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        General >> Problems >> Overheating
        
(Message started by: Andycan on Sep 12^th, 2011, 4:29pm)

Title: Overheating
Post by Andycan on Sep 12^th, 2011, 4:29pm

Yesterday I drove 7 miles and my 2.0 scorpio started hissing water out of the header tank yet the gauge was on normal temp. I filled it up when today and drove a couple of miles only to find after 100 yards the gauge was upto normal and at the end of the journey the temp was just under the red yet the rad fans didn't come on and the header tank wasn't hissing.

It could be a airlock where I filled it up but don't know where the bleed points are. Then we have the gauge and rad fans playing up.

Title: Re: Overheating
Post by Simmo on Sep 12^th, 2011, 5:19pm

The first thing to do is try the 'Jonnycab' method if you think an air lock is the problem.Details Here (http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=admin;action=display;num=1267895712)
Don't forget there are two temperature sensors. One for the gauge and another for the engine management system.

Title: Re: Overheating
Post by PJDavis on Sep 12^th, 2011, 5:21pm

Aye. I concur with Simmo. I changed my thermostat last year and it took ages to get rid of all the air from the system, just when I thought I'd got rid of it all, another load of bubbles appeared. ;)

Title: Re: Overheating
Post by Simmo on Sep 12^th, 2011, 5:26pm

If you think the 'stat' is faulty I'd get a Ford one. I obtained a pattern part but it did not fit and just delayed a simple job.

Title: Re: Overheating
Post by Andycan on Sep 12^th, 2011, 7:24pm

Thanks guys I forgot to mention my abs light has come on as well at the same time but it is too windy to check anything at the moment.

My thoughts are with our members in Scotland with these high winds and I hope we all come out of it unscathed.

Title: Re: Overheating
Post by Andycan on Sep 14^th, 2011, 3:14pm

Further update. On further inspection the headgasket has gone. It ticks over and runs ok but the temp goes through the roof after 1/2 mile at 30 mph.

Title: Re: Overheating
Post by lleewar on Sep 14^th, 2011, 6:47pm

Oh I know how you feel :)

Title: Re: Overheating
Post by Mike H on Sep 14^th, 2011, 8:32pm

Bummer. :(

Title: Re: Overheating
Post by Andycan on Sep 17^th, 2011, 12:05pm

Hi again I have a update on the update which is confusing me.

I decided to check it out again and found strange things happening. Before starting the water hoses feel as if they are full of air. After starting up it slowly warms up on tickover. The rad fans come on slow setting just before the temp gauge gets to normal the rad is warm and the water hoses are hot and hard. When the temp gauge gets to normal there is a smell of burning and then the rad fans go into overdrive and the rad goes very cold as if the aircon is cooling it. The rad fans stay on max speed and the rad stays cold until the gauge shows just under the red line which is when I turn the engine off. On tickover this process takes about 20 minutes.

I can't understand how the rad goes cold when the engine and water hoses are hot or why the rad gets warm and then goes stone cold. Could it be all the temp sensors have started recording the wrong temps? If so it doesn't explain the cold rad.
???

Title: Re: Overheating
Post by Matt on Sep 17^th, 2011, 12:43pm

Your thermo stat may be stuck shut

Title: Re: Overheating
Post by Tompion on Sep 17^th, 2011, 1:05pm

Various thing could be going on, if the gasket has gone it could be pressurising the system. However if you don’t know for certain it has gone note the following.
The temp gauge uses a different sensor to the ECT (which controls the fans).
If there’s a wiring problem that effectively disconnects the ECT the fans come on full.
If the thermostat sticks it may overheat (especially if the matrix is blocked/partially blocked as the coolant only flows through the matrix when the stat is closed).
If you’ve only been refilling with water instead of 50/50 water/antifreeze the boiling point will be lower so a greater risk of steam pockets.

You could try leaving the stat out temporarily if you haven’t changed it yet.

Title: Re: Overheating
Post by Andycan on Sep 17^th, 2011, 8:29pm

If the stat was stuck shut would the rad get hot until the fans come on? When the fans come on they come on slow at 1st and then after a few minutes they turn up to full blast.

The bolts on the stat housing are very rusty and I think they will break and I have been told if they do then it means I will need a new head.

The coolant is probably mainly water now as I didn't want to put antifreeze in till I was sure of the problem as it costs so much here and I spent £60 on antifreeze on my espace when it got a airlock that the garage couldn't get rid of so I did it myself and it took around a month.

Title: Re: Overheating
Post by Tompion on Sep 18^th, 2011, 12:17pm

Probably better to say the stat may be sticking rather than stuck.
You may have a blockage somewhere or possibly a faulty pump.
What happens if you run it from cold with the reservoir cap off?

