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        General >> Problems >> Smoke from under bonnet - smells hot
        
(Message started by: TomP on Aug 8^th, 2011, 11:02am)

Title: Smoke from under bonnet - smells hot
Post by TomP on Aug 8^th, 2011, 11:02am

Scorpio 2.9 12v 1996 Estate, 105k miles.

My scorpio has started to smoke a little from under the bonnet. Only notice it when the car is sitting idle. When I lift the bonnet I can see a little smoke coming up, from the drivers side of the engine and a little oil around the middle spark plug. There is also some patches of oil on the plastic engine cover tray. Pretty sure the smoke is oil burning and it smells hot.

I'm sure it must be difficult to diagnose from my description but has anyone got any clues for me?

Title: Re: Smoke from under bonnet - smells hot
Post by Simmo on Aug 8^th, 2011, 3:23pm

Is the spark plug loose??.

Title: Re: Smoke from under bonnet - smells hot
Post by TomP on Aug 8^th, 2011, 3:30pm

Thanks for the thought. I don't think so, although I did put in new plugs a couple of months ago, so will check when I get home tonight. Presumably I would see oil coming out of the plug, wouldn't I?....but I don't think I can see anything obvious.

Title: Re: Smoke from under bonnet - smells hot
Post by Andycan on Aug 8^th, 2011, 4:08pm

I don't know much about the 2.9 but it would seem that maybe a gasket is leaking somewhere.

Title: Re: Smoke from under bonnet - smells hot
Post by Highlander on Aug 8^th, 2011, 4:29pm

2.9 rocker cover gaskets are good at that ;D

Title: Re: Smoke from under bonnet - smells hot
Post by TomP on Aug 8^th, 2011, 4:49pm

Thanks guys, gasket seems a good bet as I could see some oil around the top of the engine.

Sorry to appear so foolish, but what's the difference between the head gasket and the rocker gasket? Are there any pictures or instructions on how to change these? Is it something a DIYer could have a go at?

Title: Re: Smoke from under bonnet - smells hot
Post by Highlander on Aug 8^th, 2011, 4:58pm

The rocker gaskets are fitted on top of the cylinder heads, easy to change, just a few bolts (and most likely the culprit)

cylinder head gaskets are fitted below the cylinder heads, between the heads and the engine block, more complicated but not too difficult on a 12v.

The link below shows the 12v engine dismantle and rebuild, to change the rocker cover gaskets you just need to look at section 14

Section 79 shows the head gasket location on top of the cylinder block, the cylinder heads with the valves etc are then fitted on top of the head gasket

Then in section 90 the heads have been now been refitted and the rocker gaskets are fitted on top of them with the covers holding them in place.

http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/manual/engines/12v/V612VDismantle.pdf

Title: Re: Smoke from under bonnet - smells hot
Post by TomP on Aug 9^th, 2011, 9:26am

Thank you that is really helpful.

I looked at the car last night and it does look like the oil may be coming from the Rocker cover so will changing that first.

A few more questions please:

1) Should I get the gaskets from Ford or ok to get from a general motor spares shop?
2) Do I need to put any sealant or anything else on the gaskets?
3) Do I need to torque the 8 bolts on each side or should I just put that back about the same tightness as they are on currently?

Title: Re: Smoke from under bonnet - smells hot
Post by Highlander on Aug 9^th, 2011, 9:57am

1) Don't think it'll matter, they should be cheap and good quality from either.

2) It says the following on the link :

NOTE: Stick the gaskets in place with the
adhesive-coated side facing the cylinder head
cover.
90.Coat the contact faces of the cylinder
head cover flange with sealer
(SPM-2G-3121-A).

My usual technique is just to give new gaskets a light smear of fresh engine oil but these sound like they can come with a sticky side anyway (i've never done 12v rocker gaskets)

3) never used a torque wrench in my life, I'm of the "tighten it as far as you can then give it another turn school" ;)

however these particular bolts shouldnt be overtightened or the gasket and/or cover may get damaged.

Here is the correct torque figure for the cover bolts.

Torques

Cylinder head cover 7 Nm or 5 lbf.ft

Title: Re: Smoke from under bonnet - smells hot
Post by Mike H on Aug 9^th, 2011, 12:41pm

So the smoke is then oil runnig down and burning on the exhaust manifold (?)

Title: Re: Smoke from under bonnet - smells hot
Post by TomP on Aug 9^th, 2011, 1:11pm

Yes, I presume that is what's happening. I will check under the car at the weekend to see if I can see oil on the manifold.

If there is no oil on the manifold, maybe the smoke is coming from something else, but it seems to be oil from burning oil, from the smell.

Title: Re: Smoke from under bonnet - smells hot
Post by lesterlad aka Rodders on Aug 9^th, 2011, 1:59pm

on 08/09/11 at 09:57:55, Highlander wrote:

3) never used a torque wrench in my life, I'm of the "tighten it as far as you can then give it another turn school" ;)

I'm from the same type of school, which some say was an approved one.

My terminology is, 'keep turning the spanner until it's F T' ;D

Title: Re: Smoke from under bonnet - smells hot
Post by TomP on Aug 12^th, 2011, 3:02pm

Have phoned local Ford dealer. They asked if my car has a Lambda sensor. How do I know/find out? Would have thought the could have told me from my Reg No, but apparently not.

Prices quoted were:

No Lambda - £6.50 + VAT each (part no. 1651474)
With Lambda - £15.86 + VAT each (part no. 6906225)

Title: Re: Smoke from under bonnet - smells hot
Post by gozz on Aug 18^th, 2011, 10:16am

1651474 is the one I always used,such a common problem I bought a box full from Ford.That gasket fitted the 2.8 injection engine as well when fitted in the Mk3 Granada,but not the earlier Granadas.As Highlander states there is a peel off tape to reveal a sticky side,which sticks onto the cover.I have never fitted the expensive one (6906225) which is a scandalous price,nor have I ever seen one.
GOZZ.

Title: Re: Smoke from under bonnet - smells hot
Post by TomP on Sep 5^th, 2011, 4:22pm

Finally got to look at the car over the weekend. Tried to clean up the engine as much as poss first.

Noticed a small amount of oil bubbling round a couple of the rocker cover nuts (drivers side only) so tightened those up, but didn't cure the smoke.

Was thinking about trying to remove the heatshield on the drivers side manifold, but the 3 nuts seemed very tight and didn't want to budge. Are these removavble? I hope then that I can see a bit better because fairly sure the oild leak must be under the manifold somewhere.

Title: Re: Smoke from under bonnet - smells hot
Post by Snoopy on Sep 6^th, 2011, 7:19am

If the oil has been leaking from the rocker cover gasket then there will be an amount of burnt/unburnt oil on the manifolds where it has run down , get a small wire brush and clean that off and the burning smell should eventually disappear.
I had to replace the rocker cover gaskets on my 12v as they were leaking ever so slightly and it took ages for the small amount of spilt oil to burn off.

The Ford/pattern ones usually come with a small metal insert where the bolts go through. DO NOT over tighten them as you can squash that small spacer quite easily. It really is quite an easy DIY job the drivers side where the pipes run along the side of the cover is from memory the awkward one.