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Title: Petrol smells Post by Andycan on Oct 28th, 2011, 11:52am Hi when I start my 2 litre 16 valve scorpio it now starts to stink of petrol for about 30 seconds and then it disappears. The tickover is steady at 1000 rpm. Any ideas on what the problem is? Thanks Andy. |
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Title: Re: Petrol smells Post by Mike H on Oct 28th, 2011, 4:20pm Do you have a window or door open at the time? |
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Title: Re: Petrol smells Post by Andycan on Oct 28th, 2011, 5:05pm It is the same if I start it with the window open or closed. I can't see any leaks anywhere in the engine bay or underneath the car all the way back to the tank. |
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Title: Re: Petrol smells Post by Mike H on Oct 28th, 2011, 10:02pm Anybody else got any ideas? You could have someone outside have a sniff as well, might get a better clue? |
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Title: Re: Petrol smells Post by Andycan on Oct 29th, 2011, 12:06am It is bugging me as I was thinking as it only lasts 30 seconds or so that it might have been the fuel return pipe due to the choke being on. Could it be that somehow when I turn the ignition off that somehow there is excess fuel going somewhere it shouldn't? |
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Title: Re: Petrol smells Post by Jonnycab on Oct 29th, 2011, 3:31am Does it start on the button, or does it turn 2 or 3 times before firing ?.....if the latter, then possibly the fuel rail pressure regulator is sticking on start up :-/ Just a theory :) |
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Title: Re: Petrol smells Post by Andycan on Oct 29th, 2011, 11:04am She starts on the button which is why I am at a loss to find out why it is doing this. |
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Title: Re: Petrol smells Post by Simmo on Oct 29th, 2011, 11:07am Andy. Have you checked the filler neck and the top of the tank. There is a known problem with the seal on the top of the tank where the gauge is fitted. :) Try this page (http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/fuelsystem.htm) and select the relevant sections. :) |
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Title: Re: Petrol smells Post by Andycan on Oct 29th, 2011, 1:07pm Hi Simmo the seal is seeping a little but the fumes when starting seem to be comming from the front somewhere but I can't find out where. As it lasts less than a minute it has to be connected to starting up but the engine fires up as soon as you turn the key and ticks over as it should. |
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Title: Re: Petrol smells Post by Matt on Oct 29th, 2011, 1:35pm check the injectors around where then enter the cylinder head for wetness next is the temp sensor to the ECU (not the gauge one) if its faulty it will be telling the ecu the engine is not hot enough or to hot and it will be constantly adjusting the fuelling to try and find a happy place it could also just be the engine running richer now due to the cold weather on first start up ;) |
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Title: Re: Petrol smells Post by Mike H on Oct 29th, 2011, 1:43pm This might be a small fuel supply leak only when the pressure is up, in which case only making a record of the fuel consumption and comparing to previous (only you haven't got a previous if you haven't been keeping a record ;D ) to prove if it is. NB when you unscrew the fuel fillercap off it should hiss. Does it hiss? Just a thought, the injectors are not in the head but upstream before the inlet valves, just possible fumes are backing up the air intake system before it starts up fully. (?) Otherwise only time I can definitely remember smelling fuel fumes on starting up is when the old MAF was nacked, and the rest, so running a bit rich, but that was from exhaust pipe. Alhough if wind was blowing from the right direction could smell that from the front or maybe inside the car. |
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Title: Re: Petrol smells Post by Mike H on Oct 29th, 2011, 1:57pm Just thought of something else, I'm assuming it only does this when cold. Or does it do it every time including when hot? |
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Title: Re: Petrol smells Post by Andycan on Oct 29th, 2011, 9:32pm Hi Mike it is every time I start the car but strongest when it is cold. The fuel consumption is slightly up I think but I put that down to strong headwinds and rain lately. The smell is inside the car possibly comming through the air vents. Could it be inlet manifold gasket having a small leak that seals itself very quickly on startup? The smell is very very strong much worse than when you refuel at the pumps. I don't recollect a hiss from the fuel filler cap but then I haven't been listening for that. I will check when I refuel on Wednesday when I take her to Peterborough for a VIC test after someone split the back bumper in a carpark. |
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Title: Re: Petrol smells Post by Mike H on Oct 30th, 2011, 3:30pm The tank should be at lower pressure hence air hisses in when you begin to unscrew the plastic cap. It is quite a noticeable noise. Unless you're hard of hearing of course, I don't know. Or it's all beginning to suggest a leak so all fuel lines and unions need examining. Or, possible tank could have a hole in it as well, which would explain the no pressure difference (no hiss). |
