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        General >> Problems >> Help. Sounds like a bag of bolts!!!!
        
(Message started by: lleewar on Feb 26^th, 2011, 8:23pm)

Title: Help. Sounds like a bag of bolts!!!!
Post by lleewar on Feb 26^th, 2011, 8:23pm

Hi All. As you may or may not know, my scorpio, 2.0l 16v Ultima Auto, has been off the road since the middle of December thanks to the dreaded black ice. Thanks to rodders, I have put all the parts on but the problem was starting the car.

Once the fuel had reached the engine, she fired up, but is running like a bag of nuts and bolts. She is hunting like a pig most of the time, finding it,s way now and again,stalling, but it's not right.

I have noticed an exhaust leak, noticeable, at the manifold end and wondered if this was part of the running problem. Something else I noticed was that once the engine was turned off, one fan comes on and then the other a short while after!!!!! What the **** Help. It's my only car and not being able to go out is straining my relationship with the other half. Your solutions would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance. Lee

Title: Re: Help. Sounds like a bag of bolts!!!!
Post by Scorpio_Mike on Feb 26^th, 2011, 9:52pm

Clean the MAF ???
Wiring loom ???

Title: Re: Help. Sounds like a bag of bolts!!!!
Post by Stixy on Feb 26^th, 2011, 10:14pm

Sounds like a broken cat and wiring loom and maf

Make sure the top loom is dry

Title: Re: Help. Sounds like a bag of bolts!!!!
Post by lleewar on Feb 27^th, 2011, 2:44am

Thanks guys. Have cleaned the maf already. Top loom seems dry. Will investigate the exhaust leak today if weather is dry. Will also check fuse boxes for dampness as Rodders suggests. Lee

Title: Re: Help. Sounds like a bag of bolts!!!!
Post by lleewar on Feb 27^th, 2011, 3:00am

Is there anything else I should consider looking for!!!!!

Title: Re: Help. Sounds like a bag of bolts!!!!
Post by Snoopy on Feb 27^th, 2011, 7:59am

Coil Packs can give faulty running. That is where I would be looking at.

Title: Re: Help. Sounds like a bag of bolts!!!!
Post by Mike H on Feb 27^th, 2011, 11:45am

Presume it worked OK before being laid up, so suspect most likely damp / corrosion in the electrics (?) Maybe a good soaking of WD40 might improve things.

Title: Re: Help. Sounds like a bag of bolts!!!!
Post by Geoff_W on Mar 1^st, 2011, 12:17am

I would agree with Snoopy, having had a coil pack progressively fail on my 2 litre the symptoms were very similar and the noise was appalling and the misfire and rough running was very similar to Lee's description.

Lee how do your spark plug tips look?

Title: Re: Help. Sounds like a bag of bolts!!!!
Post by lleewar on Mar 1^st, 2011, 6:15pm

Hi Geoff, Just removed spark plugs. All were quite sooted up and except for the back one, all were well oiled as well. Cleaned and put back. Will start car as soon as battery has charged!!! Lee

Title: Re: Help. Sounds like a bag of bolts!!!!
Post by lleewar on Mar 2^nd, 2011, 5:32pm

Started car today after some wiring repairs and the car does not want to run properly :'(.
It is hunting a lot, then evens out, then hunt's again even to the point of stalling, then it's difficult to start.
When the car is turned off, the fans keep going high then low and won't turn off ???
When the car actually stays on a even turn over, there is no or little power when you put your foot down and I mean foot to the floor and the car goes nowhere :'(
What I've done.. Cleaned MAF, cleaned TPS, removed and cleaned plugs(quite dirty) swapped coil packs (lent to me by my local garage) checked all connections.
I am getting to the desperate stage. If only there were members closer that could give a hand. I don't know what to look at next. Any suggestions Dejected Lee

Title: Re: Help. Sounds like a bag of bolts!!!!
Post by lleewar on Mar 2^nd, 2011, 5:32pm

Oh and O/D light has started flashing :(

Title: Re: Help. Sounds like a bag of bolts!!!!
Post by Mike H on Mar 2^nd, 2011, 6:52pm

New parts was a loom? Re topic "loom wiring differences" Anything else?

If O/D is showing up it's deffo not happy, an OBD read might indicate what's not working, which will give you better clues to go by (?)

I'm also concerned by "oily plugs" [!]

Title: Re: Help. Sounds like a bag of bolts!!!!
Post by lleewar on Mar 2^nd, 2011, 8:55pm

Hi Mike, My loom was completely broken, broken insulation everywhere so replaced with a 2.3 loom after doing the neccessary adjustments with the extra earth wire for the temperature sender, but the running is still no better. :'(
The oily plugs I think is due to the rocker cover gasket slighly seaping. Lee

Title: Re: Help. Sounds like a bag of bolts!!!!
Post by lleewar on Mar 2^nd, 2011, 8:57pm

Sorry, no other parts replaced, just cleaned. Wierd thing is that until my untimely crash, she was running fine!!!

