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        General >> Problems >> valve timing? 2-3 16v
        
(Message started by: ro284 on Jan 16^th, 2011, 3:25pm)

Title: valve timing? 2-3 16v
Post by ro284 on Jan 16^th, 2011, 3:25pm

Having a serious senior moment now!i set the timing marks on the two spockets as described under pdf.(item no 60) for 2-316v i did this to take the head off, unfortunately the chain slid round the crank sprocket! so i lost all my marks,. so started to put it back again, and eventually got the layout exactl after turning one revolution as item no 60, with piston no 1 at tdc. (no mark on damper) however i read above that i should do this with no 2 piston at tdc and the marks line up in the middle as in 58! but they only line up this way with no 2 at BDC! so it appears that i have timed this to piston no 1! I Have already fitted a head gasket 3 years ago i'm sure i did it in the same way! Before i go any further does it matter which piston the valve timg is timed to? any advice please, thanks Bob just to add i set it to the diagram item no 48 before stipping it down,

Title: Re: valve timing? 2-3 16v
Post by ro284 on Jan 17^th, 2011, 1:13pm

Please can someone advise, on this, :-[ i know it should be pretty basic! what foxed me is that the pdf reads as follows 58. Set the crankshaft to the TDC position of cylinder no. 2. then 59. Check the valve timing. The markings on the camshaft sprockets must be opposite one another on the level of the top edge of the cylinder head. but in practice it is not possible to have no 2 at TDC! i can only make it work at BDC!
60. Check the valve timing (continued).
Turn the crankshaft a further revolution (impliying full rotation) in the normal running direction and set it to the
mark. (presumably on NO1 at TDC) As that is the only position that it seems possible to get the marks set! that is how mine is now, after turning round sprockets many times, to see if setting at no 2 to start with is possible, i am not saying the instructions are wrong i just can't follow it! :-[ ( whatever way i got to this, is the setting finally correct at pic 60? Any advice please? thanks Bob

Title: Re: valve timing? 2-3 16v
Post by Tompion on Jan 17^th, 2011, 3:16pm

Bob,

I can’t really comment not having worked on a 2.3 head, however it does seem at odds with what it says back at 48 where you remove the parts.
Looking at the 2.0l manual it doesn’t appear to say the same, but I don't know how relevant that is:
http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/manual/engines/dohc16v/DOHC16VCHead.pdf

Can’t you tell from the valve positions – both shut at alternate TDC – obviously not precise but you are talking of a significant amount not just a tooth.

Dave

Title: Re: valve timing? 2-3 16v
Post by ro284 on Jan 17^th, 2011, 4:13pm

First thanks for your time Dave, as i understand it the 2-0 is the same layout, i-e pistons 1 and 4 are at TDC at the same time,2&3 are at BDC. and that is the answer, where it says piston no2, it is in fact piston no 4, when i turn the crank one revolution and piston 4 is at TDC as is piston 1 thats when the timing marks line up!for the additional check! i had checked the cam positions and all seemed to be where they should, but it was the paragragh in the link you kindly posted i=e 48. Additional check.
Turn the engine in the normal direction of
rotation to the next TDC position. it does not say piston two (as in 2-3 pdf,) but the next TDC which is no 4! My heads been spinning with this! So many thanks Dave all is as it should be, wheres the thumbs up smiley? all the best Bob

Title: Re: valve timing? 2-3 16v
Post by martin_rowe on Jan 17^th, 2011, 4:14pm

my data shows timed with No1 at TDC.

Title: Re: valve timing? 2-3 16v
Post by 5stud on Jan 17^th, 2011, 6:33pm

if you are confused beg borow or buy galaxy hanes manual if you nead on give us a pm

Title: Re: valve timing? 2-3 16v
Post by ro284 on Jan 17^th, 2011, 8:13pm

Many thanks guys! this really is a simple job i have done this before, what threw me was the instruction pdf for the 2-3 stating to do an additional check of the timing by using TDC on no 2 piston, this should read No 4 piston. the pdf for the 2-0 explains this better, unfortunately once the doubt was raised i lost confidence in what i was doing, two days wasted! its not as though the timing includes oil pump or dist drives.
anyway safe to release tensioner now,
Have made contribution with thanks Bob,

Title: Re: valve timing? 2-3 16v
Post by gozz on Jan 17^th, 2011, 11:13pm

Bob.
The cams are timed on No1 TDC,the single copper coloured link is over the dot on the bottom of the crankshaft sprocket,the other two are over the dots on the cam sprockets,those dots do NOT lie exactly level with the top of the head.Presumably you haven't removed the oil pump/balance shaft chain,therefore you will not need to retime the shafts.
The above method is really the only sure way of getting it right,if you miss time it by one tooth,thus putting each cam out by half a tooth,the engine will not run smoothly,and will cut out under light load.
GOZZ.

