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        General >> Problems >> 2.9 12V Automatic Problem
        
(Message started by: ThomasB on Jul 21^st, 2010, 2:26pm)

Title: 2.9 12V Automatic Problem
Post by ThomasB on Jul 21^st, 2010, 2:26pm

Hi Folks

I Know there is alot of posts about the autobox, but I can´t find any with the exact same problem as I have.

My problem is that it sometimes slips between 2 gears "2 and 3 I think". When i drive easy i almost never have the problem, but if i drive on the freeway and want to overtake, I step on the throttel and it gears down to third allright, but if i step on it hard and it wants to go i second gear, the revs just go up, like the gear box is slipping, then i have to ease of the throttle until the revs are low enough, and the it jumps in to third gear hard.

I never have any problem if i start from zero, then I can step on it hard and it shifts fine all the way to fourth, no slipping at all, It only happens when it wants to gear down.

I have pulled of the plug to my kickdown solenoid, and i know that my solenoid isin´t hanging.

My vacuum system to my gearbox also seems allright, no leaks.

I have almost no lag when i put it in drive or reverse "about 2 secs"

I changed oil and filter on the box about a year ago, and my oil looks nice and red.

Hope you have a solution.

Thx Thomas.

Title: Re: 2.9 12V Automatic Problem
Post by Snoopy on Jul 21^st, 2010, 2:29pm

Have you tried doing a manual change at speed?
I must admit my old 12v did not like "kickdown" i always used a manual gear slection to obviate the type of problem you seem to have.

Title: Re: 2.9 12V Automatic Problem
Post by ThomasB on Jul 21^st, 2010, 2:33pm

Hi, very quick response.

No I haven´t tried that, I didn´t think the box could do that with out damaging it.

Title: Re: 2.9 12V Automatic Problem
Post by Tons_of_fun on Jul 21^st, 2010, 3:49pm

The box will cope fine with manual changes. Just remember to back off the throttle slightly when changing up. This will give a little sympathy to the torque convertor. Out of curiosity have you checked the fluid quality / level in the gearbox latley ?

Title: Re: 2.9 12V Automatic Problem
Post by ThomasB on Jul 21^st, 2010, 4:09pm

Yep, I have checked the oil level. It is a little bit above max, have thought about draining it a bit.

Title: Re: 2.9 12V Automatic Problem
Post by PJDavis on Jul 21^st, 2010, 10:04pm

Does the 2.9 12V have the 'locking-clutch' of the 24V and 16V 4 cylinder engines?

Title: Re: 2.9 12V Automatic Problem
Post by Mike H on Jul 22^nd, 2010, 12:55am

on 07/21/10 at 14:29:34, Snoopy wrote:

Have you tried doing a manual change at speed?

That's a good idea, make sure whether each ratio works normally

Title: Re: 2.9 12V Automatic Problem
Post by Snoopy on Jul 22^nd, 2010, 7:20am

In reply to PJ AFAIK the 12v " locks up " at 46mph like the other boxes but is not electronic like the later ones. 4th Gear is controlled by vacuum.

Thomas B did you check the level with the engine and gbox HOT and the engine running?

Title: Re: 2.9 12V Automatic Problem
Post by ThomasB on Jul 22^nd, 2010, 10:55am

Yep, I checked the oile after a short trip, so it should be fine. Maybe I´ll just have to live with it and use manual down change when i want to overtake.

Title: Re: 2.9 12V Automatic Problem
Post by ThomasB on Jul 26^th, 2010, 8:36am

Okey. Now I have tried the manual downchange trick, it helps me alot.

My problem seems to be in second gear. If I drive about 50 mph, let of the throttle and manualy change down to third, it changes right away very smooth, but if I go down to second, it refuses to get in gear. A little tickel on the speeder sometimes make it go in gear.

I know it is not very often I have to go down to second gear, it´s more to find out what my problem is.

Would be nice if there where a easy fix to this, though I suspect it is my "valve block in the box" that is the problem.

It is a shame I think, be course the car runs realy well, and quite quick too.

Thomas

Title: Re: 2.9 12V Automatic Problem
Post by Mike H on Jul 27^th, 2010, 12:18pm

Is it worth checking the electrical connectors around the gearbox, there are also solenoid valves that control the hydraulics for each ratio?

Title: Re: 2.9 12V Automatic Problem
Post by ThomasB on Jul 27^th, 2010, 4:57pm

on 07/27/10 at 12:18:56, Mike H wrote:

Is it worth checking the electrical connectors around the gearbox, there are also solenoid valves that control the hydraulics for each ratio?

