Ford Scorpio Forum - Print Page


    
      
        Ford Scorpio Forum
        (https://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl)
      

        General >> Problems >> 2.9 24v - No idle after battery change
        
(Message started by: Tim_Lusername on Dec 12^th, 2010, 2:31pm)

Title: 2.9 24v - No idle after battery change
Post by Tim_Lusername on Dec 12^th, 2010, 2:31pm

Hi folks

Reporting in with the annual comedy flat battery :-p

The car has been laid up over the last cold spell so of course the battery was pancake.

Have just but it back in the car after recharging and after an initial cough it starts fine. The fly in the ointment is that it won't idle. As soon as you take your foot off the accelerator it dies.

I'm guessing it's an immobiliser / central locking hiccup but I've no idea how to fix it.

Can someone tell me where I need to hit it with the hammer :-)

Thanks

Tim

Title: Re: 2.9 24v - No idle after battery change
Post by Tenfut on Dec 12^th, 2010, 3:31pm

Take it for a 10 mile run and chances are it will sort itself out.
After a battery dis-connect it needs to go through a relearning
phase.Happened on mine more than once.

Tenfut

Title: Re: 2.9 24v - No idle after battery change
Post by Cosray on Dec 12^th, 2010, 3:50pm

Tenfut I agree with you.

The old EEC-V has to become aware again of its sensors and working environment and has to go through a number of running cycles.

Also after a long while of inactivity the infamous Idle Control Valve may need a lube; see various post here.
It is easy to come by on top of the engine.

Moreover a connector cleaning is often helpful.

HTH
Ray

Title: Re: 2.9 24v - No idle after battery change
Post by Tim_Lusername on Dec 12^th, 2010, 4:04pm

Thanks for the feedback guys - it's not a "re-learning" thing. I've had batteries out before and am familiar with the engine management learning curve thing.

The car is undriveable as it is. The engine dies unless you keep the accelerator pressed continuously. Oh BTW I guess one important issue here is that it's an auto box :-p

Cosray, I cleaned the OCV not too long ago so it should be ok-ish.

Title: Re: 2.9 24v - No idle after battery change
Post by Cosray on Dec 12^th, 2010, 4:42pm

Well Tim could you give us some more input to keep us from speculating?

I had similar behaviour once when the triple-coilpack blew one coil, thus inhibiting cyl. 1 and 5. The engine barely ran on 4.

BTW that was caused by a brittle wire in the loom from coilpack to EDIS, grounding the coil for 1 & 5 permanently, which made it blow up. Easy to inspect, smoke, smell, tear in coil. Front of the engine, under the 24v cover.

When you do put your foot down - does our beautiful 24v perform as it should?
Snappy, eager, jumping ahead?
Or is it lumpy, sticky, slow?
All cylinders firing? Missing?
LIke mine, when my acc is halfway down I find myself at 60 mph already..?

Smoke? Smell? Shaking?
Does the autobox change gears at all?
At the right moment?

Or does it respond like an old carburettor car with a lean mixture?

Curious,
Ray

Title: Re: 2.9 24v - No idle after battery change
Post by Highlander on Dec 13^th, 2010, 10:07am

Tim does it stall whether in P or D?

All the 24v's were autos ;)

Cosray is asking if you have cleaned the ICV AFTER the car was laid up, it may be sticking

Definitely not an immobiliser / central locking hiccup or it wouldnt be starting

Title: Re: 2.9 24v - No idle after battery change
Post by Dave2302 on Dec 13^th, 2010, 11:09am

Hi,

It does sound to me like the re - learning cycle, mine used to do it after lay up / flat battery, which happened a lot in it's last year of life. I wasn't using it but kept it to break up for the running gear, for my Rally car project. I used to keep it started once a month. Bloomin' battery was alwas flat :(

Trick is to hold it at around 1000 / 1200 revs on throttle, and then with left foot on brake put it in D.

It is a pain in the @rse, I'm lucky cos we have long quiet roads up here, but mine was always fine after a 15 mile run (complete OBD cycle).

I did fid that holding it on a fast idle fr 10 - 15 mins would make it a bit better / easier to drive.

It will be a sod if you live in a town with loads of traffic, you will need to perfect the left foot braking / touch of throttle driving technique.

Another possibility is jack up the back end and put it on axle stands very securely. Switch off traction control and drive the car gently up and down the gears until it's registered 15 miles on the speedo.

