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        General >> Problems >> oh no!!
        
(Message started by: rich1 on Jul 16^th, 2010, 9:17am)

Title: oh no!!
Post by rich1 on Jul 16^th, 2010, 9:17am

took my wife to the airport early this morning , and put the heating on for the first time in a while , and now it seems like ive got something leaking, dont know if its just coincidence or not , and as i pulled up outside my house i started to get smoke coming tro the air vents ....., checked my coolant level in the header tank seems a bit low . any ideas please , panicking a bit now:-(

and ive now noticed a puddle under the drivers door!!!

Title: Re: oh no!!
Post by Simmo on Jul 16^th, 2010, 9:29am

Rich. Sounds like a leak in the engine bay if it is coming in through the vents. When you say under the drivers door do you mean outside the car?. If so again it sounds like a leak in the engine bay area. I'd suggest you make sure the tank is full of water and then run the engine whilst watching for evidence of the leak. Could be the rad of course or if its a 2.3 the manifold. What car do you have?.

Title: Re: oh no!!
Post by rich1 on Jul 16^th, 2010, 9:34am

2.0ltr 16v, i will do that water test , but from what i can see it looks to be leaking directly under the drivers door in line with the front of the door . i will try and take a picture and post it on here

Title: Re: oh no!!
Post by rich1 on Jul 16^th, 2010, 10:45am

ok , ive done the water test as suggested by simmo, let the car run and water started to leak out of the same place as mentioned above , on closer inspection it seems to be leaking out of a drain hole of some sort , i watched with the bonnet up and can see nothing leaking from under the engine , i know water finds it way out from the quickest point , but wouldnt i notice something , i just cant see were its leaking from , confused.com!!

Title: Re: oh no!!
Post by Simmo on Jul 16^th, 2010, 12:41pm

Rich. I've looked at mine,which is the same engine, and can't see any reasonable source which would get water to that point. First. Have you actually lost water from the header tank?. 2nd. Where is the overflow pipe positioned?. it should run straight down the inner wing but some times they lie on the wing top. 3rd. Is there any water round the base of the drivers side fuse-box? could it be an accumulation from there?. Anything to do with the use of the windscreen washers as all that pipework runs under the bonnet and would be positioned to possibly run or spray out once under pressure?.
Are you sure the source is external and not from the heater matrix,running under the carpet and then finding its way out through a hole from inside?.

Title: Re: oh no!!
Post by Snoopy on Jul 16^th, 2010, 3:56pm

Are the drain holes for the sunroof clear they drain out by the rear of the front wings and the front of the rear wings, maybe its partially blocked and now started to clear. otherwise suggest it could be from the A/C but strange if only happens with the engine running which has to be ... Heater matrix/Pipes or A/C Drain ...

Title: Re: oh no!!
Post by rich1 on Jul 16^th, 2010, 5:23pm

update: not started the car since this mornings water test , haven`t lost anymore water from header tank , checked inside and yep , ive got wet carpet on drivers side , around the drivers side fuse box it seems clear and dry , i took it for a spin got the tempreture up then sat and left it running , got a tiny bit of smoke but then nothing . no water loss from header tank no sign of it over heating !!
going to give it to my mechanic tomorrow and let him have a butchers at it , because im completely flummoxed............oh the joys of owning a scorpio:-)

Title: Re: oh no!!
Post by Simmo on Jul 16^th, 2010, 7:14pm

Rich. The likely suspect is the heater matrix if the carpet is wet. One clue is that it usually starts with a type of 'Curry ' smell. Does that help?.

Title: Re: oh no!!
Post by gozz on Jul 16^th, 2010, 9:49pm

Rich.
Put your finger in the water and taste it,if it's sweet(assuming you have antifreeze)then the heater is leaking,are you familiar with the A/C drain valves that Snoopy mentioned,they get full of gunge then the condensation trickles into the car,however, this does not taste sweet.
GOZZ.

Title: Re: oh no!!
Post by tlundkvi on Jul 17^th, 2010, 8:24am

I've seen even newer cars developing a lot of water on the floor because of clogged AC drains. Once a car developed a liter of water within an hour, the smell was like wet towels forgotten in a pile for a few days.

Title: Re: oh no!!
Post by Mike H on Jul 17^th, 2010, 12:07pm

FWIW, and excuse me for quoting the owner's book again ;D it do say that one of the AC functions is as a dehumidifier, i.e. it removes water from the cooled air being drawn into the interior (condensation). "Therefore it is completely normal if a small pool of water forms underneath the parked vehicle."

However as foregoing have already said, this comes from the AC drains and they must be clear. Shouldn't end up in the carpet.

However as this all started with turning on heater does suggest a heater matrix leak. Although the tap (if it is a tap?) only prevents flow through (?) so there's still coolant in it so if it were leaky it would leak anyway wouldn't it?

Title: Re: oh no!!
Post by Tompion on Jul 17^th, 2010, 12:37pm

The heater always has hot coolant running through it, the cabin temperature is controlled by air flaps (in the cabin), so any coolant leak will likely work it's way through to the floor regardless of the heat setting.

Title: Re: oh no!!
Post by Mike H on Jul 17^th, 2010, 3:57pm

Okey-dokey then, so turning the heater knob is no reason for "setting it off" ;D

Title: Re: oh no!!
Post by gozz on Jul 17^th, 2010, 5:25pm

If there is a build up of aircon condensation lying in the heater,turning on the fan will tend to expel it into the footwells,and turning on the fan with heat will cause water vapour to appear at the air outlets.
GOZZ.