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Title: Re: Petrol smells Post by Mike H on Oct 30th, 2011, 3:33pm PS: you don't have to wait until next time you refill, provided you've hitherto used the car just try unscrewing it ;D PPS: maybe something about it will show up in the VIC test! Summink not right somewhere anyway |
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Title: Re: Petrol smells Post by Andycan on Oct 30th, 2011, 9:39pm The car is staying put until the vic check. Where is the temp sensor to the ecu? Looked at the injectors today but couldn't see where they went into the engine block very well but will have another look tomorrow if it doesn't rain too hard. |
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Title: Re: Petrol smells Post by Tompion on Oct 30th, 2011, 11:07pm The injector rail bolts onto the inlet manifold. Its location & that of the ECT can be seen on pages 7 & 8 here: http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/manual/engines/dohc16v/DOHC16VCHead.pdf |
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Title: Re: Petrol smells Post by Andycan on Oct 30th, 2011, 11:10pm Thanks Tompion |
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Title: Re: Petrol smells Post by Mike H on Oct 31st, 2011, 12:54pm We're assuming that's where the leak is, may not be, I still suspect pipes and joints. Fumes tend to waft upwards so will seem like coming from the engine bay. The fact that the smell disappears after 30 secs may just be because your nose has ceased to smell it any more. Have you done the filler cap hiss test yet? Will only make sense after engine has been running though. |
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Title: Re: Petrol smells Post by Andycan on Nov 2nd, 2011, 1:55pm Hi I can't hear a hiss from the petrol filler cap but then I am getting hard of hearing in my old age lol. I have teken the plastic cover off between the 2 ohc and found 1 of the spark plug caps had popped up about 1mm and I have sprayed all the wiring and coils with wd40. This seems to have made the petrol smell less strong. I will check the petrol pipes in the engine bay as soon as I can find them in amongst all the other pipes and wires. |
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Title: Re: Petrol smells Post by Tompion on Nov 2nd, 2011, 2:24pm Did you check how tight the spark plugs were, they are prone to coming loose – could cause the smell. |
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Title: Re: Petrol smells Post by Andycan on Nov 2nd, 2011, 3:29pm I didn't have a long enough socket on me but I did replace the sparkplugs a couple of months ago so maybe they have worked loose. I will check. |
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Title: Re: Petrol smells Post by Mike H on Nov 2nd, 2011, 3:56pm Spark plug was coming unscrewed? Did you retighten it? |
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Title: Re: Petrol smells Post by Andycan on Nov 2nd, 2011, 4:57pm No Mike one of the ht lead clips that clip onto the sparkplug wasn't on properly. No 1 and 3 plugs are in tight and I will check the other 2 tomorrow in the light. |
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Title: Re: Petrol smells Post by Mike H on Nov 2nd, 2011, 7:53pm So it could just be loose plugs after all letting fumes out, that would do it I guess. |
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Title: Re: Petrol smells Post by Andycan on Nov 3rd, 2011, 10:47am All plugs checked and are as tight as can be. On starting it thismorning I stood outside the car with the bonnet up to see if I could spot anything. There was no smell in the engine bay but it sounded as if one cylinder was missing every now and again for about 2 minutes then it started running as sweet as a nut. I will try it again a bit later. |
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Title: Re: Petrol smells Post by Tompion on Nov 3rd, 2011, 12:06pm Have you checked there are no missing bungs between the engine compartment and the cabin or between the engine compartment & the area in front of the windscreen & between that area & the cabin. Also that the aircon drains are in place (engine bay smells that may be worse at start up are likely to be drawn in otherwise). Do you get the smell regardless of whether the heating/ventilation is on or off. |
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Title: Re: Petrol smells Post by Andycan on Nov 4th, 2011, 4:00pm Can't see any bungs missing. Not sure where the aircon drains are. The smell is there when the blowers are on or off. having said that the aircon comes on as soon as you start the car to circulate the cool air across the windows to stop them misting up. |