My box is vacuum controlled, there is only one solenoid and that is for kickdown.

Title: Re: 2.9 12V Automatic Problem
Post by gozz on Jul 27^th, 2010, 10:33pm

Thomas B.
Your box has at least two internal solenoids,the kickdown solenoid is external on the nearside,connected to the lever by a short cable.
GOZZ.

Title: Re: 2.9 12V Automatic Problem
Post by ThomasB on Sep 18^th, 2010, 9:49am

Hi again :)

Ok, now my problem has become unacceptable. My gearbox now refuses to go in to 4 gear, I would realy like to fix this problem, but im not sure where to start. I thought about finding a used "valveblock" for the gearbox and start out by changing that. The gearbox really dosent feel worn out, it is just refusing to get in tho gear.

Du you know what the two solenoids do that gozz mentioned?

Any advice will be appreciated :)

Thomas.

Title: Re: 2.9 12V Automatic Problem
Post by Cosray on Sep 18^th, 2010, 5:24pm

Thomas, I am not at all familiar with your autobox on the 2.9 12v but I did some reading.

I believe the box was inherited from the earlier Granada family: the A4LD (or A4LDe => small/lowercase E to add to the confusion).

The other 95+ Scorpio models have the Electronic A4LDE.

However Google is your friend: there's plenty of information around.

http://bit.ly/9gl0tE

HTH
Ray

Title: Re: 2.9 12V Automatic Problem
Post by gozz on Sep 18^th, 2010, 6:06pm

ThomasB.
The solenoid grounded to the PCM via the white/violet wire controls lock up,the other one,white/blue does 3rd.
GOZZ.

Title: Re: 2.9 12V Automatic Problem
Post by ThomasB on Sep 18^th, 2010, 6:29pm

on 09/18/10 at 18:06:48, gozz wrote:

ThomasB.
The solenoid grounded to the PCM via the white/violet wire controls lock up,the other one,white/blue does 3rd.
GOZZ.

Hi Gozz. What do you mean by lock up? I have no problems with 3rd gear, so that solenoid should be fine right?

Lock up = Park or?

Thomas.

Title: Re: 2.9 12V Automatic Problem
Post by Mike H on Sep 18^th, 2010, 9:45pm

I think he means torque converter lock, (?) i.e. where it ceases to use the oil drive in the torque converter as the engine is locked to the gearbox shaft directly by a clutch.

If I'm talking cobblers someone please say so ;D

If not seen already this might help, 2.9 12V engine control circuit, after about halfway down is the gearbox bits:

http://cid-eb36f845ea9b8fb6.office.live.com/self.aspx/WIRING%20DIAGRAMS/ENGINE%20CONTROL%202-9%2012V%20EFI%20IGNITION.pdf

Title: Re: 2.9 12V Automatic Problem
Post by Cosray on Sep 18^th, 2010, 10:01pm

... in my world it is called overdrive or "prise directe' meaning there's no clutch between driveshaft and powertrain, firmly connected, no shift, no loss.

Apparently in the A4LDsmallE the first 2 gears are switched and controlled hydraulically and by vacuum; 3d and "overdrive" by the old EEC-IV (not EEC-V) which happens to be the PCM on board the 2.9 12v.

The autobox has a kickdown switch, a kickdown relay and a kickdown solenoid. Besides it utilises an Overdrive solenoid and a Shift solenoid for 3/.

Apparently the EPC is a troublemaker as well, see below article!

Also the engine has a MAP (Manifold Absolute Pressure sensor) instead of a MAF (Mass Air Flow sensor). Cor... It is an extension/upgrade of a Granada system!

Meanwhile, Google ;D found this long & interesting article for you, which seems to adress your symptoms in great detail:

http://bit.ly/cjV7oX

HTH
Ray

Title: Re: 2.9 12V Automatic Problem
Post by Dave2302 on Sep 28^th, 2010, 12:52pm

No Guys, the two solenoids inside are for Converter Lock and 4th gear. 1,2 and 3 are hydraulic controlled.
My bet is either the servo's that control the 2 bands, as the front band does 4th gear and the middle band does 2nd, but middle servo also accumulates the 3rd gear shift, hence the thump into 3rd.

If the servo's are okay then its most likely internal failure of the O/D clutch or Sprag, or a governer seal problem, either one necessitating stripdown.

HTH Dave