Check the air vent hose to the reservoir. There’s quite a small hole in the reservoir I’ve found mine blocked a couple of times with bits from the matrix.

Try carefully tightening the stat bolts a little first, it sometimes gets them moving.

Title: Re: Overheating
Post by Mike H on Sep 18^th, 2011, 1:27pm

Soak with penetrating fluid first and leave several hours, e.g. overnight.

See also How To Do Things about getting rid of an air lock.

Hoses soft, as if empty, then hard, when water is in them (presume that is the reason), suggests to me a lot of air may be in the system, and the water is not circulating properly, hence strange behaviour of fans (engine block getting hot because no water in it) and radiator (warm when water in it, cold when there isn't). I am just guessing.

Title: Re: Overheating
Post by Mike H on Sep 18^th, 2011, 1:33pm

If it helps, last time I changed my coolant, could not be bothered finding drain plugs so instead took big hose off reservoir that goes down to bottom of engine, put a long plastic tube in it all the way down to the bottom and siphoned it out. Hose back on and refilled as normal, no problems.

Title: Re: Overheating
Post by Mike H on Sep 18^th, 2011, 1:37pm

Appendix ~ the excess air may still be head gasket leak, but to be sure, need to be sure cooling system is properly filled up.

Or, if use method in How To Do Things all air should ultimately be expelled, but if keeps bubbling then it must be coming from somewhere.

Title: Re: Overheating
Post by Andycan on Sep 18^th, 2011, 10:44pm

I will have a go at getting the bolts out of the thermostat housing tomorrow afternoon. By then they will have soaked in wd40 for 2 days.

Title: Re: Overheating
Post by Digger69 on Sep 19^th, 2011, 12:05am

Have you checked around the oil filler cap & dip stick? If the head has gone then you may detect water around these areas?

I got hold of a K series Freelander last week with a suspected head gasket problem with the same symptoms (bubling water in the header tank, header tank empty after 60 mile round trip, top hose hot, bottom hose cold, cold spots in rad, water temp gauge sitting at normal position).

I drained her (removed the hoses), did a rad flush, refilled & bled cooling systmem. Happy ending, air block & she is now fine.

With the Freelander there is two bleed valves (one on the hose feeding the head & another on the hose from the heater matrix).

I'd try that before doing anything else. Hopefully you will be as fortunate as me.

Fingers crossed!

Title: Re: Overheating
Post by Mike H on Sep 19^th, 2011, 10:22am

on 09/19/11 at 00:05:54, Digger69 wrote:

Have you checked around the oil filler cap & dip stick? If the head has gone then you may detect water around these areas?

Good tip, mixed with oil is like a creamy white sludge.

Quote:

drove 7 miles and my 2.0 scorpio started hissing water out of the header tank yet the gauge was on normal temp

What happened before this? I mean had it been working OK up to that point, or had you changed something, like disturb the cooling system e.g. renewed coolant

Title: Re: Overheating
Post by Andycan on Sep 19^th, 2011, 7:17pm

There doesn't seem to be any water or gunk in the oil. I haven't touched anything under the bonnet apart from putting insulation around the engine loom wires and replacing the spark plugs about 4 months ago along with rear discs and pads.

I managed to get 1 bolt off the stat housing today but the heads on the other 2 are so corroded that they are smaller than the spanners so will need to think of a way to get them off. I am going to leave the stat out when I can get to it and flush the system out tomorrow if I get time. I am sure the pump is ok as the water was circulating around the header tank when the temp gauge was on normal.

It could be that the antifreeze had deteriorated thus the engine not cooling properly.

Title: Re: Overheating
Post by Tompion on Sep 20^th, 2011, 12:25am

on 09/19/11 at 19:17:14, Andycan wrote:

I am sure the pump is ok as the water was circulating around the header tank when the temp gauge was on normal.

What do you mean by this? Water isn't supposed to circulate around the header tank. If it's coming via the small vent pipe into the header tank you may have a blocked rad.

Title: Re: Overheating
Post by Andycan on Sep 20^th, 2011, 9:07am

There was a slight current in the water in the header tank which I assumed was caused by warm water comming up the pipe from the engine and colder water from the header tank going down to the outlet pipe from the rad. It was only a slight movement.

Title: Re: Overheating
Post by Mike H on Sep 20^th, 2011, 4:17pm

Sorry to be obtuse ... ;D

Quote:

I haven't touched anything under the bonnet apart from putting insulation around the engine loom wires and replacing the spark plugs about 4 months ago along with rear discs and pads

But in the very first post you said:

Quote:

It could be a airlock where I filled it up

So prior to this event you have "disturbed" the cooling system then. http://livinginthepast-audioweb.co.uk/images/misc/th_scratchhead.gif

I'm assuming a refill? Or not ....

