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Title: 2.5 Diesel no turbo boost P1225 fault code? Post by Geoff_W on Nov 9th, 2010, 9:55am Folks I have commented elsewhere about my new 2.5 and it seeming a bit sluggish, it looks like the turbo is not kicking in at all. It will gradually get up to 70-80 but you can write a book in the time that it takes. Any thoughts or ideas about checks and options? Geoff |
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Title: Re: 2.5 Diesel no turbo help at all Post by Highlander on Nov 9th, 2010, 10:22am Does it rev up ok Geoff? no air leaks or smoke? I'm right out of turbos too! :-/ |
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Title: Re: 2.5 Diesel no turbo help at all Post by Geoff_W on Nov 9th, 2010, 12:14pm Stuart It revs fine, but as I have said elsewhere its fine up to 2500 then takes an age to build up speed when under load. I was at Houghton le Spring yesterday and pulling on to the A19 up a gradual incline could not get above 50 for about 2 miles, not popular in the rush hour! Cruised back at 70ish when I got the revs up to 3000 but really tricky before then D & 3 seem to be identical, but perhaps thats another problem to look at. No obvious air leaks to hear, bit of white smoke on startup this last couple of cold days. Geoff |
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Title: Re: 2.5 Diesel no turbo help at all Post by Highlander on Nov 9th, 2010, 12:58pm Have you had a look here? http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/replacemap.htm I have a spare MAP if you want to try it? Oh its an auto?? |
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Title: Re: 2.5 Diesel no turbo help at all Post by Geoff_W on Nov 9th, 2010, 8:55pm Stuart, Looking at the description, that looks to be a spot on description of what I am experiencing. Yep its an Ultima auto only thing its missing is a heated front screen and trip computer and perhaps reversing sensors. I really want to persevere with it. Had new disks and pads today and had the tracking done and it handles beautifully but can scarcely pull the skin of a rice pudding. Would like to try the MAP to see if that may be the thing, will check connections to it in the morning to see if it may be loose. Geoff |
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Title: Re: 2.5 Diesel no turbo help at all Post by Geoff_W on Nov 10th, 2010, 9:57pm Stuart you have a PM |
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Title: Re: 2.5 Diesel no turbo help at all Post by gozz on Nov 10th, 2010, 11:31pm Geoff. Has your diesel box got the old vacuum unit on the offside connected via a pipe running across the top of the box ?,if the pipe leaks or the diaphragm splits,top gear is unobtainable I have found. GOZZ. |
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Title: Re: 2.5 Diesel no turbo help at all Post by Geoff_W on Nov 11th, 2010, 11:14pm GOZZ Presumably that would also mean no turbo. Geoff |
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Title: Re: 2.5 Diesel no turbo help at all Post by gozz on Nov 11th, 2010, 11:26pm Wouldn't think so Geoff,just no top gear. GOZZ. |
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Title: Re: 2.5 Diesel no turbo help at all Post by Geoff_W on Nov 11th, 2010, 11:36pm Wouldn't the loss of vacuum also stop the turbo from spinning up? Maybe not then. |
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Title: Re: 2.5 Diesel no turbo help at all Post by Geoff_W on Nov 16th, 2010, 1:41pm Connections all seem sound, no obvious leaks or whistles so going to try a replacement MAP and see if that improves matters. |
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Title: Re: 2.5 Diesel no turbo help at all Post by Geoff_W on Nov 20th, 2010, 4:47pm Fitted the replacement MAP this afternoon, £29.95 new from e bay. Is there any difference? Probably not. engine seems a little smoother up to 2500 rpm, no obvious pick up from turbo though I did read that the MAP may need programming. Anybody know more about that? Are there fault codes available on the 2.5 VM diesel and what sort of reader is involved? Still find the the top two gears of the automatic box are identical so no overdrive in D apparent and no kickdown, further to Gozz's earlier comment I think that may be vacuum related as the diesel just has an A4LD box with no fancy electrics (I think). Who are our resident diesel advisers, any ideas? Geoff |