HTH, regards Dave

Title: Re: 2.9 24v - No idle after battery change
Post by Tim_Lusername on Dec 13^th, 2010, 8:21pm

Thanks for the ideas.

I'll try and have a look at it tomorrow. The thing that has me scratching my head is the fact that I've has batteries out of these things 5 or 6 times in the past and never had a re-learning cycle like this. A couple of clunky gear changes perhaps but that was about it. Was I just lucky in the past?

Title: Re: 2.9 24v - No idle after battery change
Post by Cosray on Dec 13^th, 2010, 10:04pm

... ehh a long shot... did you make sure to fasten ALL three black wires on the negative pole? If not the gremlins may wake up.

Moreover, in order to help you with faultfinding, can you be more specific about the engine's bad behaviour?

How long was it not used? Like from hot summer to cold now?

In basic forensic terms - what part/s could have altered its properties during that period - providing no one was stealing parts?

Knowing previous 24v's my first guess would be looms, wiring isolation getting brittle, and coilpack. Also oil and dirt gathering on the engine compartment loom on the chassis beam below the ABS causing eddy currents.

Faulty Fuel Pressure Regulator?

Were the cam chains rattling at cold start previously? Do they now? Suspect.

pls help us diagnose with you. Without exact behavioral symptoms it is hard to do from a distance.

Ray

Title: Re: 2.9 24v - No idle after battery change
Post by Tim_Lusername on Dec 14^th, 2010, 2:54pm

Hi all

Just had a chance to go and play with it - success - I must admit I had a nagging doubt in the back of my mind that I'd somehow missed the little black wire to the battery even though I remembered looking round the battery compartment at the time. Turns out it was the re-learning cycle. I'll describe it as it's a little different to the experiences recounted above so it might be of use to someone in the future.

Bear in mind that I'd previously run the engine for approx two minutes with my foot on the accelerator a couple of days ago which might have helped.

After checking that all the wires were connected to the battery I started the engine and ran it for a couple of mins, ran the auto box through the gears a couple of times and took my foot off the gas. The engine died but not instantly as before, so I repeated the idle/gears thing again. Gradually eased off the gas and the idle held good. A little shaky but I gave it some gentle gas for another minute took my foot off and it held a steady idle.

So a very similar story to the advice you posted above but a lot less hassle to "fix". I don't fancy my left foot braking skills too much :-)

Cossray, just for the record the car was idle for 3 days IIRC in the last spell of cold weather.

Anyway thanks for the advice guys - without that I think I'd be outside crying over an engine bay right now!

Title: Re: 2.9 24v - No idle after battery change
Post by admin on Dec 14^th, 2010, 3:24pm

I knew we had a page on the site all about this :)

http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/drivecycle.htm

This explains how the EEC-V needs to relearn the sensor values after a battery change. Simply swapping a battery over doesn't mean it loses it's memory, but after several days of a dead battery it will revert to factory defaults and the above relearning drive cycle is required in order for it to start working correctly

Glad it all worked out for you and thanks for updating the thread.

Steve

Title: Re: 2.9 24v - No idle after battery change
Post by Tim_Lusername on Dec 14^th, 2010, 4:44pm

Thank you for the link.

Title: Re: 2.9 24v - No idle after battery change
Post by Dave2302 on Dec 14^th, 2010, 6:22pm

Glad you got it sorted, I've just been reading Ford TSB, apparantly all EECV equipped cars need to re learn their idle settings, after a 20 minute or more disconnection / flat battery.

Fords procedure is similair to what you said...........

Once you do get it to idle roughly by gently and gradually coming off throttle they say to leave it idling with AC on and in D.

After 5 mins or so, switch off AC and go for a drive of at least 5km

;)

Cheers Dave

Title: Re: 2.9 24v - No idle after battery change
Post by Tim_Lusername on Dec 14^th, 2010, 7:00pm

Hi Dave

The thing that really threw me is that I've had batteries out for days at a time before now and they've always restarted almost without a hiccup. First time I've ever had to deal with this malarkey.

Title: Re: 2.9 24v - No idle after battery change
Post by Baz on Dec 14^th, 2010, 10:54pm

on 12/14/10 at 19:00:33, Tim_Lusername wrote:

All part of the joys of Scorpio ownership!! ;D

Title: Re: 2.9 24v - No idle after battery change
Post by Dave2302 on Dec 15^th, 2010, 10:48am

Yeah, agree with Baz and yourself, mine wouldn't mess up the idle all the time, but it did more often than not ;)

Cheers Dave