Title: Re: Low MPG on 24 valve Cossie
Post by faffi on Jun 16th, 2010, 12:47pm

on 06/07/10 at 15:50:45, Mike H wrote:
Yep.

@ NP the EGR valve (exhaust gas recirculation) is what gives you your fuel economy if you're going to have any. But you can't cos you've blocked it off. There's an article mentions what it does on this site; what it does is bleed a proportion of exhaust gas (which is essentially an inert gas) into the inlet manifold, what this means is that for the cylinder capacity remaining the same, you actually get less fuel and air going in, in other words, your total engine capacity becomes magically smaller. Therefore, less fuel used, so it goes further. Obviously this is only meant for minimal load, e.g. constant speed cruising (not "booting it" ;D ).

EGR valves can also get permanently stuck closed cos they're all sooted up, as mine used to often, this would usually cause it to fail gas emissions for the MOT, until it was soaked overnight to clean it so it opened properly. Yep it affects how much fuel is used for idling as well.


This is atypical, I believe. I was recommended by Ford to shut off the EGR on both my 2.9 and 2.3 to save fuel and gain a little performance. Never got around to it because I'm lazy, though.

When you run spent gasses through the engine once more, they will contain less oxygen. This will again make for a less compustible mixture, reducing performance and efficiency.

So if the Cossie indeed is more frugal with the EGR intact than blocked off, that's pretty interesting.
Title: Re: Low MPG on 24 valve Cossie
Post by Mike H on Jun 16th, 2010, 8:39pm

on 06/16/10 at 12:47:06, faffi wrote:
When you run spent gasses through the engine once more, they will contain less oxygen. This will again make for a less compustible mixture, reducing performance and efficiency.

OK, I'm only quoting from an article that's on here somewhere, albeit very badly. Apparently the main reason is to reduce nitrous oxides in the exhaust (so I'm wrong) caused by high operating temperature in the combustion chamber. This is aggravated by running as lean as possible for maximum fuel economy when cruising. In which case recycling the exhaust gas is done to aid cooling, bizarre as it sounds. This is achieved by simply reducing the displacement volume. I.e. making the CC's smaller, so smaller burn.

Found it, article here:
http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/egr.htm
Title: Re: Low MPG on 24 valve Cossie
Post by Dave2302 on Jun 16th, 2010, 8:45pm
The EGR will cause bad fuel consumption when its open, if it's blocked off the engine will be fine, I always blank them off on my performance engines.

All the ones I've ever blocked have run better andit has improved mpg.  Yes I have blocked off 24V Cossies, as well as a host of others including diesels.

HTH Dave
Title: Re: Low MPG on 24 valve Cossie
Post by lesterlad aka Rodders on Jun 17th, 2010, 12:23am

on 06/15/10 at 13:45:54, Nunnspoet wrote:
I am sorry, I had no idea.  Please can somebody tell me how to get rid of this abonimation.


Click "Start" > all programms, look for it in there, maybe an uninstall option

OR

Control Panel > Add & remove > smilie central > click remove button.
"My Web Search" tool bar usually attaches itself to smilie central as well, I would advise you to get rid of that as well if you have it.
Title: Re: Low MPG on 24 valve Cossie
Post by Nunnspoet on Jun 17th, 2010, 3:39pm
Cheers Rodders.  I've had a search but cannot for the life of me find the programme.  I will have another go though.  Is "smilie central" a programme?

Mike    :)
Title: Re: Low MPG on 24 valve Cossie
Post by georgeodyphotos on Feb 24th, 2011, 10:55am
The best figure I have obtained, on a run, mostly motorway, from Minehead to Sunbury was 31 mpg


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