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Title: Re: 2.5 Diesel no turbo boost Post by mazzy_j on Nov 25th, 2010, 2:45pm On my auto derv the only sign of the turbo kicking in is a quiet whistle as the autobox seems to hide the kick my manual one has at about 1750rpm. The torque converter lock-up engages in 4th (not sure if it does in 3rd aswell i've never noticed it) at about 50mph upwards at light throttle. I haven't had to touch any vacuum pipes to the geabox so can't comment on that I'm afraid. No vacuum shouldn't effect the turbo, although i think on the later tds the wastegate is operated by a vacuum solenoid controlled electronically as apposed to using the pressure in the turbo itself to activate it. What sort of state are the air and fuel filters in? When I first got my auto it lacked power and would take an age to start, turned out the fuel filter wasn't seated correctly on the larger top o-ring and so was letting air in. Probably unrelated but worth a quick look. Matt |
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Title: Re: 2.5 Diesel no turbo boost Post by Geoff_W on Jan 5th, 2011, 12:05pm Happy New Year!!!! Update, fault Code P1225 Needle lift valve recorded and can't be cleared. Would that fit with the situation? Any ideas? |
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Title: Re: 2.5 Diesel no turbo help at all Post by Mike H on Jan 9th, 2011, 1:58pm The computer thinks there's a problem! So highly likely yes ;D What's a "needle valve" do? on 11/11/10 at 23:36:57, Geoff_W wrote:
Turbo is spun by the exhaust gas. |
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Title: Re: 2.5 Diesel no turbo boost P1225 fault code? Post by Geoff_W on Jan 9th, 2011, 6:53pm Thanks Mike, I understand that. In fact having had a look at this about the turbo http://www.turbocharger-solutions.co.uk/faultdiagnosis And this about the needle valve http://www.engine-codes.com/P1225.html I have a much better idea how things work on the 2.5 diesel than I did in November. However still not got it sorted, hope to in the next week or so, but we shall see. ;) |
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Title: Re: 2.5 Diesel no turbo boost P1225 fault code? Post by scorpio_man on Jan 9th, 2011, 8:18pm hi Geoff have you had the battery off this car? if not, might be an idea as yours is a 'newer' diesel (iirc), it will have the 'fly by wire' throttle. with the battery off, check around the throttle housing (if there is one) for any dodgy wiring and also at the throttle pedal. i'm not completely sure how it all works, but if there's no cable attached to the throttle, it must get some sort of reading from the pedal. if that signal is unreliable, then maybe it goes into a limp home type strategy. hope this helps a bit. |
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Title: Re: 2.5 Diesel no turbo boost P1225 fault code? Post by Geoff_W on Jan 9th, 2011, 10:19pm Thanks Andrew, Good point, will disconnect battery and see what I can see. In any case, having fitted a new MAP sensor it may welcome the chance to re-initialise afterwards. |
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Title: Re: 2.5 Diesel no turbo boost P1225 fault code? Post by Mike H on Jan 10th, 2011, 3:27pm Ah! So accelerator pedal just works a potentiometer. No Bowden cable. Dodgy potentiometer? |
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Title: Re: 2.5 Diesel no turbo boost P1225 fault code? Post by Geoff_W on Jan 11th, 2011, 8:11pm OK folks, does anyone have a link to the wiring diagrams for the injection and ECM systems on the 2.5 diesel? Or can anybody give me a steer as to where I can find them. Ta Geoff |
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Title: Re: 2.5 Diesel no turbo boost P1225 fault code? Post by Simmo on Jan 11th, 2011, 10:10pm Try This link (http://www.drich2422.ukfsn.org/SCORPIO_WIRING%20DIAGRAMS/) Courtesy of Snoopy. ;) and This one (http://cid-eb36f845ea9b8fb6.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/WIRING%20DIAGRAMS) likewise. :) |
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Title: Re: 2.5 Diesel no turbo boost P1225 fault code? Post by Geoff_W on Jan 12th, 2011, 12:51pm Thanks - Mike and Dave Just the thing! Geoff |
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Title: Re: 2.5 Diesel no turbo boost P1225 fault code? Post by Geoff_W on Jan 12th, 2011, 11:05pm Ok Have wiring diagram from Simmo's previous post with pin numbering but would appreciate if anybody has a drawing or picture of the ecu pin configuration with some indication of the numbering? (2.5VM diesel auto post 97) There have been a number of posts from people with the 2.5 diesel with same symptoms/power loss problem. A new number 1 injector with extra sensor typically come in around 220gbp to 245gbp depending on source so really want to check continuity before making that sort of buying decision. Ta Geoff |
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Title: Re: 2.5 Diesel no turbo boost P1225 fault code? Post by Geoff_W on Jan 16th, 2011, 5:40pm Bearing in mind that my 2.5 is the fly by wire variety and that I had changed the PCM before Christmas, I have taken Andrew's advice to disconnect the battery so that the new PCM can go through a learning cycle. RESULT!!! Much smoother going through the gears, changes up earlier and also revs more freely, even suspect that I am now getting some turbo assistance. Car is much better. Even so I am still trying to get to the bottom of the P1225 error message and have it booked in at my local Bosch garage and tuning centre for them to have a look at it on Wednesday. (Good people who do proper work) I will keep you informed how things go. I realise that this will not be as responsive as the petrol Scorps but really feeling happier now. Geoff |