Title: Re: Help. Sounds like a bag of bolts!!!!
Post by lleewar on Mar 2^nd, 2011, 11:19pm

Sorry. Air by pass valve cleaned, not TPS. ::)

Title: Re: Help. Sounds like a bag of bolts!!!!
Post by Highlander on Mar 3^rd, 2011, 10:44am

When you crashed was in damaged front offside?

I seem to remember Scorpioman having running problems after his Front OS bump that turned out to be EDIS unit or EDIS unit loom damage caused during the crash.

EDIS unit is behind the OS headlight in front of the coolant reservoir, screwed onto the inner wing.
If you bend the neck of the washer bottle out of the way you should see it.

The big green engine fan relay/wiring is down in that area too.

Title: Re: Help. Sounds like a bag of bolts!!!!
Post by lleewar on Mar 3^rd, 2011, 10:51am

Stuart, It was more or less head-on into a barrier. It went far enough to shatter the bumper into little pieces, both headlights, grill, bonnet bent over at the front and creased both front wings, hence no insurance claim. Where can I find the unit and check the wiring please. Thanks Lee

Title: Re: Help. Sounds like a bag of bolts!!!!
Post by Highlander on Mar 3^rd, 2011, 11:06am

read my last post ;)

if the is wiring damage and you wiggle the wires when the car is running you may find it stalls or changes the engine running

Looks like this

http://i54.tinypic.com/25gqrro.jpg

Title: Re: Help. Sounds like a bag of bolts!!!!
Post by lleewar on Mar 3^rd, 2011, 11:11am

Thanks Stuart. Reading last post now with glasses on :-[. Will check as suggested tomorrow as I have a job interview today and do not want to go there with grease monkey hands. Lee

Title: Re: Help. Sounds like a bag of bolts!!!!
Post by Mike H on Mar 3^rd, 2011, 8:08pm

It's all starting to come out now! http://livinginthepast-audioweb.co.uk/images/misc/foreheadslap.gif

Worked OK before bump, won't after. Splash....

Often thought that was a d*mn stupid place to put the EDIS module

Reckon you problee gotta have the whole lot out and give it a good check over

Title: Re: Help. Sounds like a bag of bolts!!!!
Post by lleewar on Mar 4^th, 2011, 12:44pm

Hi Stuart, Did what you said. Started car, running very roughly, got it to temperature and wiggled wiring. No change whatsoever :(. Checked said wiring, no damage.
Have noticed exhaust fumes are very black at the rear box, have an exhaust leak at the manifold/ cat end, quite noticeable. Car stalls on it's own accord. Fans seem to be permanently on :(. Lee

Title: Re: Help. Sounds like a bag of bolts!!!!
Post by Mike H on Mar 4^th, 2011, 4:35pm

on 03/02/11 at 20:55:49, lleewar wrote:

The oily plugs I think is due to the rocker cover gasket slighly seaping. Lee

You mean oily on the outside?

There's more going on here than meets the eye. Sounds like it's very rich. Air filter blocked? Very dirty? When you had your crunch what did this do to the air filter box and intake pipe, if anything? Any bits of broken grill or bumper stuck up the intake pipe? Bizarre as that may sound. Or was it squashed?

Don't think the exhaust leak will make a huge difference to how the engine basically runs, the thing is get the engine working properly first

Title: Re: Help. Sounds like a bag of bolts!!!!
Post by lleewar on Mar 4^th, 2011, 7:31pm

Oh if only Mike.
1. plugs oily on the outside only. Slightly leaking rocker cover gasket.
2. Plugs cleaned yesterday,quite black. After running today, took out, black again.
3. Air filter new and clean.
4. No blockage up the intake pipe.
5. Exhaust -VERY black smoke
6. Coil packs working. Tested them.
7. NEW ONE. Took key out of ignition-- Dash lights stayed on ???
8. Runs extremely rough, stalls after a while
9. Getting VERY dejected about the car, near to giving up.HEEEEEELLLLLLPPPPPPPP Lee

Title: Re: Help. Sounds like a bag of bolts!!!!
Post by lleewar on Mar 4^th, 2011, 10:08pm

10. fans now behaving themselves.

Title: Re: Help. Sounds like a bag of bolts!!!!
Post by lleewar on Mar 4^th, 2011, 10:11pm

Mike, your right. It does sound like it's running rich. The fuel gauge seems to have dropped incredibly quickly. Where is the air shortage not coming from???? Is there a valve or sensor that is not working???