Title: Re: oh no!!
Post by rich1 on Jul 17^th, 2010, 10:46pm

simmo , i did get the curry smell , where are the ac drains ? not had chance to get it to my mechanics yet
is it ok to drive ??

Title: Re: oh no!!
Post by Tompion on Jul 17^th, 2010, 10:50pm

The drains are here:
http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/acdrain.htm

Title: Re: oh no!!
Post by Simmo on Jul 18^th, 2010, 7:40am

If you go to This page (http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/faultfinds.htm) and scroll down to Air con Problems you will find the reference to the curry smell under 'Internal coolant leak'. That will take you to a link about replacing the heater matrix. The phrase 'None but the brave' comes to mind!!.

Title: Re: oh no!!
Post by rich1 on Jul 18^th, 2010, 3:13pm

gozz . you were right it was very very sweet tasting , uurrgh
got it booked in for monday

Title: Re: oh no!!
Post by Cosray on Jul 18^th, 2010, 7:44pm

My heater matrix started leaking in 2007 while driving. The heater matrix tubes - plastic, on a metal matrix, would you believe? - cracked at the joint with the rubber tubes from the engine. Since this in the vicinity of very hot exhaust pipes white smoke emerges, reminiscing of a blown gasket!

http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/images/step3a_1.jpg

and...

http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/images/step3b_1.jpg

These joint are just inside the engine compartment, at the back of the engine. My local ANWB/RAC managed to put a temp clamp on so I could make it to my workshop.

The heatermatrix is *always* connected to the primary cooling circuit - the inside airtemp is regulated through the flapdoors only.

Inside it had been stinkling for a while until white smoke came off the engine compartment... leaking tubes... it's hell to have this replaced. In my case a little man did it, a day's work.

Here's some pics how the thing looks...
http://picasaweb.google.nl/lh/sredir?uname=babpic123&target=ALBUM&id=5495316921722806289&authkey=Gv1sRgCPGM79im0dabbg&invite=COuZ08gD&feat=email&mode=SLIDESHOW

Secondhand matrix will set you back $ 30; labour's another thing.

HTH
Ray

Title: Re: oh no!!
Post by gozz on Jul 18^th, 2010, 9:39pm

Ray.
I bet he was a 'little' man,he would need to be to claw about under there ;)
GOZZ.

Title: Re: oh no!!
Post by Cosray on Jul 19^th, 2010, 11:19am

GOZZ we grown them here as strawberry pickers first ;-)

Ray

Title: Re: oh no!!
Post by Mike H on Jul 19^th, 2010, 12:04pm

That's rediculous, why can't the whole thing be metal?

Can't be that much cheaper having a mould made for a plastic bit then getting it attached to the radiator bit. Can't think why else

Edited
Reason for edit ~ superfluous word! Didn't make sense

Title: Re: oh no!!
Post by Malcolm73 on Jul 19^th, 2010, 7:01pm

I would not fit a second hand heater matrix unless you know that it is no more than a year or two old. Just because you can pour water through the matrix tubes and there are no obvious leaks does not guarantee the matrix.. During manufacture each aluminium U tube is fitted internally with a plastic spiral which over the years deteriorates, impedes the flow and will eventually block the tubes.

I have attempted to clear the plastic debris but failed.

Unless you tackle matrix replacement yourself you do not want to be paying twice for labour.

Re: Condensate Valves on Bulkhead.

Because the condensate flap valves on the bulkhead block with sludge I decided to remove them.

On the lathe I machined from aluminium bar adaptors to push fit into the two rubber drain hoses.

Plastic tubing, 6 or 8mm I.D. was then attached carrying the condensate to within six inches of the road. The plastic tube must be fixed so that it will not kink or be burnt or softened by the exhaust pipes.

This has worked well for ten years.

Title: Re: oh no!!
Post by rich1 on Jul 19^th, 2010, 7:40pm

well as assumed by many on here , its the matrix:-(
i dont want to fanny about with a second hand one , but how much am i looking at for a new one
i take it they are still available???

Title: Re: oh no!!
Post by Tompion on Jul 20^th, 2010, 2:07am

Someone asked about it recently,
have a look here:
http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=Advice;action=display;num=1277829810

Title: Re: oh no!!
Post by Highlander on Jul 20^th, 2010, 2:14pm

on 07/19/10 at 19:40:14, rich1 wrote:

well as assumed by many on here , its the matrix:-(
i dont want to fanny about with a second hand one , but how much am i looking at for a new one
i take it they are still available???

Shocked! surprised! and childlishly amused that "fanny" isn't censored ;D ;D ;D

Title: Re: oh no!!
Post by Tons_of_fun on Jul 20^th, 2010, 3:57pm

Trust you to find that :-) ;-)

Title: Re: oh no!!
Post by Mike H on Jul 20^th, 2010, 8:06pm

http://livinginthepast-audioweb.co.uk/kbf/surprised.gif

Title: Re: oh no!!
Post by gozz on Jul 20^th, 2010, 10:02pm

The Yanks don't know about fanny,they use another weird description ;D

Title: Re: oh no!!
Post by lleewar on Jul 20^th, 2010, 11:18pm

Their fanny is their arse for descriptive purposes. Then why do they have fanny packs at the front????????