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        General >> Problems >> Idlespeed 2500 when engine is warm 2.9 24V
        
(Message started by: oely on Oct 6^th, 2010, 12:32pm)

Title: Idlespeed 2500 when engine is warm 2.9 24V
Post by oely on Oct 6^th, 2010, 12:32pm

Hi,

At first I would like to say hello.
I am Pascal and just bought my first Cothworth.
Here is the ebay link http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140457066557&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT#ht_968wt_1139
I live in Germany and registrated myself in this forum because there is no good german one.
Caused by the fact that I am new in this scene and because the car makes some trouble I would like to ask some questions to get help.
Because of languag barrier it can happen that I don`t get everything right or you probably have problems to understand me. In case please ask. I will do my best but especially my writing is not so good because usually I just speek english sometimes and never write.

So my first Problem is :
After starting the engine idle speed is 1000 RPM.When it gets warm idle drops down to 700 RPM. After a short ride when engine reches normal temperature idel is 2500 RPM in neutral and round about 1600 in drive position. So the car goes 60 K`s minimum.
The preowner changed mainofold inlet including gaskets, throttlebody, idlestabiliser( right word ? ), mass air flow sensor and more. The parts he used were used ones and the job was done by a ford dealer.
When he does high idle and I pull of and reinstall mass air flow sensor idle drops to normal RPM. A few seconds later the engine shuts off. When I restard it it runs normal for a while.
So do you have a idea or have had the same problem some day ?
ECU ?
I tried to read the ECU but my OBD2 Handheld which is usally working on Ford, BMW, VW, Mercedes etc is not doing anything when I put it on the OBD port ?
Is it blocked from Ford or just dead ?

Second Problem :
When cold the autogearbox needs some time ( 3 seconds ) to go. First and reverse the same.
When driving and stopping somewhere ( normal Idlespeed ) there is no power and it feels like neutral for a while.

Third problem :
while driving ( 60 K´s/h min ) and stepping slightly on the gas it feels a littlebit like my Landrover with dameged transferbox. It makes a little "shock" trought the drivetrain. The same when sudenly taking away the foot from gaspedal.

The fourth Problem :
Exaust is done need new one and I am not sure if I realy what to build one by mythelf ... Do you know someone to by a complete system from ? How much would it be ?
I tried to serch the Forum but I could not find any of this themes matching my Problems so it would be great if you could help me out.

Thanks and greets
-Pascal-

Title: Re: Idlespeed 2500 when engine is warm 2.9 24V
Post by Mike H on Oct 6^th, 2010, 1:50pm

Hello Pascal and willkommen! ;D

Only my few suggestions, other members will have more I am sure.

In my owner handbook as comes with car when new, it says that autobox should not take longer than 4 seconds to engage forward or reverse when selected with lever. So 3 seconds is quite normal and within limits. Mine is same! I have noticed is longest time if idle speed is low, e.g. 700 - 800 rpm, quicker if idle speed higher e.g. 1,000 rpm. So depends on speed of fluid pump in gearbox, which is driven by engine. ;D

Extra note ~ if idle speed is fast, it will "thump"

I think mine also may vary idle 700 - 1,000, I think it depends on temperature, anyway is not a problem.

You say previous owner put in used MAF, and other parts, I may suggest this MAF is too old and still not good. Better with a new one, my opinion only.

Other possible reasons, bad throttle position sensor, bad exhaust oxygen sensor(s), air leaks to inlet manifold (check the small vacuum pipes, 'T' connectors), idle control valve still not right, can also be just electrical wiring problem including corroded plugs!

There are others here much more expert with the V6 engine than I am. ;D

Title: Re: Idlespeed 2500 when engine is warm 2.9 24V
Post by Mike H on Oct 6^th, 2010, 1:53pm

Appendix ~ is rare that ECU is faulty, much more likely is getting wrong input signals so problems with sensors is usually the case

Title: Re: Idlespeed 2500 when engine is warm 2.9 24V
Post by Highlander on Oct 6^th, 2010, 1:54pm

Hello Pascal and Welcome ;D

Problem 1 :

I would check and clean the Idle Control Valve to make sure it is working and fitted the correct way, I have seen them fitted the wrong way which gives a fast idle.

This is the correct fitting (looking from the back of the engine)

http://i54.tinypic.com/20qe177.jpg

I wouls also check for air leaks/breaks in the vaccuum pipes especially as they have been disturbed.

http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/vacuumpipesg.htm

Problem 2 :

Check your autobox fluid level using the correct method

http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/autogearbox.htm

from your description i would say if the oil level is ok then it sounds like the autobox filter may need changing

eg. once the oil has warmed up and is thinner then it changes gears ok?

http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/aboxfilters.htm

Problem 3 :

Have a look underneath at the propshaft centre bearing, Universal joint, Differential and especially the CV joints for play or loose bolts

I'd guess at a CV joint as the most common problem.