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Title: Re: 2.5 Diesel no turbo boost P1225 fault code? UP Post by Geoff_W on Jan 29th, 2011, 10:18pm Number 1 injector has no signal to the ECU, so though getting general improvement the injection system is not functioning as it should and that will be giving me some of my other less desirable running issues on my fly by wire diesel Ultima. Having a new (flown in from Cologne) number 1 injector fitted on Tuesday which should resolve the error message but more importantly improve fuel metering to the other injectors. On the face of it this seems an expensive fix but with a 70 litre tank of diesel coming in at £93 gbp then if it is wasting fuel I need to get it sorted. Just completed a 382 mile journey (Pontefract - Newcastle on Tyne - Llandudno) on 60 litres of diesel tank to tank about 31.2mpg Will see what sort of difference on the next long trip. |
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Title: Re: 2.5 Diesel no turbo boost P1225 fault code? Post by Geoff_W on Feb 1st, 2011, 6:09pm New injector fitted today and it now goes like a scalded moggy. Turbo comes in and whoosh off we go. Fault code cancelled ok. Will have to see what impact is on fuel consumption. |
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Title: Re: 2.5 Diesel no turbo boost P1225 fault code? Post by Matt on Feb 1st, 2011, 6:20pm how much was the new no1 injector if you dont mind me asking? |
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Title: Re: 2.5 Diesel no turbo boost P1225 fault code? Post by Geoff_W on Feb 1st, 2011, 6:54pm Lots! Not for a weak heart. Stuart was right that injector is sought after so I have bitten the bullet and bought new. The car is absolutely transformed. Exchange from Ford of Germany £206 Bosch do a new one for about £230 I will be keeping a close eye on fuel consumption to see if there is a break even point. Off to Liverpool tomorrow. |
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Title: Re: 2.5 Diesel no turbo boost P1225 fault code? Post by SteveO on Feb 2nd, 2011, 11:55am I have the same problem. Luckily I have a donor VM diesel that worked fine and am in the process of swapping things over. So far I've done the MAF, MAP, EGR and all pipes connected but no change in the symptoms. Will try to swap the #1 injector on the weekend and keep you posted. Steve |
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Title: Re: 2.5 Diesel no turbo boost P1225 fault code? Post by Geoff_W on Feb 2nd, 2011, 9:40pm Steve, Should be straightforward provided that you have slotted injector socket to take the wire. In my case it had to be a ring spanner a bit at a time, measuring turns so as to get an approximate torque. Good luck Geoff |
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Title: Re: 2.5 Diesel no turbo boost P1225 fault code? Post by SteveO on Feb 3rd, 2011, 9:53am Fingers crossed it's a straight swap. I'll keep you posted. |
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Title: Re: 2.5 Diesel no turbo boost P1225 fault code? Post by SteveO on Feb 9th, 2011, 11:04am Hello Geoff, it's been a bit hectic and I haven't got round to making the swap yet. A more important job is to replace the snapped shock absorber spring that went on Sunday morning..... Can you remember the size of spanner/socket need to get the injector out? I may have to borrow one as it looks bigger than I have at the moment. Would I be right in guessing that the braided pipes are only push-fit? Cheers, Steve |
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Title: Re: 2.5 Diesel no turbo boost P1225 fault code? Post by Geoff_W on Feb 9th, 2011, 12:42pm Yes braided pipes are push fit, you may find it worthwhile considering replacing them if they are becoming fragile like mine. Will get back to you with spanner size as I worked with several until we found the right one. Good luck with the spring. Car still going well but not had any decent trips to get a clear sense of mpg, shame Ford chose not to fit the same drive computer as fitted to the petrol versions, but i guess that was something to do with the diesel injection systems on the diesel. |
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Title: Re: 2.5 Diesel no turbo boost P1225 fault code? Post by SteveO on Feb 9th, 2011, 1:46pm MPG is good at the moment. I guess changing up at 2200rpm is pretty conservative. I got 37mpg on a cruise at 75mph from Yorkshire last week. Over the last 1000 miles I've averaged 32; my auto used to average 27 around town and 34 on a motorway run but it had done 50k more miles. |