Title: Re: Overheating
Post by Andycan on Sep 20^th, 2011, 6:57pm

Sorry that was when it overheated as the water was pouring out the header tank overflow pipe.

Title: Re: Overheating
Post by Digger69 on Sep 21^st, 2011, 12:51am

Sounds hopeful, fingers crossed.

Certainly sounds very similar to my Freelander.

Title: Re: Overheating
Post by Andycan on Sep 21^st, 2011, 12:43pm

Well I got the stat out and it doesn't open up when it is put in boiling water for upto 15 minutes. Problem now is on getting the stat out the plastic housing bit got damaged Grrrrrr. Matt thinks he might have on if not I will have to order one from ford at a cost of around £80 Grrrrr.

Title: Re: Overheating
Post by Andycan on Sep 22^nd, 2011, 8:41am

I don't believe it The ford dealer I ordered new bolts from to fit the stat housing are saying despite their computer saying they had them they don't and that there aren't any in the uk. What a way to run a company but then again they have you on a bit of string as a lot of parts you can only get from them.

Title: Re: Overheating
Post by gozz on Sep 22^nd, 2011, 9:28am

Andy.
Just for the record,I ran a fleet of Scorps on funeral work,I have never bought a thermostat from Ford,always used factors pattern parts with no trouble,some say they don't fit,but mine always did.The stuck shut stat is not uncommon,I know of a man who replaced a 2.3 head gasket after overheating,only to have the same problem again,it was caused by the stat and it never occurred to him to check it.The bolts are nothing special and can be obtained from any nut and bolt source.
GOZZ.

Title: Re: Overheating
Post by Andycan on Sep 22^nd, 2011, 11:02am

Thanks I know Gozz it seemed easier to get them from ford as the supposedly had them in stock.

The ford dealers here in Louth are volvo dealers and only been ford dealers for a couple of years and have no idea about ford parts. The dealers in Grimsby and Sthingyhorpe use youngsters in the parts departments who haven't a clue what they are doing and don't remember cars more than 5 years old lol.

Title: Re: Overheating
Post by Mike H on Sep 22^nd, 2011, 4:52pm

OK so stat stuck shut, hence the boiling over. http://livinginthepast-audioweb.co.uk/images/misc/th_thumbsup.gif

Stat is jammed in housing, any evidence of hard water deposits?

Title: Re: Overheating
Post by Andycan on Sep 22^nd, 2011, 6:16pm

The stat is nice and clean and looks like new. The inside of the housing is like new as well. Can.t do anything now until I find another plastic top bit for it now. I hate waiting about and looking for parts.

Title: Re: Overheating
Post by Mike H on Sep 23^rd, 2011, 12:38pm

Sorry what's the plastic top bit?

http://livinginthepast-audioweb.co.uk/images/misc/Iamstupid.gif

Title: Re: Overheating
Post by Andycan on Sep 23^rd, 2011, 1:38pm

Well the stat goes in a hole inside metal which I assume is the housing then ontop of the stat a plastic cover goes on withe the coolant pipe going out of it to the rad and I don't know what that is called but it is that that I damaged whilst trying to get the fixing bolts out.

Sorry my brain runs slow nowadays and I do tend to forget things sometimes.

Title: Re: Overheating
Post by Mike H on Sep 23^rd, 2011, 5:31pm

Oh right OK

Title: Re: Overheating
Post by Andycan on Sep 25^th, 2011, 11:17am

Took her on a 35 mile run last night and the temp gauge stayed on normal all the way. Only thing now is the throttle is sticking when you press down on it, the n/s cam has started tapping and the break peddle judders and pushes up just as the car gets down to about 5mph when breaking.

It appears when I fix 1 problem 2 or 3 appear lol.

Title: Re: Overheating
Post by Mike H on Sep 25^th, 2011, 1:48pm

The latter relates to this doesn't it? Sounds like it thinks a wheel has stopped turnng (?) Dirty wheel sensors? There was a post a while ago about rust or rubbish on the toothed wheel bit causing problems (?)

on 09/12/11 at 19:24:45, Andycan wrote:

Thanks guys I forgot to mention my abs light has come on as well

Title: Re: Overheating
Post by Andycan on Sep 25^th, 2011, 6:14pm

Well the abs light has gone off but will probably come back on tomorrow so I know what I am going to be doing next week now. Still it gets me out of the house and is a good excuse to get dirty lol.

Title: Re: Overheating
Post by Stixy on Sep 25^th, 2011, 8:25pm

Fingers crossed its sorted for you Andy

Title: Heater Blower Relay swicth location?
Post by Scorpio_2.3-16VULT on Dec 22^nd, 2011, 1:02pm

moved by admin to HERE (http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=Problems;action=display;num=1324569029;start=0#0)