Title: Re: Help. Sounds like a bag of bolts!!!!
Post by lleewar on Mar 4^th, 2011, 10:14pm

It wouldn't be so bad if I had someone looking at it with me, you could feed off of one and other, but new area and no friends to speak of. Sorry. feeling very dejected at the mo.......

Title: Re: Help. Sounds like a bag of bolts!!!!
Post by Mike H on Mar 5^th, 2011, 1:55pm

Dash lights staying on is deffo not right, so there's electrical issues here. I presume it turned the actual ignition off?

Just had a thought, what if the throttle position sensor was damaged in the prang. On the 2.0L 16V it's up the front quite close to the front of the bonnet, actually the cable bends around just behind the upper front member.

Suppose the PCM thinks it's stuck in the fully open position, that could explain it chucking great gobs of petrol in. I'm just guessing, can anyone corroborate that might be possible? Can't remember if the PCM tests the TPS first and what it does about it if the test comes back as "NOP"

Could really do with an OBD read as well, problee stacks of error codes

Title: Re: Help. Sounds like a bag of bolts!!!!
Post by Mike H on Mar 5^th, 2011, 1:59pm

PS: stacks of black smoke is not good for the exhaust system either, tends to clag it up

Title: Re: Help. Sounds like a bag of bolts!!!!
Post by lleewar on Mar 5^th, 2011, 8:06pm

Hi Mike, Thanks for the ongoing solutions.
1. Battery, oil and flashing airbag light( Clockspring) stays on on the dashboard when key is removed.
2. Checked fuses boxes as suggested by Rodders. Found two gone F18 & F19 Dim/ Dipped light rhd & headlamp Washer( which I don't have)???
3. Started car today and seemed to run ok but got my hopes up too soon. Got to temp but engine was racing/idling far too high so gears were engaging with an incredible thump.
4. When trying to start car, PATS light was going frantic and would not start until after a few tries even stalling then not wanting to start.
5. Fitted new water pump. :)
6. Are the fuse boxes suspect??? Damp still even after hairdryer treatment??
7. Rodders has sent me a nearly new loom and will fit tomorrow to see if it makes a difference.

Any other suggestions?? It has to be electrical and it's one thing I'm useless at. Lee
5.

Title: Re: Help. Sounds like a bag of bolts!!!!
Post by Mike H on Mar 5^th, 2011, 8:24pm

Going by other topics on here, No. 3 does suggest bad throttle position sensor type behaviour. Causes weird things like racing, stopping, IIRC.

Presume charging light etc. is off ignition switch position II so suggests it's not actually being turned off when it's supposed to be. (?)

Not seen one in detail but apparently fuse boxes have multi-layer circuit boards underneath where the tracks can get corroded and so on; does sound like water or something shorting things together. Could be needs a closer look. The blowing fuses suggest a shorting problem somewhere.

Title: Re: Help. Sounds like a bag of bolts!!!!
Post by lleewar on Mar 5^th, 2011, 8:35pm

Mike, When ignition is on, all lights( except flashing airbag) go out. Will check TPS, don't know how!!
The fuses could have been blown for a long time, not sure. Just want to get the car going again... Lee

Title: Re: Help. Sounds like a bag of bolts!!!!
Post by lleewar on Mar 5^th, 2011, 8:36pm

Could do with a scan but no-one local to me :-[

Title: Re: Help. Sounds like a bag of bolts!!!!
Post by lleewar on Mar 6^th, 2011, 10:39am

Is, with what's going on with my car, the loom still suspect or should I be looking at something else ??? Would it cause the ignition lights to stay on after the key is removed?? Will investigate the TPS as Mike suggests. Lee

Title: Re: Help. Sounds like a bag of bolts!!!!
Post by Tompion on Mar 6^th, 2011, 11:45am

You may well have loom damage but I don’t think the ignition off problems will be down to the Fuel Cut-off Loom.
The loom in front of the rad is a known problem area, but whether it would cause the ignition off problems I don’t know.

Title: Re: Help. Sounds like a bag of bolts!!!!
Post by Highlander on Mar 6^th, 2011, 10:34pm

Have you had a look in the bottom section of the battery side fusebox?

Not the part where the fuses are, the bottom of the fusebox which can be removed.

I'd bet thats full of water and giving you some of the problems you mention

Title: Re: Help. Sounds like a bag of bolts!!!!
Post by Mike H on Mar 7^th, 2011, 2:57pm

on 03/05/11 at 20:35:15, lleewar wrote:

Mike, When ignition is on, all lights( except flashing airbag) go out.

Yes I know that's correct (apart from the air bag one) but you said battery and oil light (?) stay on when turned off and key removed

Quote:

Will check TPS, don't know how!!

Some info here - note could be tested with a multimeter:
http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/tpsdata.htm

But I think like Highlander says get the electrical gremlins sorted out first