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Title: Re: Petrol smells Post by Mike H on Nov 4th, 2011, 11:59pm Just gone back over from the beginning. Still think it might be pipe / pipe joints or a leak in the tank. We still haven't got a positive filler cap "hiss" test. Although if the tank can't maintain low pressure it's supposed to cause a fast idle (?) If so needs a proper look underneath while it's up on a hoist preferably. May be possible to turn it on (fuel pump running) and see if any "wet" shows up. I'm just guessing. Unfortunately petrol leaks can be so difficult to spot because of course it evaporates away easily. Also found these other threads same problem: http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=Advice;action=display;num=1146218258 http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=Problems;action=display;num=1186729449 Post #7 on this one: http://www.avforums.com/forums/motoring/363927-petrol-fumes-my-car.html I Googled 'ford scorpio petrol smell' HTH |
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Title: Re: Petrol smells Post by Andycan on Nov 22nd, 2011, 7:11am Thanks mike stixy recons it might be the injectors. Sorry for the delay in the reply but I am and have been very busy lately with the misses deciding to have a very bad mental breakdown that she can't admit to and the doc's say they can't do anything until she does so now I am reaching the same point. |
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Title: Re: Petrol smells Post by dave44 on Nov 22nd, 2011, 6:18pm Similar problem I had on one of our estate cars last year. It turned outto be pin hole perforations at top of fuel tank. This was due to old age and "water"or dampness sitting on top of tank where it is shaped to sit under spare wheel carrier area.Might explain slightly high fuel consumption because of evaporation, and apparent disappearance when travelling asfumes go "back" ascar goes forward. Hope last sentance makes sense and remarks are helpful. |
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Title: Re: Petrol smells Post by Mike H on Nov 22nd, 2011, 9:00pm Yes I keep coming back around to hole(s) in the tank as well, doesn't mean it's dripping on the floor necessarily, but can be somewhere near the top above the fuel level like Dave says. Think there was a topic a while ago about one that been reversed into a grassy bank that split a tank seam, he could only fill it about halfway else it might dribble out IIRC. Or something like that |
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Title: Re: Petrol smells Post by Andycan on Nov 26th, 2011, 4:45pm Thanks I shall check it out as soon as I can |
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Title: Re: Petrol smells Post by Mike H on Nov 26th, 2011, 8:31pm There is of course the 'hiss test' don't forget ;D |
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Title: Re: Petrol smells Post by Mike H on Nov 28th, 2011, 8:57pm Literally just come across something on the Moto Guzzi forum ~ modern fuels, as in last few years, have had increasing amounts of ethanol added which is corrosive to older spec fuel hose. "If there is a stink of petrol, but you can't find a leak, then it is very likely that vapour is permeating through the fuel hose" - info trawled from US web sources apparently. Unmarked hose - will probably be for the original petrol formula, without modern additives (but see later comments). SAE 30R6 - This is the standard for the petrol formula of 5 - 10 years ago, for fuel injection. The bore may or may not be lined with Nitrile. SAE 30R7 - This is the standard for the petrol formula of 2 or 3 years ago, for fuel injection. The bore is lined with Nitrile. SAE 30R9 / 30R10 - This is the current standard. The bore is lined with Fluoroelastomer/Nitrile. 30R9 has Fluoroelastomer/Nitrile on the inside, while 30R10 has it inside and out, which allows it to be used immersed in petrol (e.g. in a fuel tank). US sources suggest 30R10 for injection systems (30R9 for carburettors) "One of the causes of fuel pipe failure described in the USA literature is stale modern fuel, not so much the fuel itself. These fuels become extra-corrosive when they get old." A cited e-mail conversation between Eurocarb and the Dell'Orto agents in the UK include the following hint: "According to Dell'Orto the standard amounts of ethanol will not affect the carburettor internals. I would avoid supermarket fuels though as these seem to have a higher content." |
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Title: Re: Petrol smells Post by Andycan on Nov 28th, 2011, 10:01pm OMG so even the petrol companies are trying to kill our cars off. |
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Title: Re: Petrol smells Post by amigafan2003 on Nov 29th, 2011, 12:29pm on 11/28/11 at 22:01:56, Andycan wrote:
You'd have thought they'd love to keep our 24v's on the road! |
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Title: Re: Petrol smells Post by Mike H on Dec 9th, 2011, 2:42pm on 11/26/11 at 16:45:55, Andycan wrote:
Any more news on this? |
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Title: Re: Petrol smells Post by nickaprilia on Jan 8th, 2012, 11:03pm Hi I had a similar problem....turned out to be the green 'o' ring had split in half at the rear of the fuel rail, where the tank feed pipe and fuel rail pipes merge. there is what looks like a small filter held in place by two bolts, when removed you can check the condition of the seal. |
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Title: Re: Petrol smells Post by Mike H on Jan 9th, 2012, 1:00pm Good tip http://livinginthepast-audioweb.co.uk/images/misc/th_thumbsup.gif |
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