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        General >> Problems >> Aut.transmission -96_DOCH16V problems
        
(Message started by: runsun on Sep 1^st, 2010, 9:40pm)

Title: Aut.transmission -96_DOCH16V problems
Post by runsun on Sep 1^st, 2010, 9:40pm

Engine idle is normal after starting, but immediately when vehicle are moving - the idle speed is varying and rich fuel mixture are coming out of the exhaust.

I did disconnected the VSS (vehicle speed sensor, at the back of the aut.trans) and the engine was running normal immediately, but the autbox will now - not shift/change gear because of lack of speed pulses.

Its curious that the speedometer clock are function normal, showing correct speed when VSS is connected.
(are the VSS divided in separated signals - one to the speedometer and a second to the control unit)

Any tip !!!! :)
( Speed Control Unit, where can I find it ? )

reg. RS,Norway

Title: Re: Aut.transmission -96_DOCH16V problems
Post by Cosray on Sep 3^rd, 2010, 9:25am

Hi Runsun - you need VSS sensor; if your tacho display is OK do not remove, it is a vital sensor.

My immediate suggestion would be a good MAF cleaning and Lambda sensor check.

Speed control unit - do you mean cruise control? If that is not working properly it could be many things, yes VVS sensor included BUT NOT if tacho OK. There is a control box/regulator. Just follow the second Bowden cable away from the throttle house and you will end up there.

The electronics for Cc sits in the instrument cluster and cannot be corrected. Malfunction is usually caused by corroded connectors at the back of the instrument cluster - so clean.

If you mean IDLE CONTROL it is a complex loop utilising IACT valve in combination with MAF, EEC-V, EDIS.

Check our wonderful website and search for IDLE here, bottom page:

http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/

HTH
Ray

Title: Re: Aut.transmission -96_DOCH16V problems
Post by Scorpio_Mike on Sep 3^rd, 2010, 9:26am

Have you cleaned the MAF ?
Can of carburettor cleaner does the job.
Can make all the difference.

Title: Re: Aut.transmission -96_DOCH16V problems
Post by runsun on Sep 3^rd, 2010, 11:47am

Thanks for tip !

I have performed a ODB test at the local Ford workshop, at a charge of NOK 1250,- (£125,-)
with these result :

P0102 MAF low input
P0141 HO2SHTR12 fault heating circuit
P0340 CMP fault cam position sensor
P1132 HO2S11 fault, shows rich HO2S11
P1479 FCHIGH fault primary circuit

reg Rune S. - Norway

Title: Re: Aut.transmission -96_DOCH16V problems
Post by Cosray on Sep 3^rd, 2010, 6:16pm

Well Rune, you know where to start then don't you..?

BTW What is the P1479 FCHIGH fault primary circuit ?

Found it: P1479 High Fan Control Primary circuit.
relates to the big green relay under the headbeam + EEC-V drivers port & junctionbox.

List of error codes (DTC's)
http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/codes.htm

HTH
Ray

Title: Re: Aut.transmission -96_DOCH16V problems
Post by runsun on Sep 3^rd, 2010, 9:04pm

Thanks for very useful help ! :)

P1479 High Fan Control Primary circuit.
relates to the big green relay under the headbeam + EEC-V drivers port & junctionbox.

Do you know what fan it's related to, Ray ?
Is it a major problem for the engine ?

reg. Rune S.

Title: Re: Aut.transmission -96_DOCH16V problems
Post by Cosray on Sep 3^rd, 2010, 9:20pm

Since the engine has no mechanical fans its cooling depends on two electrical fans.

When the engine performs at peak two fans must be fully engaged. This is what the circuit + the relay does.

Normally the two fans are switched in series and each runs at 6V, so at reduced speed; when more cooling power is needed (mountains, caravan, AIRCO etc.) the two are switched in parallel to 12V nominal voltage.

The EEC-V / PCM calculates this demand and switches the triple relay K45 on /off: so fans normally in series, in parallel at high load.

Apparently the fault code (DTC) indicates a flaw in the circuit: bad contact?, relay not responding?, fans not running at high speed? toghether with the other reported DTC's, possibly are urging the EEC-V to command the engine to run in LOS - Limited Operating Strategy, thus performing badly.

Read here:

http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/eecv.htm
under "Gearbox - Powertrain Control Module"

Find diagram here, chapter 29-03-012:

http://cid-eb36f845ea9b8fb6.office.live.com/self.aspx/WIRING%20DIAGRAMS/ENGINE%20CONTROL%202-0L%2016V%20EFI%20%5E5AUTO%5E6%20IGNITION.pdf

This document shows all relevant sensors, realays, cats etc. comncerning engine management in their context.

HTH
Ray

Title: Re: Aut.transmission -96_DOCH16V problems
Post by Mike H on Sep 4^th, 2010, 12:41pm

"Rich" exhaust sounds familiar, I had that. (also 2L 16V) In addition to new air filter I had to ~

on 09/03/10 at 11:47:33, runsun wrote:

P0102 MAF low input

~ get a new MAF, cleaning wasn't good enough it was obviously "tired" (worn out)

Quote:

P0141 HO2SHTR12 fault heating circuit

I also had to have new O2 sensors, both (wouldn't pass MOT else) NB the sensors include internal electric heaters, think this code means they don't work

Quote:

P0340 CMP fault cam position sensor

This could just be bad wiring, the wiring to the coil packs and spark plugs is fried, and involves the CMP wiring as well, a favourite problem with the 16V's

Quote:

P1132 HO2S11 fault, shows rich HO2S11

As above

Due to the rich running meant the catalytic converter was shot as well and had to be renewed.