Problem 4 :

In the UK we have found having a stainless steel exhaust fabricated by a specialist company the best solution

Title: Re: Idlespeed 2500 when engine is warm 2.9 24V
Post by oely on Oct 6^th, 2010, 4:41pm

Hi Mike and Highlander,

OK if it is normal that a cold gearbox is so slow then I will just fix the engine change gearboxoil and try it again. Probably with a new filter and oil the box is working fine.
The C4 in my 65 Mustang was also not faster but i thought Ford had done something within the last 45 Jears ...
Anyway its good enought for cruising.

And yes it makes a realy heavy "thump" when you go into drive position with 2500 RPM. I had to refil gas befor bringing the car home and I drove of the gasstation with slightly screeching tyres ... People probably thought I am just a stupid nut.
Probably this is also the reason why the CV`s or the propshaft center bearing died.

I am just sitting under the car and I will check the cv`s today and the center bearing when I took the exhaust of.
The diff seems to be fine and dry.
By the way the cv`s look a little bit tiny for such a big engine do they ?

Thanks for the vaccum link.
I will check all these hoses and also the control valve.
If it is mounted wrong is idle speed high at any temperature ?

I also thought about buing a new MAF but two with the same Problem ?

Anyway if I can`t find a Vacuum leek, cleaned the electric plugs, mesured them and so on I have to start changing parts ...

How much is a stainless steel version ? Could you please post a link or send it to me via PM ?
The middlepipe in Germany is round about 1000€ the two flexible tubes connecting the middlepipe to cat are 250€ each and I did not ask for the price of the rearpipe.
This is defenetly to expensive and I thought about installing the two Flowmaster 44 I took out of the Mustang.
The only problem will be that the car will be to loud I think.
With the 289 ci engine it was defenetly to much.

Has anybody build a own exhaustsystem ?

Tahnks

Title: Re: Idlespeed 2500 when engine is warm 2.9 24V
Post by Mike H on Oct 7^th, 2010, 6:46pm

on 10/06/10 at 16:41:39, oely wrote:

OK if it is normal that a cold gearbox is so slow then I will just fix the engine change gearboxoil and try it again. Probably with a new filter and oil the box is working fine.

I think so, especailly if you do not know the maintenance history of the car. Some people think the same autobox oil stays in "for life" ;D

Quote:

Probably this is also the reason why the CV`s or the propshaft center bearing died.

Quite possible, I think it urgent you fix idling problem.

Quote:

I also thought about buing a new MAF but two with the same Problem ?

Again quite possible, if you take age into account, then and also by my own experience I would treat any used one as suspect.

1,000 Euros for a centre section is a lot, half that is still a lot IMO, but I do not know SS prices (?)

Title: Re: Idlespeed 2500 when engine is warm 2.9 24V
Post by pinto on Oct 7^th, 2010, 10:48pm

Most companies would build you a COMPLETE catalyser-back stainless exhaust for no more than 5-600 euro; the price for standard ford exhaust parts are extortionate here in the UK too !

I'd shop around locally at performance garages and see if any would be prepared to make the system for you; in this country, we mainly see Powerflow or Voortech exhausts made to measure. I guess if no-one can help you, you're only a drive and a ferry trip from the UK, and a weekend break plus the exhaust would be cheaper than buying the standard system !

When you say 289 ci, you mean the 1970's mustang that used a modified 2.8 cologne ? you could probably work that to fit with some adaptions.

As to noise, the 24v engine tends to sound more composed and subtle than the 12v colognes - until it hits its powerband and then it wails like a banshee ! lol

Personally, i love the noise :D

Title: Re: Idlespeed 2500 when engine is warm 2.9 24V
Post by oely on Oct 13^th, 2010, 11:49am

moin,

last days I spend in Hamburg and had a little time out so nothing happend with the Scorpio untill now.
I will find time to do the job in the middle of the next week and write here what I have done.

@ mike

lifetime oil is stupid

the car is not in use so i will not destroy more of the drivetrain.

the car is from 95 and the mapsensor is also from 95.

@ pinto
It would be great if you could check this out for me.
It is also possible to go to southern GB by car and get the exhaust done somewhere there. I plan to visit the Landrover show in Billing next jear. I still own my LR 90 Defender and plan to by some bigger parts.

My Mustag was a 1965 4.7 liter V8. So not comperable with the scorpioengine.

Greets
-Pascal-

Title: Re: Idlespeed 2500 when engine is warm 2.9 24V
Post by Mike H on Oct 15^th, 2010, 11:02pm

I would think the MAF is "tired" then, mine was original too most likely