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Title: Re: 2.5 Diesel no turbo boost P1225 fault code? Post by SteveO on Feb 13th, 2011, 5:37pm Hello Geoff, the braided pipes were rotten on my old Scorpio and had to sliced off so I'll probably get some new ones. Did you go to Ford or is there some other supplier tha I could use? I borrowed some big deep sockets from a pal but none fitted the plug so I'm off to my local garage to scrounge tomorrow. Cheers, Steve |
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Title: Re: 2.5 Diesel no turbo boost P1225 fault code? Post by Matt on Feb 13th, 2011, 7:24pm if your talking about the little overspill pipes on the injectors then pretty much any motor factors will have it |
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Title: Re: 2.5 Diesel no turbo boost P1225 fault code? Post by Geoff_W on Feb 13th, 2011, 10:29pm Steve, the braided tubing came in a length from a factors, cut to size and a tight fit, pushed on. |
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Title: Re: 2.5 Diesel no turbo boost P1225 fault code? Post by SteveO on Feb 14th, 2011, 9:53am Thanks gents. I'll take a bit of the old piping with me to get the correct size. |
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Title: Re: 2.5 Diesel no turbo boost P1225 fault code? Post by Geoff_W on Feb 27th, 2011, 8:18pm Steve, how are things coming along? The injector size socket has been moved to here: http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=admin;action=display;num=1298323827 Have you been able to swap out that number 1 injector and has it had the desired result? Mine is running surprisingly smoothly at the moment and mpg is looking better. Geoff |
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Title: Re: 2.5 Diesel no turbo boost P1225 fault code? Post by SteveO on Feb 28th, 2011, 9:20am It's a >:( job at the moment Geoff. The socket I bought is too wide to drop all the way down over the head of the injector. We've turned it down on a lathe once but it's still too 'fat'. Will turn it down another 1mm today and try again this evening. If only the local Ford garage would hire theirs to me for an hour........ |
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Title: Re: 2.5 Diesel no turbo boost P1225 fault code? Post by SteveO on Feb 28th, 2011, 5:48pm At last, but not the way I expected......... I called into the local Ford garage to ask for the outside diameter of their socket but they've 'lost' it since Saturday. So, I got a small file and ground off the ally either side of the injector. Job done. I don't really want to do this on the new Scorpio so I'll continue to turn the socket down until it fits properly. http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss211/stevework69/DSC00222.jpg |
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Title: Re: 2.5 Diesel no turbo boost P1225 fault code? Post by SteveO on Mar 2nd, 2011, 9:16am Oh dear, I think I've made a mistake..................... When removing the old injector I cut the wire, assuming that I could replace it with the cable from the new one. I wrongly assumed that the electrical connector, 1, was some sort of push-fit type that would be released by pressing the ball bearing inside the hole, 2. It looksl ike that's not the case. Not to worry, I thought, I'll cut the wire on the new scorpio and join it the to one I've removed. Now I've found it's a 2 core cable with identical sleeves, 3, on each wire.... Am I likely to damage anything if they are joined the wrong way round? http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss211/stevework69/Injector.jpg |
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Title: Re: 2.5 Diesel no turbo boost P1225 fault code? Post by Highlander on Mar 2nd, 2011, 9:59am Can the rocker cover not be removed first to allow access to the injector? I didnt do that with mine, i must have had a lucky spanner in the toolbox. |
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Title: Re: 2.5 Diesel no turbo boost P1225 fault code? Post by SteveO on Mar 2nd, 2011, 10:40am I will probably remove the rocker on the new Scorpio but just wanted to get the old one off with minimum fuss. My concern is that if the wired connector wont detatch from the injector body I don't know which way round the wires would reconnect as they are both the same colour. Steve |
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Title: Re: 2.5 Diesel no turbo boost P1225 fault code? Post by Highlander on Mar 2nd, 2011, 11:54am I know it definitely doesnt come off at the injector, I enquired about that when I did it, its a sealed unit. As to the wiring I have no idea if it would make a difference but would guess not if the wires are the same. Is the connector at the other end of the wire set up only to fit one way? |