Title: Re: Aut.transmission -96_DOCH16V problems
Post by Mike H on Sep 4^th, 2010, 12:49pm

Appendix ~ in addition all the the autobox "problems" were magically cured by the above as well ;D

Title: Re: Aut.transmission -96_DOCH16V problems
Post by Cosray on Sep 4^th, 2010, 12:56pm

Mike H -- with Scorpio's of at least 12 years old, in retrospect, it is all sooo predictable isn't it?
;-)

Good points you are making!
Rune, any progress there?

Curious
Ray

Title: Re: Aut.transmission -96_DOCH16V problems
Post by Tompion on Sep 4^th, 2010, 1:31pm

Don’t forget some of the faults may be old & have already been corrected - but the fault codes haven’t been cleared.

Title: Re: Aut.transmission -96_DOCH16V problems
Post by Tompion on Sep 4^th, 2010, 1:47pm

P0141 Downstream Heated Oxygen Sensor Heater circuit fault - Bank No. 1.
Most 16v’s don’t have a downstream sensor & presumably if it has one it’s not all that relevant to the running of the engine.

It should drive OK with the cam position sensor or the MAF disconnected.

It would probably be worth buying a cheap reader & clearing the codes to see which return.

Simmo had a U480 reader at the Kent meet from This site (http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Galactic-Warehouse_Handheld-Diagnostic-Systems_W0QQ_fsubZ1392581014QQ_sidZ62951714QQ_trksidZp4634Q2ec0Q2em322)

It even worked on Daven’s 2.3 which no one had managed to do previously.
We introduced a fault & cleared it to check it functioned OK.

Title: Re: Aut.transmission -96_DOCH16V problems
Post by Tompion on Sep 4^th, 2010, 3:27pm

Worth checking fuse 40 Hego sensor (although on my 2.3 this produces P0135 Upstream Heated Oxygen Sensor Heater circuit fault - Bank No. 1.)

Title: Re: Aut.transmission -96_DOCH16V problems
Post by Mike H on Sep 5^th, 2010, 1:15pm

on 09/04/10 at 13:47:19, Tompion wrote:

Most 16v’s don’t have a downstream sensor

Not sure about that, mine's August '95 and it's got both (?). And when you buy any cat for one it's got thread holes for both

Quote:

& presumably if it has one it’s not all that relevant to the running of the engine.

Possibly, but must be there for a reason ;D

Think the PCM uses it to check how the cat is doing and thus make sure it's not getting too much unburnt fuel and all that sort of thing

Title: Re: Aut.transmission -96_DOCH16V problems
Post by Mike H on Sep 5^th, 2010, 1:36pm

on 09/04/10 at 12:56:37, Cosray wrote:

Mike H -- with Scorpio's of at least 12 years old, in retrospect, it is all sooo predictable isn't it?

Yes and had gone on like that "unfixed" for probably five years! (and just getting worse) Which leads me to imagine the two previous owners probably thought it was an "OK" car as far as 'performance' goes, but not all that marvellous. Hence shucked onto somebody else after a couple of years

Title: Re: Aut.transmission -96_DOCH16V problems
Post by Tompion on Sep 5^th, 2010, 2:22pm

on 09/05/10 at 13:15:52, Mike H wrote:

Not sure about that, mine's August '95 and it's got both (?). And when you buy any cat for one it's got thread holes for both

Mine has the hole in the cat blanked off for the downstream sensor it also has the wiring in place. I have checked & that is correct for my car (indeed the microcat shows a sensor/blanking plug as appropriate for the individual car).

on 09/05/10 at 13:15:52, Mike H wrote:

Possibly, but must be there for a reason ;D

Think the PCM uses it to check how the cat is doing and thus make sure it's not getting too much unburnt fuel and all that sort of thing

People say the downstream sensor is less important with regard running issues on the Cossi so I assume it’s the same for the 16v. Whether it’s there for a reason wasn’t my point I was suggesting it probably isn’t the cause of the issues.

Title: Re: Aut.transmission -96_DOCH16V problems
Post by Cosray on Sep 12^th, 2010, 10:02am

... interesting to notice that the OP Rune wasn't here since 10 days... and the thread happily runs on... are we dedicated or are we..?

;-)
Ray

Title: Re: Aut.transmission -96_DOCH16V problems
Post by runsun on Sep 13^th, 2010, 11:03am

Sorry, here is the final solution - after hours with test and measurement.

The problem was : Engine idle is normal after starting, but immediately when vehicle are moving - the idle speed is varying and rich fuel mixture are coming out of the exhaust.

Solution : New wiring from the VSS sensor til port 58 at the PCM and further to port 26 at the instrument cluster (speedometer) All function are now working normal.

Thanks for all useful help at this forum, couldn't make it without ! :)

reg. Rune S - Norway

Title: Re: Aut.transmission -96_DOCH16V problems
Post by Mike H on Sep 15^th, 2010, 1:01am

Electrical gremlins again!

Title: Re: Aut.transmission -96_DOCH16V problems
Post by runsun on Sep 20^th, 2010, 7:18pm

I have ordered OBD diagnosis tool from this address : http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.28528 at a cost of $28, incl.freight.

It's working perfect for windows XP (easy handling), I can recommend this OBD tool for those who want a low-priced aid assistant. :)

Reg. Rune S.

Title: Re: Aut.transmission -96_DOCH16V problems
Post by Cosray on Sep 20^th, 2010, 7:39pm

Great information Rune - thanks for sharing with the Forum!

Ray