Title: Re: valve timing? 2-3 16v
Post by ro284 on Jan 18^th, 2011, 10:24am

Thanks GOZZ, The trouble is i have never seen any copper links at all, the last time i did it, there was no sign either! i have not taken the timing front off, so never touched the balance chain, i have also timed it on no1 front piston, however in the pdf, it says an additional check to this to confirm the correct position, is to turn the engine round clockwise, to the next TDC, Which only seems possible on no 4 piston, at which point the alignment marks on sprockets should line up on the inside (therefore pointing at each other) along the top edge of the block, which they do, i will check it yet again but i am hoping to finnish it today! any advice gratefully recieved,
Thanks Bob

Title: Re: valve timing? 2-3 16v
Post by ro284 on Jan 18^th, 2011, 2:27pm

Well i changed my mind, about doing this today, in the hope i may get more advice, as there are no copper links! i'm pretty sure it's spot on, but fortunately i have a 2-9 to use anyway, so as there is no rush, i'm open to any more suggestions thoughts or advice, on making sure, thanks guys.
Bob

Title: Re: valve timing? 2-3 16v
Post by gozz on Jan 18^th, 2011, 9:56pm

Bob.
Someone may have fitted the timing chain back to front,the camwheel timing links are not equidistant from the crank link,for this reason they are only marked on the front as it would be impossible to marry up the links to the dots if the markings were on the inside.
The numbering of the links are as follows :- the crank link has a single marked plate,the sprocket tooth fits through that plate,the cam links have two marked plates each,the cam sprocket teeth fit BETWEEN those two plates.
Crank tooth plate to inlet cam first plate (not counting the marked plates) is 28 plates,crank to exhaust cam,now counting anticlockwise is 21 plates,again not counting the marked plates.
By 'plates' I refer of course to the outer part of the links.I would not attempt to time one of these engines once the chain had left the crank sprocket without removing the cover to,in your case,at least count the links.
GOZZ.

Title: Re: valve timing? 2-3 16v
Post by ro284 on Jan 19^th, 2011, 10:11am

Thankyou very much for your time GOZZ, it's very much appreciated, i don't know how you managed to get all that info! i understand what you are saying, thanks, but there are no copper links on the chain either side at all! in the pdf there is no mention of the copper links on the 2-0 yet it does explain how to time the valves without them, I think! The 2-0 and the 2-3 are basically the same engine, it would be great if there were copper links, as it is I can see no alterative (as the chain slipped round) to taking off the front to get at the crank sprocket and count the links as you describe, one thing that may help it that I have found a timing mark on the crank damper, (but not in the form of a V!) more a dot on the front, it appears not many guys have not had this problem of timing valves, thanks again Bob

Title: Re: valve timing? 2-3 16v
Post by ro284 on Jan 19^th, 2011, 1:20pm

Back again, it would seem not to make sense to have to take the timing chain out just to re-time the valves! surely it should be possible without doing so! there appears to be no wear in the chain, i imagine the most important thing is to establish the mark for TDC on the crank!

Title: Re: valve timing? 2-3 16v
Post by gozz on Jan 19^th, 2011, 10:22pm

Bob.
You can determine TDC by putting a rod through the spark plug hole and turning the crank until the rod reaches it's uppermost point.
GOZZ.

Title: Re: valve timing? 2-3 16v
Post by ro284 on Jan 19^th, 2011, 10:45pm

Thanks GOZZ, Have been doing that for TDC, but a bit surprised there is not a more definite mark though. would you know (if it's not too much trouble) the measurement or how many chain link plates there is between both cams marks, 17 whole links i think! this is between the centres of the double copper links. that would help confirm i have at least got the sprockets right! thanks

Title: Re: valve timing? 2-3 16v
Post by gozz on Jan 20^th, 2011, 7:31pm

Bob.
If you count the inlet tooth as number one,the exhaust tooth is number thirty five,in other words there are 35 'tooth holes' between them including the two holes in which the marked teeth lie.
GOZZ.

Title: Re: valve timing? 2-3 16v
Post by ro284 on Jan 20^th, 2011, 8:41pm

Excellent 35 is what i got too, think i'm getting there, thanks for all your help, Gozz