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Title: Re: 2.5 Diesel no turbo boost P1225 fault code? Post by SteveO on Mar 2nd, 2011, 11:57am Can't get to it easily which is why I cut the old one. I'll trace the end of it later today hopefully and post back. I hope that after all this trouble that it actually is the injector that's causing the power loss........... Thanks for the advice. |
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Title: Re: 2.5 Diesel no turbo boost P1225 fault code? Post by SteveO on Mar 3rd, 2011, 10:34am Does anyone know where the other end of the injector wire goes to? Mine has been clipped onto pipes down the side of the engine block then heads backwards towards the bulkhead. It looks like I'll have to jack the car up to trace it. |
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Title: Re: 2.5 Diesel no turbo boost P1225 fault code? Post by Highlander on Mar 3rd, 2011, 10:54am Section 24 http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/manual/engines/tdi/TDICylHeads.pdf |
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Title: Re: 2.5 Diesel no turbo boost P1225 fault code? Post by SteveO on Mar 3rd, 2011, 12:20pm So, it goes down, under, around and back up over the top. How simple! ??? Thanks Highlander |
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Title: Re: 2.5 Diesel no turbo boost P1225 fault code? Post by Mike H on Mar 3rd, 2011, 8:32pm Problee this (?) http://cid-eb36f845ea9b8fb6.office.live.com/self.aspx/WIRING%20DIAGRAMS/ENGINE%20CONTROL%202.5TDI%20AUTO%20.pdf |
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Title: Re: 2.5 Diesel no turbo boost P1225 fault code? Post by SteveO on Mar 7th, 2011, 6:28pm Hmmm, the connector on the end of the wire seems to be a push fit type, see section 43 of http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/manual/engines/tdi/TDICylHeads.pdf. The wire from the injector goes into the bottom of the plug which is pushed down from above into a bracket. It looks like I have to get under and try to free it from below. This is tricky as the car is parked on a slope at the bottom of the garden and can't be moved. I guess raising a bit at a time on blocks is the only way to go. |
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Title: Re: 2.5 Diesel no turbo boost P1225 fault code? Post by Robin.M on Mar 22nd, 2011, 11:31am Very same problems as Geoff_W, but with the warning temp light showing on the dash. After reading the post, changed the no1 injector with a spare and warning light out and engine running back to normal. Just to be sure changed the original injector back again and old problem reappeared. Spare injector now back in. I had this faulty injector plus the other 3 re-built and re-set by a diesel specialist and was ok to begin with - question is - because of the cost of these injectors anyone know if they can have a new wire fitted to the injector |
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Title: Re: 2.5 Diesel no turbo boost P1225 fault code? Post by Highlander on Mar 22nd, 2011, 11:40am Hi Robin, i managed to get one off a Jeep Cherokee for buttons which probably stopped me trying to take the old one to bits as i am a known dismantler of non working bits ;D I believe the sensor part is a sealed unit, although if it can be put in it can be taken out ;) Can you get into it? |
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Title: Re: 2.5 Diesel no turbo boost P1225 fault code? Post by SteveO on Mar 24th, 2011, 9:14am The connector is a one way fit at the opposite to the sensor so I'd have a 50/50 chance of reconnecting the right way round. I don't know if this would cause damage or just fail to work. Any ideas? As far as dismantling it goes; there are two vertical pins holding the plastic end of the wire in place, I wrongly assumed that the wire could be pulled vertically off toward the top of the injector. I guess that you would have to remove the pins and slide the wire out sideways instead of along the injector. |
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Title: Re: 2.5 Diesel no turbo boost P1225 fault code? Post by Robin.M on Apr 4th, 2011, 1:31pm Just an update on the lack of power problem. Replacing the no1 injector with a spare has restored the engine to full power and limp mode has gone. MPG on urban only has gone from 24.6 to 31.4 - which is an mpg I can live with. I expect to get over 40mpg on a run. Not bad for a 1998, 100,000 miles auto. The fault was with the sensor wire. I have taken the old injector to Bennets Diesel of Watford, who said that if the sensor has gone the injector is scrap as they cannot be repaired. I shall keep my eyes open for the chance to buy any spare ones I might find Next step is to repair one rear wheel arch - slight rust showing |
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