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        General >> Problems >> Cold Idle Stall
        
(Message started by: skd on Oct 5^th, 2010, 12:00am)

Title: Cold Idle Stall
Post by skd on Oct 5^th, 2010, 12:00am

Hi, I have DOHC 2.0 8v and live these days in rural Tasmania where there is not much local expertise with this "foreign" engine.

Sypmtoms: On cold start goes to 1500+rpm for 4-5 seconds, then drops to zero unless you intervene on the accelerator. When hot sometimes hangs at 1500-2000rpm before dropping to tickover at 800rpm. (Used to stall sometimes at this point but treatment to date has improved this aspect.) Pinks under load and seems underpowered. Mechanic says is running very lean.

Treatment so far: Thorough check for vacuum leaks. Replaced upstream NOX sensor. Replaced Engine Coolant Temp sensor (a drama as brass insert came out with old fitting). Clean the MAF. Tried a replacement MAF. Ran thorough fuel sytem cleaning treatment through. Inspected and cleaned Air Idle Valve.

Mechanic says fuel pressure is good. Wiring loom is in good condition.

Next step is to send computer to Melbourne for expensive testing/replacement.

I hope moderator permits this post as you are probably aware the Scorpio is rare if not non-existant in Australia. My vehicle is 1999 smiley face Transit Bus with 250,000km.

Title: Re: Cold Idle Stall
Post by Mike H on Oct 5^th, 2010, 12:34am

this kind of behaviour come up just recently on another topic, most likely cuplrit ~ eliminating the 'more obvious' like MAF, idle valve etc. ~ was throttle position sensor. The black thing where the throttle cable terminates in. Basically just an electrical potentiometer and can wear out / fail.

Does anybody else concur?

Running lean may be because the computer thinks the throttle is shut and so is only providing enough fuel accordingly, but I'm just guessing. And wildly at that ;D

Title: Re: Cold Idle Stall
Post by Highlander on Oct 5^th, 2010, 9:11am

So your 2.0 8v is in a Transit?

Title: Re: Cold Idle Stall
Post by skd on Oct 5^th, 2010, 1:13pm

Yes. It was this quote in Wikipedia that got me looking at your Scorpio site for help:-

"A major facelift to the Transit in 1994/5 gave the Transit a new nose and dashboard, along with the 2.0 L DOHC 8-valve engine as found in the 1994 to 1998 Ford Scorpio. It is similar to the earlier Sierra DOHC unit but without the distributor and uses the updated OBD II-compliant EEC-V level engine control unit."

It struggles a bit at the best of time pushing such a big lump of metal around. Most Transits I see over here have turbo diesels. Years ago they used a long nose version with an Australian Ford 3litre straight six.

Title: Re: Cold Idle Stall
Post by Mike H on Oct 5^th, 2010, 2:54pm

Yes I can see how it'd be a mite OTT for the 8V 2 litre

Title: Re: Cold Idle Stall
Post by Highlander on Oct 5^th, 2010, 3:44pm

Does sound like a MAF or TPS, did you try a known working MAF on it?

Can you get an OBD scan done?

The 2.0 8v was fitted to the Scorpio but as far as I believe it wasnt in huge numbers, its not one thats mentioned a lot on the forum compared to the 16v, 12v, 24v and the diesels (I've had 30+ Scorpios and never had an 8v yet)

You may well get more info and experiences with that engine on the transit forum

http://fordtransit.org/forum/

I know there are a good few from Oz and NZ on there too ;)

Title: Re: Cold Idle Stall
Post by gozz on Oct 5^th, 2010, 7:27pm

skd.
The old Mk1 Transit started with V4 petrols ,when the Perkins diesel was fitted they lengthened the nose to take the extra length engine,you could then get a 3 litre V6,these were used mainly in ambulance and police vehicles,I can't imagine what the beasts looked like with an inline six,must have resembled Concorde ;D
GOZZ.

Title: Re: Cold Idle Stall
Post by skd on Oct 5^th, 2010, 10:06pm

Thanks Guys for the pointers. I will take myself off to the Transit forum.

30 odd years ago I drove a staight 6 3litre Transit for the Australian Post Office (I had blue uniform just like Postman Pat) It went like the clappers! They fitted it into the long nose diesel shape.

Sorry to drift off topic.

Thanks for the help. :)

Title: Re: Cold Idle Stall
Post by Snoopy on Oct 6^th, 2010, 7:31am

You are more than welcome to stay on here and enjoy the banter if you wish, and get the occasional pointer!

Title: Re: Cold Idle Stall
Post by skd on Oct 6^th, 2010, 8:13am

Thanks Snoopy, I might just keep an eye on this thread and see if anyone else has any ideas.

To answer Highlander's questions:-

My mechanic did get hold of a replacement MAF. $100 to "borrow" it and $450 to purchase if it did the trick. The $100 charge is to cover them checking it on return and sealing it up in new package. Didn't seem to make any difference so it was sent back. However, disconnecting the MAF entirely also didn't seem to make much difference. Mechanic was advised by one of his parts suppliers who runs a small fleet that they often run them around with the MAFs disconnected.

He does have access to some sort of electronic diagnostic tool and a big book of codes. This is what first led him to replace the NOX sensor ($280!) I don't know what codes came up but he is very organised (keeps cat litter handy to mop up any oil spills) so probably has a record if it would help.

I squirted some carb cleaner in the vicinity of the TPS, and some WD40 on the electrical connector. There may be a bit of an improvement. I did the "disconnect battery to reset" thing. Missus has taken it off to town (120km round trip) and will know soon if it has been behaving itself. TPS itself looks awkward to get out - on Transit it is on opposite side of throttle body from the cable linkage. May have to take out the temp sensors to get at it, and after what happened last time I think a job for mechanic perhaps.

Thanks for indulging a non Scorpio owner!

Title: Re: Cold Idle Stall
Post by gozz on Oct 6^th, 2010, 8:45am

skd.
If your TPS is anything like the 2.3,you need to take the throttle housing off,a very simple ten minute operation,four screws and the vacuum pipe,leave the cable in situ.
GOZZ.

Title: Re: Cold Idle Stall
Post by Mike H on Oct 6^th, 2010, 1:16pm

on 10/06/10 at 08:13:55, skd wrote:

$100 to "borrow" it and $450 to purchase if it did the trick

What the ...? http://livinginthepast-audioweb.co.uk/images/misc/th_pffft.gif

Mine was 50 odd UK pounds brand new, I doubt the exchange rate is that c*ck-eyed lol

'ello can't wite c*ck on the forum!

* = 'o' ;D

Title: Re: Cold Idle Stall
Post by skd on Oct 7^th, 2010, 2:48pm

Tell me about the exchange rate! I'm living out here on a pension from UK and it's not funny. The NOX sensor that didn't make any difference was $280 (£180). However other things are cheaper and the quality of life etc is a great improvement on SW London where I was based for many years.

Title: Re: Cold Idle Stall
Post by Mike H on Oct 7^th, 2010, 7:38pm

Yes I expect so! ;D

£180 is not too far off what it is here actually